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A Stench Permeates The Internet

manufactured grassroots, disinfo, and insidious marketing

A Stench Permeates The Internet

Unread postby socrates » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:34 pm

(cross-posted from DFQ2)

Let's segue from Jeff Wells' lame disinfo campaign back to the one that has afflicted the election integrity movement. Since they are clearly connected through Andy Stephenson, it's not such an outrageous leap from one to the other.

An anonymous source has tipped me off to an association between VoteTrustUSA and a data mining titan named ChoicePoint. He pointed me in the direction of two archived Democratic Underground threads.


No Excuses on ChoicePoint: A Threat to Our Constitution and Freedom

Greg Palast Responds re Land Shark ER Post on ChoicePoint/Private KGB!


It could be easily argued that ChoicePoint had as much to do with GW Bush's stealing of the 2000 election than any other factor. Tens of thousands of predominantly African-American citizens were unduly purged from the voter rolls. However, when it came to the attention of the election integrity crowd at DU that there were wolves in the henhouse, a surprising development ensued. Instead of folks becoming concerned with their movement being compromised, they turned their claws on reporter Greg Palast for having been the one doing the exposing.

It has been noted before that without paystubs, it's impossible to know whether one is a paid disinfo agent, or if somebody has been merely prodded into moving with the conformist herd. A lot of internet convolution may have more to do with psychology 101 than any deliberately placed provocation. It's human nature to want to believe in people who appear to be fighting for the common good. I fell for that trap in regards to Brad Friedman of BradBlog. The phrase concern troll applies. One effective at that has the strong ability to make one appear as a good guy, while the whole time that person has actually been working on bahalf of their own interests or perhaps even towards the undermining of positive, social movement.


A Quick Look At ChoicePoint

There was an interesting article in The Progressive from August 13th, 2003 written by John Ross. I was unable to find a direct link to that excellent expose, but it can be read here. It will give you an example of what ChoicePoint represents.

VoteTrust USA is described as a project of the Verified Voting Foundation. One of its co-founders was Andy Stephenson.


ImageImage


VoteTrustUSA and their sychophants from DU came up with the typical defenses, that the connection between ChoicePoint and VTUSA was not that strong. That this was a McCarthyite type smear. That whoop-de-doo, someone with ties to ChoicePoint made a donation. That this didn't prove ChoicePoint had any influence on their election integrity activities.

However, the following written by Donna Curling was never properly explained (to my satisfaction anyway).

I am Donna Curling, wife of Doug Curling, President of Choicepoint. When the California Election Protection Network’s comments were posted back in November, I went to my husband to discuss us possibly working together to see if we could not address this problem once and for all. I discussed the problem with Roxanne Jekot, whom I work closely with on a daily basis, and with Joan Krawitz and Warren Stewart, both of whom I have worked with and traveled with to DC. I also serve on the Board of Vote Trust USA and help fund many projects.

Strangely enough, Mark Crispin Miller has deleted the following from his website. It is now only available through cache. Two very interesting comments were left.

A statement from VoteTrustUSA

Comment by Anonymous on July 26, 2006 @ 1:06 pm

Please give it a break. You were caught pushing a coordinated message on Choicepoint. The message for those who don’t know is: Choicepoint bought DBT after they completed the Jeb Bush-Katherine Harris Florida felon purge software. Choicepoint had nothing to do with it.

How strange can election integrity activism get?

That’s why people in your organizaiton had to apologize.

So was Choicepoint responsible even a tiny little bit for the felon purge? How about a statement on that?


Comment by Anonymous on July 26, 2006 @ 1:36 pm

Anonymous only puts part of the picture out, though accurate as far as it goes in describing the coordinated defenses of choicepoint that came out after choicepoint’s president’s wife became an involved funder of many VTUSA projects (as she said in writing) and even claimed to be on the board of VTUSA (in writing), though VTUSA later said there is no board in VTUSA at all. How Mrs. Choicepoint came to be think she was in a top leadership post at VTUSA but that it was not “the Board” is not known and has not been explained, though Mrs. Curling did state under her name dmac on Democraticunderground.com that her confusion, in this regard, was “legitimate.”

Beyond the failure of Choicepoint to consider the disfranchisement of the vast majority of 97,000 people to be important enough to issue a recall (like we would for a manufacturing defect in a cheap plastic toy) give that Choicepoint had from May 2000 to November 2000 to issue the equivalent of a recall to correct the situation, there is an ever more important issue:

How can an activist organization credibly push for transparency, when the organization itself does not publicly disclose the funding and control that it receives from shareholders of Choicepoint, who happen also to be a spouse of the President of Choicepoint? How can it maintain that lack of transparency, and at the very same time have its members take positions and actions to defend choicepoint using false or misleading facts? Even after apologizing for falsely stating that Greg Palast was lying in asserting Choicepoint’s culpability for Florida 2000, Is this an organization that can be trusted to lead the fight for transparency in elections? VTUSA is STILL NOT disclosing the full nature of its ties and funding with Donna Curling, the spouse of Choicepoint’s president Doug Curling and a shareholder in Choicepoint.


Those who have followed my unpaid blogging are well-aware of my efforts to expose Brett Kimberlin, Velvet Revolution, and BradBlog for their propagation of unsubstantiated gobbledygook. Much of what they have pumped out has unfortunately overshadowed real issues to do with ensuring election integrity. Worst case scenario is they have turned a real issue into appearing as tinfoil conspiracy theory. Of course, feel free to make a donation to Brad and Brett. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

VTUSA can easily be connected to BradBlog through John Gideon. John was one of Brad's top bloggers for a substantial period of time. He was also a bigwig for VTUSA.

Image


The Richard Armitage Connection

It turns out that the Deputy Secretary of State during the first Bush Administration was the former Director of ChoicePoint.

According to Toni Solo:

Data abuse--the Choicepoint link It is hard to get precise details on who is selling Choicepoint this confidential information. [15] But some idea of the use to be made of all that data can be inferred from the role envisaged by John Poindexter for his Total Information Awareness program (TIA) in the developing John Ashcroft police state. While Poindexter, convicted of lying to Congress during the Iran Contra hearings, may be off the public scene after the DARPA "terrorism futures" fiasco, TIA soldiers on under different guises, like the MATRIX program in various US states, notably Florida.

Richard Armitage, one of the Iran-Contra plotters, was a board member of Database Technologies (DBT)/ChoicePoint Inc before taking office under George Bush Jr. Now he is Colin Powell's deputy Secretary of State. Choicepoint is a partner of data mining company SAIC whose web site proclaims it has "developed a strategic alliance with ChoicePoint Incorporated to provide our clients with quick and effortless information retrieval from public records data. ChoicePoint Incorporated maintains thousands of gigabytes of public records data."[16] SAIC's clients include The U.S. Army National Guard and Reserve, United States Marine Corps and BP Amoco. Before becoming Secretary of State, Donald Rumsfeld was on BP Amoco's advisory board.

Now feel free to go back to the original DU threads, and ask yourselves why the few messengers were attacked so much. One might even proceed to make a list based on which posters wrote what. You could make two columns, one for potential wolves and the other for truth seekers.

related link- (scroll down): Choicepoint President Funds Secretary of State Candidate Scott Holcomb in Georgia
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Makes you appreciate "Fight Club"

Unread postby knowledgable » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:29 pm

"Fight Club" was right on target. Nothing happened to resolve the problem until the protagonist(s) stopped fighting with themselves.

Maybe that's the larger truth that you are getting at here. Why wouldn't the control freaks in the government do bottom up work with "grassroots" organizations looking at the new technology of elections? They cared enough about ChoicePoint to put their #1 enforcer, Armitage, on ChoicePoint's board. What would it take to start up/infiltrate the tiny movement.

What appears from your analysis is a hierarchy of organizations and people who form the basis for useful myths. These myths that lead some to believe that "activism" may actually accomplish something while, in fact, those calling the tune control the activists one way or another.

From a cost - benefit point of view, the results of elections are worth trillions, literally. Why not make a heavy investment in making sure the control of those elections is masked. Control the "activists" and you control the dialog. The various actors can enter and leave the stage as scripted and what do we know?

Life is a carnival ... or maybe seedy side show.
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Re: Makes you appreciate "Fight Club"

Unread postby socrates » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:01 pm

knowledgable wrote:"Fight Club" was right on target. Nothing happened to resolve the problem until the protagonist(s) stopped fighting with themselves.


Thanks for the post and welcome to the forum. I actually don't mind the concept of fight club or a way for those in conflict to get things off their chest. The problem occurs when fight clubs are rigged. Both DU and Daily Kos have been proven to be rigged fight clubs. DKos is a mere shell of what it once was thanks to the fine sleuthing of Francis Holland and then Dave Weintraub. DU thought it was being clever over the years by excessive scrubbing and pruning. Since the reader decides, it is ultimately seen that the admins there are hiding the decision process.

During my final months at BradBlog, I brought up this fact about DU. I used Kathy Dopp as an example. Brad's response was to send me personal emails between Kathy and himself. I thought he had sent them by accident. He said no, that he wanted me to see that she had been appropriately banned by DU. Well, anyone can go through her exit from DU and see that her posts were deleted. Thus, there's no way to know what she did that broke a rule.

Brad wanted me to think DU was on the up and up, since he has it good with them. They used to frontpage his crap even before he became a member or well-known by anyone. He knows where his bread is buttered. He also mentioned Bev Harris as being someone who deserved to be banned. Brad was trying too hard to shape my perceptions of DU. It was a classic methinks thee doth protest too much situation.

BradBlog in itself has no credibility with its own moderating practices. Its moderator can be directly tied to right woos left neonazi propaganda. By the way, Brad ended up sharing my personal info with a cyberstalker, a fairly well-known username involved in the spreading of internet convolution. Brad Friedman is not to be trusted with anyone's personal info.

Maybe that's the larger truth that you are getting at here. Why wouldn't the control freaks in the government do bottom up work with "grassroots" organizations looking at the new technology of elections? They cared enough about ChoicePoint to put their #1 enforcer, Armitage, on ChoicePoint's board. What would it take to start up/infiltrate the tiny movement.


I believe the dam has broken open with the Hal Turner story. He has clearly been on the FBI payroll, and as he puts it was drawing out the crazies. Now we know why he was able to put up links to bomb making recipes and never get charged, while someone like Sherman Austin who never posted such a thing got railroaded by Diane Feinstein for that very thing. I think people are naive, if they think Hal Turner has been the only FBI employee working the internet. I also want to point out my belief that most FBI agents are probably on the up and up. I am not so paranoid to believe they are fully out of control. I would like to see them clean up their own house. Same with police. Codes of silence need to be shunned, and the rule of law should be evenly applied to everyone.

In regards to the Michael Connell threatened by Karl Rove hoax, I would like to see the FBI investigate the small info loop which has been pushing that nonsense. That would include Arnebeck, Kimberlin, Friedman, and Alexandrovna. Probably a few more. But those seem to be the biggest names that keep showing up. Now if someone can be charged for calling in a fake bomb threat to say a school or if a fake report is dialed in to 911, why shouldn't the same be done to those four people? I believe Kimberlin is actually still on parole with 35 years left on his domestic terrorism sentence. If he has violated that parole, he should be returned to prison.

What appears from your analysis is a hierarchy of organizations and people who form the basis for useful myths. These myths that lead some to believe that "activism" may actually accomplish something while, in fact, those calling the tune control the activists one way or another.


I have been quite lucky with my sleuthing. I have been able to connect various internet personalities working together to create zeitgeists. One such individual is Tinoire. She used to post a lot at DU. She has been close to Andy Stephenson's close friend, Jeff Wells of Rigorous Intuition. She moved on to create a website named Progressive Independent. She can be directly tied to Michael Rivero and Wayne Madsen. Rivero can be directly tied to Alex Jones. This is only the tip of the iceberg.

Tinoire has gone from being a "Jew hater" to an ideological communist over the last year. However, not only has she been close buddies with Michael Rivero, himself closely affiliated with holocaust deniers and crazy conspiracy theories, she registered Republican to vote for Ron Paul. That doesn't sound very left wing to me. Last year, I was able to track down a post she made from years ago admitting to having worked in military intelligence. I can tie Rivero directly to McDonnell Douglas. Anyway, it looks like Tinoire is about to white wall her Progressive Independent website. The folks there are spinning it as Tinoire could be in some kind of personal trouble, as she has disappeared. I believe she has been exposed as an internet fraud, and that when this type of thing takes place, out comes the scrub brush. She was directly involved in the absurd cybersmear script put in place against me. But he who laughs last, laughs best. Same thing is happening between Brad and Larisa with myself. They are now mere shells from their previous facades of having credibility. Meanwhile, I have decided to embrace their depiction of me as being the historic troll, since as time goes on, nearly everything I have posted has turned out to be the truth. It is a beautiful thing that the reader decides. 8)

From a cost - benefit point of view, the results of elections are worth trillions, literally. Why not make a heavy investment in making sure the control of those elections is masked. Control the "activists" and you control the dialog. The various actors can enter and leave the stage as scripted and what do we know?

Life is a carnival ... or maybe seedy side show.


I wish I had a better grasp of the specifics of election fraud. I guess my specialty has been the ability to suss out who are not to be trusted and get that info out to real EI activists. I believe the disinfo surrounding EI is only one part of the overall story, albeit a major one over the previous decade. I believe the chickens are coming home to roost for election integrity fakes. They can run, but they cannot hide. I do not agree with Joseph Lauria that major media will not be interested in the truth behind the Michael Connell hoax. Uhm, one last idea, back to the prospect of PI shutting down. There has been a poster named TruthIsAll who has gotten heavily into the statistics of exit polls and whatnot. He has had PI as a home since 2005. He seems a bit worried that some of his data could be lost. I am not sure if he has actually proven anything, as statistics aren't my background. But one thing I learned about Hertzberg was that he was eager to dismiss the claims that exit polls were showing anything of merit. Same modus operandi as Lindeman (ontheotherhand) and Febble, I forget her real name. Those last two by the way have no background in statistics yet were quite arrogant over the years in dismissing the use of exit polls in uncovering election fraud. One of the worst aspects to do with this apparent subversion of democratic processes is that it becomes difficult to know who to trust. It is beyond my abilities to figure out Truthisall's schtick.

I actually stopped posting all my threads on this forum. My more recent stuff concerning EI can be found at davefromqueens2.blogspot. Uhm, one link I came across which you might want to check out, if you haven't already, is:

http://jqjacobs.net/politics/ohio.html
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Re: Democratic Underground No Better Than Daily Kos

Unread postby socrates » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:19 pm

Top blogger thrown off mainstream democratic site for posting truth around the Coakley situation

A poster named debbierlus at DU made almost 8,000 posts. She got banned, because she openly questioned whether she was going to vote for Martha Coakley in the special election for Ted Kennedy's seat. She was either going to vote for her or not vote at all. Apparently that broke DU's rule asking that members support Democratic candidates. Fine. Whatever. However, a look at a few DU threads concerning her banning shows how corrupt that forum is.

I wonder where debbierlus went to...

Troll comments are everywhere, yet no one is admonished by an administrator.

FSogol: Abstaining from voting = a vote for the Repub. n/t

WeDidIt: Andy Martin calls himself an "Internet Powerhouse" So looks like the tombstoned wretch the OP references and an anti-semitic Birther have something in common.

HBravo: I guess you have never heard of 'eat your own.'

alcibiades_mystery: I'm glad her nonsenses finally cost her. She posted claptrap and nonsenses She did not post a positive thread after her idol Edwards stepped out of the race. The fact that Edwards was her idol tells you all you need to know about her judgment.

Violet_Crumble: She sounds like a complete drama queen... How many more people is she going to get to come and post links to her whining?

HiFructosePronSyrup: Stormfront? Image

The crew at DU sounds very similar to the UGOGs and other vigilante moderator crews who have ruined the Daily Kos. What lurkers don't realise is such packs have the full approval of top administrators. These forums are basically rigged. When someone is banned at DU, it is called a tombstone. AT DKos, the big sendoff is a waving cat. Image At DU, the "state-sponsored" trolls dance over the graves of those "tombstoned."
WeDidIt: Posting it was pure agenda. And it will be locked. Meanwhile, we dance...

Here's a second DU thread written by someone who didn't understand why a leading member had been banned. The same "state sponsored" trolling was evident.

Has a leading liberal DU poster "debbierlus " been removed and banned from Democratic Underground?


HiFructosePronSyrup: debbierlus was the worst sort of freeper scum. And won't be missed by anybody that matters.... Debbierlus's progressivism was a phony as a three dollar bill.... It's not my fault your buddy was a freeper. Get over it.

HughMoran: I couldn't agree more. What a hate-filled poster she was - her garbage was just awful and tore the party down for no good reason - there was no positives to be found in her constant assaults on Obama & the Dems.

Spazito: LOL, yes, her 'truthiness' is well known.... and the mods and admins owe you nothing. I have NO doubt she knows exactly why she was tombstoned but, being the drama queen she is, would claim victimhood yet again.


These people sound like paid fakes. They sound exactly like the same losers at Daily Kos. It is as if they are working out of propaganda manuals. Moderators never ban anyone unfairly. No one of importance was banned. She was a freeper, no more real than a three-dollar bill.

Michael Fingerit of the UGOGs was busted by Dave Weintraub. It turned out he was also a moderator at DU. Fancy that.

It also turned out he was involved with some sort of "election integrity" in New York. He turned out to be an associate of Larisa Alexandrovna. I don't believe this was a coincidence. Lest we forget he originally went after Dave Weintraub for having had the gall to confront right wing frauds coming out of Long Island, where by chance is Fingerit's home.


One of Andy Stephenson's close friends is now a moderator at DU, someone who goes by the username of greatauntoftriplets. She locked this thread because someone used the phrase son of a bitch. According to her, that was sexist language. That's an example of how fight clubs at these forums are rigged. It's ok for sponsored trolls to post whatever they want, but rules will be twisted to take care of any real progressives who speak too much truth to fake left.

This thread looked like it could have been an interesting one to figure out. It was titled, "Ellie Light: Obama Astroturfer? Or Very, Very, Very Energetic But Independent Letter Writer? With Houses All Over the Nation?"

Another ploy used by the thought police is to turn a good thread into a flame war. It gives the mods a fake reason to delete and/or lock a thread. I'm not sure exactly what was up with this specific story, but it would have been nice to find out the merits of it. Instead, it devolved into attacks on the topic for it linking to right leaning websites. Basically, it is pretty clear that DU and DKos are nothing more than cheerleader squads for the Democratic Leadership Committee, of fake lefties who have driven true progressives to the fringes of the political dinner table. We are talking triangulation at its most cynical.
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