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About myself: originally Isard

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About myself: originally Isard

Unread postby Isard » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:01 pm

Hi Socrates and other posters and visitors,

Thank you very much for letting me in. I am a "silent" reader of this forum since many months ago.
I am personally located in Navarra, Spain, although I have lived many years in the South American cone (River Plate).

Also trying to find out the truth on chemtrails...
Concerning orgonite, I have never tried it, and just wonder if it really has any effects or not. Is Mr. Reich a hoax?
Maybe Croftians just want to make money of it, but then why publishing the designs to make it at home?

I was personally invited to leave CTC because of mentioning orgonite (received an e-mail from an administrator, "not that stuff here please").
That is the reason I disappeared from there (and obviously also, I found your forum, so I realized of the CTC disinfo).
But if CTC is disinformation, why silencing this topic? Why telling me to shut up?

That is what I find strange.

Anyway, I totally agree with your views, and your direct focus on the chemtrails issue.

Now I am also posting at a recently created Spanish forum. Most people are OK (no discussions on the existence or not of chemtrails), even if some believe about possible aliens, etc... (I do not).

As I lived my childhood in Uruguay, I now perfectly chemtrails are NOT natural.
The first time I saw them was about 1995, when I first came to Europe. Then, I just thought "well, First World, much more planes in the sky...".

In Uruguay no chemtrails, but same effects as in other regions (drought, abnormal climate for the season...), mainly since the 1990s.
I think maybe it is not necessary to spray the chemicals right above a region to produce the effects. Or maybe it is mainly HAARP and other ionosferic heaters (including cell phone antennas), which cause most of the effects (chemtrails being an enforcer)?

Will post again as soon as I have anything interesting.

Thanks again for letting me in. Hope I will help

Isard
8)
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Isard
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Posts: 59
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Location: Uruguay

Re: About myself: originally Isard

Unread postby socrates » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:02 pm

[quote="Isard"]

Thank you very much for letting me in. I am a "silent" reader of this forum since many months ago.
I am personally located in Navarra, Spain, although I have lived many years in the South American cone (River Plate).


Welcome to the forum. I hope you don't mind, I changed your username to Isard. It was smart of you not to come in as Isard, because yeah, I admit I probably wouldn't have activated your account. But this doesn't mean I think you are a fake. I was duped myself by Swampgas, the former CTC moderator, and by Lou Aubuchont and even by Wayne Hall for a shorter period. This occurs because the script is set up to pit "debunkers" against "believers." The script was devised so we would psychologically end up seeing Jay Reynolds and other nasty people as being the problem. That would keep us from questioning the intentions too much of the "believers." The script intends for those of us who want to participate on the forums to eventually give up and go away. The script called for a rotating flow of real people to arrive and then leave.

But things have gotten so dicey for the chemtrail forum fakes at Chemtrail Central, that registration there has been closed for the last year and a half except for a few months. Myself and may41970 were so persistent in calling them out, that a cyber bullying campaign was put in place to try to discredit us. But it has failed miserably.

This place has been set up so that the top section is to remain as tinfoil free as possible. I don't mind if the conspiro-tainment type stuff is posted in this part of the forum. I admit I have had a quick trigger with the bannings. There are a few I shouldn't have banned, such as yoyos, banta, and DG. If they want to come back, they are more than welcomed. The rest, however, I feel I did the right thing. Those others clearly showed no appreciation that there has been the tinfoil by association script in place to make us look like some kind of hoax cult.


Also trying to find out the truth on chemtrails...
Concerning orgonite, I have never tried it, and just wonder if it really has any effects or not. Is Mr. Reich a hoax?
Maybe Croftians just want to make money of it, but then why publishing the designs to make it at home?


I don't know if orgone is real or not. What I mean is, perhaps there is a way to alter the weather in one's immediate area. Yet, I tend to doubt it. My thinking is that even if those chembusters work, which I do doubt, I can't see how it would ever make a difference, that it would devastate any type of chemtrails program. An analogy I have is with the gun zealots who think an armed citizenry could have any type of chance turning back a fascist, police state. Or maybe chembusters are like trying to stop an enemy with spitballs. Or maybe it is like pissing into the wind. I simply don't buy into it.

Wilhelm Reich was not a hoax. He was one of the greatest social theorists of the twentieth century.He was anti-fascism. He was pro-people and humanity. His most famous work was The Mass Psychology of Fascism. Most of the book is considered a classic. At the end is where he delved into this idea of orgone. If you know anything about the works of Freud, that dude spoke of eros versus death. He wrote of the two competing forces. He said we needed to sublimate the negative into positives.

Now Don Croft, imho, is a hoax. A long time back, I tried to sign up at Rigorous Intuition. I was fed up with the chemtrails presentation at that forum run by a "Jeff Wells." Don Croft's sister, MaryKMusic and brother-in-law, "Dragon," were posting the craziest ****. I made a post at Megasprayer once letting Chem11 know about this and how Jeff Wells was doing damage to chemtrails awareness. Chem11 took that as an opportunity to boost the credibility of Jeff Wells. I'll never forget that response he made. That was when I started to think Chem11 was full of ****.

That's a good point you make about the profit factor. Why would Croft give instructions which would cut into his profits to be made off of gullible people? Look at Chemtrail Central. There aren't any ads. For all the volume of visitors they get, there doesn't seem to be any commercial benefit for the disinfo peddler owner named Mark Steadham. Or check out Godlike Productions. They seem to get an incredible amount of volume too but have next to no ads or apparent revenue. When one goes to the Whois, there is no good info on who owns the place. So a logical question is what is the point of that place? On another thread in this section, I have shown that Godlike Productions advertises itself as being about the lunatic fringe and that they don't discriminate against the mentally ill. In my honest opinion, all these places are set up to be tinfoil by association.

These places are all over. There is Tom Flocco, EducateYourself, WhatDoesItMean, CloakAndDagger, BreakForNews, RumorMillNews, and tons of other domains making the internet look like a loony bin. EducateYourself, Chemtrail Central, and most chemtrail forums make chemtrails look like a hoax. And most of them don't seem to be about making a profit. So common sense tells me that these places have been established to be rabbit holes and dead ends.



I was personally invited to leave CTC because of mentioning orgonite (received an e-mail from an administrator, "not that stuff here please").
That is the reason I disappeared from there (and obviously also, I found your forum, so I realized of the CTC disinfo).
But if CTC is disinformation, why silencing this topic? Why telling me to shut up?

That is what I find strange.


Is there a way you could take a screenshot of that email and post it here? Maybe you could at least copy and paste the e-mail? I find it a bit hard to believe this, nothing personal, because "Louis Aubuchont" and others have posted about the orgone stuff. And if you are telling the truth, then it is strange that a CTC moderator would ask you to refrain from such postings. Lou and others have posted about wiping out chemclouds or small clouds with the power of their own minds. Ellyn posts the most ridiculous disinfo that exists. Weatherman714 also posts a lot of crazy thoughts. I am finding it difficult to believe your story. A screenshot of that email would be greatly appreciated.



Anyway, I totally agree with your views, and your direct focus on the chemtrails issue.

Now I am also posting at a recently created Spanish forum. Most people are OK (no discussions on the existence or not of chemtrails), even if some believe about possible aliens, etc... (I do not).


On our cable television, one can view plenty of crap shows on alien abductions, but next to nothing on chemtrails. That to me is somewhat proof that chemtrails are real. Why have there been all these shows on big foot, ufo's, loch ness, etc. yet next to nothing on chemtrails. It seems that we in the States have had two newscasts devoted to chemtrails, the one from KNBC Los Angeles and the one from KSLA Louisiana. Then there is that one Discovery Channel show.

The only way chemtrails will be exposed and stopped is if the ******** conspiro-tainment is left out of the presentation. Most people really do want to figure things out, whether it is election fraud, chemtrails, or whatnot. I honestly believe that people are sick of reading *******, scripted debates that do not allow for the participation of sincere people. Sometimes it is fun to surf the web and read some of the crapola. But when it comes down to it, I think most really want to know what is going on. The ******** makes it impossible for chemtrails to be taken seriously.

As I lived my childhood in Uruguay, I now perfectly chemtrails are NOT natural.
The first time I saw them was about 1995, when I first came to Europe. Then, I just thought "well, First World, much more planes in the sky...".


1995? That would make you perhaps the first person to have witnessed them. :?




I think maybe it is not necessary to spray the chemicals right above a region to produce the effects. Or maybe it is mainly HAARP and other ionosferic heaters (including cell phone antennas), which cause most of the effects (chemtrails being an enforcer)?

Will post again as soon as I have anything interesting.

Thanks again for letting me in. Hope I will help

Isard
8)


Weather moves. This is a small world.

I'm not sure what you mean about cell phone antennas or what you mean by chemtrails being an "enforcer." Are you saying you think chemtrails are about mind control?

I want you to come out and say exactly what you are thinking. Maybe there is a language barrier here. I am having trouble reconciling your statement that you agree with us here with some of what you have posted. I would also like to see that email you said the CTC admin sent you. Thanks.
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Re: About myself: originally Isard

Unread postby Isard » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:36 am

Hi Socrates,
Sorry for my late reply.

[quote="socrates"]
This place has been set up so that the top section is to remain as tinfoil free as possible. I don't mind if the conspiro-tainment type stuff is posted in this part of the forum. I admit I have had a quick trigger with the bannings. There are a few I shouldn't have banned, such as yoyos, banta, and DG. If they want to come back, they are more than welcomed. The rest, however, I feel I did the right thing. Those others clearly showed no appreciation that there has been the tinfoil by association script in place to make us look like some kind of hoax cult.


I agree it's smart from your part. The main section is one of the best info sites on chemtrails.

I don't know if orgone is real or not. What I mean is, perhaps there is a way to alter the weather in one's immediate area. Yet, I tend to doubt it. My thinking is that even if those chembusters work, which I do doubt, I can't see how it would ever make a difference, that it would devastate any type of chemtrails program. An analogy I have is with the gun zealots who think an armed citizenry could have any type of chance turning back a fascist, police state. Or maybe chembusters are like trying to stop an enemy with spitballs. Or maybe it is like pissing into the wind. I simply don't buy into it.

Wilhelm Reich was not a hoax. He was one of the greatest social theorists of the twentieth century.He was anti-fascism. He was pro-people and humanity. His most famous work was The Mass Psychology of Fascism. Most of the book is considered a classic. At the end is where he delved into this idea of orgone. If you know anything about the works of Freud, that dude spoke of eros versus death. He wrote of the two competing forces. He said we needed to sublimate the negative into positives.


I think the best is to try it. I will and get some conclusions. Anyway, you are right, the goal is to #1 demonstrate chemtrails are for true (which is already the case) #2 try to stop the program.


Is there a way you could take a screenshot of that email and post it here? Maybe you could at least copy and paste the e-mail? I find it a bit hard to believe this, nothing personal, because "Louis Aubuchont" and others have posted about the orgone stuff. And if you are telling the truth, then it is strange that a CTC moderator would ask you to refrain from such postings. Lou and others have posted about wiping out chemclouds or small clouds with the power of their own minds. Ellyn posts the most ridiculous disinfo that exists. Weatherman714 also posts a lot of crazy thoughts. I am finding it difficult to believe your story. A screenshot of that email would be greatly appreciated.


Unfortunately I erased the message a long ago. At that time, I still did not know this forum; otherwise, I would obviously have posted a screenshot here.

The only way chemtrails will be exposed and stopped is if the ******** conspiro-tainment is left out of the presentation. Most people really do want to figure things out, whether it is election fraud, chemtrails, or whatnot. I honestly believe that people are sick of reading *******, scripted debates that do not allow for the participation of sincere people. Sometimes it is fun to surf the web and read some of the crapola. But when it comes down to it, I think most really want to know what is going on. The ******** makes it impossible for chemtrails to be taken seriously.


Yes, the main problem is that usually people that gets interested in this issue, always end at those disinfo sites (as they are always ranked first in the search engines...).

This week all the corporate media here in Spain informed that some kind of "polar clouds" with huge luminosity (?????) were to be seen for the first time in the country. They showed pics and images of what obviously are chemtrails... The notable colors are clearly due to the chemicals.


1995? That would make you perhaps the first person to have witnessed them. :?


Well, I made a small mistake. Not 1995.

But in may 2006 I spent some 20 days in northern Spain (from Galice to Barcelona). I remember clearly there were chemtrails in the sky (not as much as today of course). It impressed me because I had never seen those lines across the skies. At the time i thought it was normal because of air traffic in Europe. But now I know it was not.


Weather moves. This is a small world.

I'm not sure what you mean about cell phone antennas or what you mean by chemtrails being an "enforcer." Are you saying you think chemtrails are about mind control?

I want you to come out and say exactly what you are thinking. Maybe there is a language barrier here. I am having trouble reconciling your statement that you agree with us here with some of what you have posted. I would also like to see that email you said the CTC admin sent you. Thanks.


Well, yes, afraid my english is not that good. In fact I wanted to write "enhancer" and not "enforcer". I think cell phone antennas magnify ionosferic heaters effects. I am not talking about mind control.

I spoke this morning with some relatives in Uruguay. They are having the hottest summer ever. There is a heavy drought. But humidity remains in the air (no rain, but high humidity %). No chemtrails there. Of course weather moves but no so fast. It is (used to be) a temperate area.

And here in Navarre, no winter at all. Already spring. And drought.
They spray and strom fronts seem to "avoid" the country. Rains right over the sea.

I have thought to send letter to newspapers to create awareness. Do you think it may work?

Thanks for reading.
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Isard
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Posts: 59
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Location: Uruguay

Re: About myself: originally Isard

Unread postby socrates » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:32 pm

Isard wrote:Hi Socrates,
Sorry for my late reply.


No problem, thanks for taking the time to sign up and make some posts. :)

I agree it's smart from your part. The main section is one of the best info sites on chemtrails.


Thanks. I think Lophofo showing up and writing a tinfoil-free thread on HAARP has really helped our focus. I don't mind if a bit of the kookiness is posted about in the top section. Sometimes it is unavoidable. I have been thinking of maybe starting a few more subforums, but as regards to chemtrails, it seems to make sense to have the top one as clean as possible, and then to have this one where we can post a bit more freeform and also focus in on the sheer volume of nutty url's devoted to making chemtrails look like a hoax. But I also don't mind some freeform in the top. We have a good base here. We just need more members. The more human and interactive we are, the better the read, the easier it is for newbies and fence-sitters to digest and understand the big picture.


I think the best is to try it. I will and get some conclusions. Anyway, you are right, the goal is to #1 demonstrate chemtrails are for true (which is already the case) #2 try to stop the program.


Even if it does work, it seems like the effects wouldn't be that great. I mean, most of the atmospheric scientists are humble when it comes to saying whether or not we can control the weather. Then, even the ones who say it is possible, they warn of butterfly effects, etc.. Then there are those few who are clearly Dr. Evils and who want to press forward with their playing God ideas.

One reason I doubt the orgone even works on a small scale, perhaps it does, is that crazy websites like Rigorous Intuition and EducateYourself have some of the craziest stuff being posted, things about sylphs and magical mudpies. I can't believe there are that many people who could fall for this bullcrap and send people like Don Croft money, but who knows?



Unfortunately I erased the message a long ago. At that time, I still did not know this forum; otherwise, I would obviously have posted a screenshot here.


I believe you. When I was at CTC, Gastro, and Megasprayer, there were always a lot of pm's being thrown around. They are trying to control the real people, find ways to have us fit in with all the sock puppets and disinfo.


Yes, the main problem is that usually people that gets interested in this issue, always end at those disinfo sites (as they are always ranked first in the search engines...).


Please feel free to make posts about anything you have read here. For example, it appears that Chemtrail Central has scrubbed the wayback machine coinciding with "Lou Aubuchont" scrubbing over 900 posts. If someone could say, yes, the wayback machine has been scrubbed, wtf, that type of post helps. May41970 has pointed out how it is easier to find crap on the fakes than on the actual chemtrails. There is this need to expose the fakery. There is a good base here that has done that. But if you want to pile on and help us clarify, if you have other things to add, that will help our cause. By exposing the fakery, we have shown how chemtrails have been obfuscated and/or turned into a kooky hoax. It can be tough to put into words. The more of us articulating our ideas, interacting with each other, the clearer it all becomes. I am happy you have arrived here. That makes seven of us who have survived Chemtrail Central, who believe it is a rigged script. Me, you, Lophofo, NatureisMad, may41970, CrystalRose, Con-trail. I hope other good lurkers will sign up and add to this number.

Don Smith might be ok. There is one possibility for how he bailed out on us. When we had this place opened to anonymous, public postings without the need to register, Don Smith was made a moderator. I had a second i.d. of socrates2 which I used in the now defunct public forum. As a moderator, Don could see all the ip addresses. But all the guests were being listed together. So maybe Don Smith jumped to the wrong conclusion that I was making up all those guests. On the other hand, he said he is related by marriage to MarkLookingUp from Chemtroll Central, so I don't know what to make of Don Smith. If I had to make a bet, I'd say he was in on the script, that he was a mole. I also think that Techman was Lou Aubuchont. Techman's attacks on this forum can be read in the "it happens" forum, going by memory.

Athena88, ViewFromKSA, those two had a problem with their tinfoil being called out. Thanks for not taking it personally that I don't buy into this orgone thing. By the way, for the readers, Isard originally signed up here as notfororgoneplsletme, or something close to that. Just because someone might think there is something to orgone doesn't make me think they are necessarily a fake. There is literally tons of crap on orgone on the internet. I don't think that is a coincidence. I think it is all part of the making chemtrails look like a kooky hoax thing.

This week all the corporate media here in Spain informed that some kind of "polar clouds" with huge luminosity (?????) were to be seen for the first time in the country.
They showed pics and images of what obviously are chemtrails... The notable colors are clearly due to the chemicals.


Barium has grennish/purple qualities. Carbon is black. I agree with you that we are not looking at rainbows all time, but rather we are seeing quite often the chemicals reflected by sunlight. And I don't think it is correct to refer to aluminum, barium, and whatnot as chemicals if we are gonna make it seem that we are being "sprayed" for depopulation. Yes, they are elements and chemicals, but they also like sulphur, are to be naturally found. It would be nice to get someone, anyone, in a position of power to authorize the capturing and testing of chemtrail plumes. But right now, our politicians are busy going after steroid users.

This humble forum does get a bunch of visitors from Europe. That is a good thing. We are all in this together. And when we from different nations are able to interact, be human, we then see more clearly how we are all the same. It seems like there are no chemtrails in Africa, so that is perhaps the one place I don't expect many readers to arrive from.

The illuminating clouds are called noctulicent. They have been observed since after the Industrial Revolution. They are being observed more often. They seem to be new cloud systems forming higher up where such clouds had never been observed before. Lately I have been thinking there are activities going on way high above that are simply outside of our views. I do think it is fair to argue that activities are not only taking place in the troposphere. Perhaps the activities in the troposphere that we observe are all about blocking out uv-b rays and attempting to knock down hurricanes, nasty weather, etc.. Then perhaps higher above they are tinkering with both the space weapons and perhaps the geoengineering ideas to offset global warming.



Well, I made a small mistake. Not 1995.
But in may 2006 I spent some 20 days in northern Spain (from Galice to Barcelona). I remember clearly there were chemtrails in the sky (not as much as today of course).
It impressed me because I had never seen those lines across the skies.
At the time i thought it was normal because of air traffic in Europe. But now I know it was not.


Phew. I figured it was something like that, a typo.


Well, yes, afraid my english is not that good...
In fact I wanted to write "enhancer" and not "enforcer". I think cell phone antennas magnify ionosferic heaters effects.
I am not talking about mind control.


Your English is very good. It is impressive when people can speak more than one language. Also, thanks for clarifying what you meant. Personally, I have no idea about the cell towers, and while those and the electricity towers are having negative effects on our health, I have seen far too much craziness as regards to depopulation, mind control, ufo's, etc.. tainting the chemtrails awareness movement. You then see all these gatekeepers like DailyKos talking about "conspiracy nutters," in fact that is being astroturfed all over the internet. I'm saying this tinfoil by association is just too over the top, too prevalent, to be organic. When I think of mind control, I don't think of technology. I think of television, the media, the schools, etc..

That's a good point you make, how language can be somewhat of an obstacle. Enhancer versus enforcer does make it completely different for meaning. I promise to give you the benefit of the doubt. I am hopeful since you have this interest in the chemtrail fakery that we will see more posts from you about this. Do not worry about your English. People love to hear from others from different countries. It makes things more interesting, more humane. In short, don't be scared to post, in any of the forums here. I think your English is good. :)


I spoke this morning with some relatives in Uruguay. They are having the hottest summer ever. There is a heavy drought.
But humidity remains in the air (no rain, but high humidity %).
No chemtrails there. Of course weather moves but no so fast. It is (used to be) a temperate area.

And here in Navarre, no winter at all. Already spring. And drought.
They spray and st[or]m fronts seem to "avoid" the country. Rains right over the sea.


If there is high humidity in Uruguay, then one would expect some of these funky looking persistent, spreading out contrails that the debunkers talk about as being normal. Humidity, altitude, and cold are needed for contrails to be persistent.

Arizona and Hawaii are known for low humidity. Thus there shouldn't be too much of these "persistent contrails." I don't think there have been chemtrails observed in Hawaii, but there have been plenty reported in Arizona, even when the conditions don't seem to be there according to the science.

Here in Massachusetts, our seasons are gone too. We used to be known for our New England foliage. Now it seems the leaves go from green to brown within days. Some winters we still have the leaves around. Some warm winter days, trees will start budding again. We used to have the most amazing fall months. The leaves would turn beautiful orange, red, a whole spectrum of colours over several months. Those days are over.

I have thought to send letter to newspapers to create awareness. Do you think it may work?

Thanks for reading.


Yes, go for it. You may get frustrated, turned down. But maybe one of your news stations does a story. Perhaps send them some good links, the KNBC Moyer report, the KSLA Louisiana one, there is the German news report, the one out of Croatia. There is some good stuff, best evidence type stuff you could make note of.

Have you heard of Daniel Estulin? I am not sure, he may be located in Spain. He was someone who has written on the Bohemian Grove. A while back I noticed that someone had linked to us at Estulin's website. Would that guy be considered a nutjob? Alex Jones here certainly is considered one. You might have noticed this "Louis Aubuchont" doing a lot of frothing. Well, maybe if there is a movie on Lou, Alex Jones could play the lead role.

This is how chemtrails go on and on, in my honest opinion. Over and over again we are perceived as nuts, as cult-like, no matter how much good evidence we come up with. I believe that myself and may41970, and this forum in general, have been attacked so much, because we do provide a threat to their status quo of chemtrails as kookiness.

Sorry for this long post. Again, thanks for signing up, and welcome to the chemtrail haven.
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I am back!

Unread postby Isard » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:49 am

Hi Socrates and other readers and posters,

I am finally back. the last couple of months have been quite difficult for me. I lost my job, and was a bit sick. Hopefully I am now working back in a rapidly growing company since March, and slowly getting better of my health (some anxiety troubles, you know...)

The news in the last weeks here in Spain is that economic situation is getting worse very fast (much more than the manipulator-politicians said). People are waking up to this new reality very fast.

In my last post I said I was participating in a new spanish chemtrails forum. In fact, I was until yesterday. I started a topic stating that we should focus in putting the chemtrails topic in the mainstream media, get out of this small internet word. A few hours later, my topic had disappeared. No reason, no explanation from the moderator. I re-opened a new topic, asking why the previous was censored. A few hours more, and again the same: the new topic, disappeared.

As a consequence, now we have created a new very reduced and "controlled" (in the good sense) forum. Only a few posters. But we are totally convinced it is necessary to get the topic into the real world. We know many farmers in this country understand there is something wrong going on, many of them have even sent letters to newspapers. I feel happy today (as well as the other posters), because we are really on the good way.

And let me say I always use as an example this forum, which is the best source of information on thiis matter over the web.

Finally, I think you asked about Mr. Estulin. Well, I know many think he's a manufactured guy. My personal experience is that it was thanks to him, to his books, that I realized the conspirancies, that run our world. And after a long evolution, I arrived to this chemtrails topic (as well as others, such as medicine frauds, etc). Maybe his task is just to get the people frightened, but, why talking about the Bilderbergs, when before his books were published almost nobody knew about their existence? In my opinion, he is a good guy. By the way, since the beginning of this year, he's in the US....

Well, I will post more often from now on.

Thanks for reading. We are in the good road

:)
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Isard
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Location: Uruguay

Unread postby socrates » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:20 pm

Hi Isard,

Welcome back. If by chance you run into a post where I ripped into you, please forgive me. It was nothing personal, as we've only just met. Trust is a tough thing on the internet. Por Favor forgive me.

Congrats on the new job, and good luck with your health. As for the problems in Spain, feel free to post in the everything else section. Us yanks don't get enough international news.

We are owned by China. Bill Clinton, for his many flaws, balanced the budget, he even created a surplus. But since GW Bush stole the election in 2000, he has emptied the vault. They dropped the interest rates too low, just to keep making profits for the few. Now we have the housing bubble and the dollar is weak. Sure, we are ok in our own country. But people are in for a shock if they want to go to Europe or elsewhere. The dollar has been ruined. And with all these economies tied together, maybe that is part of the reason Spain is hurting. Although I admit I am speculating on that being a connection.

Now for this thread that got deleted, have you told us everything? Why would anyone censor a post wondering about the possibilities of media coverage? What's the link? Maybe with babel fish translation I can give you my humble opinion of the place.

We have this big place called DailyKos. The guy who started it was in the CIA. He acts like he is all that and a bag of chips for the liberals/progressives. But he and his syncophants censor the election fraud story.

Thanks for your efforts. I think there is one youtube video on this forum of chemtrails in Spain. I'm really curious about that forum now. That's ridiculous.

Hey, I have an idea. Maybe you could scan the newspaper letters and translate them for us. It's really not tough to upload pictures. Your new forum sounds like this one. We try to work with the big places, because at first, they seem like the place to be. But what a disappointment those have become. But we are on the good road. Thank you very much for your kind words about this forum.

Hey, I mentioned orgone on the aerosol thread. Feel free to post anywhere. I trust you. It's a learning curve. Good people like us try to see the best in everyone. They prey on our idealism. They fear our universal goodness. Confucious was right.

I always thought the Estulin guy was good. I never read that much, but it's just like you said about him. Now as regards to Alex Jones, yikes, he is on my list of not good for the cause.

There's this TOOL song, and Maynard is speaking German, and it sounds sinister, makes one think of the nazis. But a friend of mine told me it was a recipe. So Alex Jones, I don't care if he's got some great truths. His presentation ruins it.

Lophofo, the genius behind the HAARP thread, he put that thing together without bringing in anybody like Bearden, Greer, or Scott Stevens. That's when I knew I could trust him, that he understands how crazy presentations can ruin a good story.

This is my third post today. I got one left to go. We have a new member named Lucid Dreamer who understands this concept of controlled forums. So it's gone from crickets chirping to a lot of diverse people making posts. Right when I am ready to wind down, give up, the cavalry arrives.

Hey, yo estudio espanol para ochos anos pero no se mucho. Lo siento, mi amigo. Paz en el Mundo

The Doors - Spanish Caravan


KlincNM wrote:The Doors perform Spanish Caravan.
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Unread postby Lophofo » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:31 pm

Hey, just wanted to say I'm here and reading and will be posting soon as well. Glad to see have you back, Isard.
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Unread postby Isard » Mon May 05, 2008 4:14 pm

Hi guys, thanks for your replies!

:D :D :D :D

I am happy today. We started (3 of us in Spain), sending some e-mails to the media. And today, one of my letters got published. It is the ADN newspaper, which you can pick up for free in the main spanish cities. It is the top growing paper in 2007 in the country. It is read by many many people.
adn.es

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When I sent it, I titled it "Strange trails", but they changed and published with the title "Chemtrails phenomenon".

Here's a basic translation:

"I would like to call your attention on a visible phenomenon over our skies: airplanes flying while leaving dense and long trails. These remain in the air for many hours, and last by creating clouds which look no natural at all, and stay permanently. I have verifyied that normal passenger aircraft do not leave those trails, and that they only appear occasionnaly (not every day). It is a serious environmental problem, which may be contributing to global climate change. It seems to be a global phenomenon, as it has already been documentated and is being exposed and denounced in many other countries. You just have to type the word "chemtrails" (which seems to be used to describe the phenomenon), in any web search engine, to understand its importance.

Apparently, the analisis of sparsed substances has shown it may contain health hazardous products (as barium or aluminium). In our country many farmers are scared, as they consider this is having direct effects on the drought we are suffering.

However, no organization, no media, and even the governement, have taken any investigation on the subject. I sincerily hope these short lines will be a small contribution to expose the topic, with clear answers and explanations"

Well, I will keep you informed on our efforts.

thanks for reading!
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Hi Isard, & welcome here!

Unread postby NatureisMad » Tue May 06, 2008 7:07 am

Hi, Isard
Welcome to this here place!
Nice to see you are aware & trying to spread the awareness over there in Spain.
It sounds like Spain is heavily chemtrailed. I've seen photos & have heard others speak of some pretty wicked spraying that goes down in your country.
I hope to continue to see you around this forum.
Take care & keep going,

NatureisMad
Born into...& trying to survive this science fiction world
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Unread postby socrates » Tue May 06, 2008 10:49 pm

Thanks for being our chemtrail news correspondent from Spain. I do believe it's important for folks from all across the globe to come together. Chemtrails is a global situation.

I found one of the chemtrail forums you have been posting at. Thank you very much for the kind words about the data here.

Here is the link with Babel Fish translation.

I noticed a few things about that place that are cause for concern, imho. For one, they have a whole section devoted to chembusters. While the moderator seemed to agree with you about a bit of the disinfo from the chemtrail believer side, this emphasis on chembusters is surely going to scare off your fellow citizens. Folks on the internet like Don Croft are scammers or worse, some kind of disinfo public relations.

In general, however, the moderator doesn't seem to realise the depth of craziness coming out of the believer side. The section on disinformation is completely devoted to the closed-minded debunkers. My belief is that one needn't prove anything to debunkers. If one can explain the situation with logic and good evidence, there is no need to worry about the disinformant debunkers. To me, this comes down to the word kooky. If we can show the world and the people from our own countries that chemtrails are more likely than not a deliberate undertaking, then we will be that much closer to forcing disclosure and the cessation of chemtrails.

I will give applause to the thread on subliminals. I thought the ones we get in America were bad. The ones on that thread are outrageous. Here are a few videos and photos taken from that forum.



chemtrail colhogar





Citroen C5 'Unmistakeably German'



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An Austrian Airline
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