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alex jones - brownshirt

manufactured grassroots, disinfo, and insidious marketing

Re: alex jones - brownshirt

Unread postby socrates2 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:40 pm

Hi everyone,

Here's the technical stuff first. Tlnl, please don't forget to type in your username. Otherwise, myself or Lophofo has to fix it. Also, there is a definite glitch with the link abbreviator mod. Everyone, please remember to make sure your links are intact in the posting box before hitting submit. This glitch is happening with the quote, edit, and preview buttons. The freeforum tech didn't believe me. I'll give it some time and go back and see if they can understand what I'm on about. Maybe they'll fix it in the interim.

If the forum is slow, you can try deleting the board cookies, and your own cookies and cache. There are mods inside this place where we can purge the cache, resynchronize things. For example, when I fixed tlnl's name in the last post, I then went to the admin panel and resynchronized. Then his username changed from guest to tlnl on the main index.

One can also go to freeforums.org and check out their tech forum. You'll probably see posts articulating the same problem. I also think if you leave out the www in our address, that may help.

As for the ads and robots, they are a necessary evil. The ads actually look a million times better than when we first got them. It was a good ride at the beginning having zero ads. It would cost money to get rid of them. We can open up a community chest, but I doubt anyone would donate to this place. And if anyone would, we would be better off waiting to try that, when we perhaps eventually move to our own place off the freeforums grid.

The robots help us get into the search engines. Plus, FreeForums has set it up where it is to our advantage to register them. There were fifty registered when we got to the new place. One of them is even from Seoma, Mark Steadham's directory. The only ones who seem to show up a lot are google and yahoo. I wish we could hide them, but that is a mod one would have to pay for. Maybe someday, if I hit the lottery, we'll go bigtime classy. :wink:

I like how the stats are set up for four hours. It lines up with our most guests ever on line. We have gotten close to that record number. One of these days. :)

Someone shut the smilies off for me quick! :lol:

Yikes, Alex Jones is channeling some smilies through me.

:x :evil: :oops:

The easiest way around the url abbreviator glitch is to use the url code.
[url=put in url address]description[/url]

New youtube videos should be set to go. I'll add one here to test. We're still trying to fix the videos posted before the forum conversion. I can't wait til all this kind of stuff is figured out. It'd be nice to just be a regular blogger/gadfly again.

I love this kind of thread. It shows that when the riffraff, paid or otherwise, are weeded out, regular, sincere people are able to make connections and form consensus. I believe one of the major reasons the internet is rigged is because the ptb's/dark side don't appreciate the political revolutions. They like the facade of democracy, but they do not like too much freedom of speech or association. They like a high noise to signal ratio. This makes sense to people like us. Perhaps it is for the newbies and fence-sitters, that we feel compelled to spread this message.

Here's a PrisonPlanet article that shows their true colours.

Alex Jones physically assaulted by Obama supporters

Ha, I had to edit their spelling. They have it right now as assulted.

Alex Jones and his Infowars.com team were physically assulted by crazy Obama supporters caught live via the web!

That's like a lot of disinfo we saw a few months ago. There is an "ex-spook" named Larry Johnson who has a place called No Quarters. The swiftboating going on against Obama there would make even Karl Rove blush. If Alex Jones were a real progressive, he wouldn't be attacking Obama in this way. Anyone who thinks Obama is no different or is worse than John McCain, go watch Obama's performance last night and then tell us you still think that way.

The youtube code has been added. If you drag the mouse over the mods, you can see all the BB codes. Here is the video.

Ok, I'll go back to the above posts and see if any of you blokes and lasses have triggered a response. :P For the record, tlnl is a Brit. We especially encourage folks from Ireland, England, and Scotland to join in. We also encourage anyone from non-speaking English countries to pipe in. One of our members is from Spain. Diversity is good.

I agree with BSH's analysis that Jones' actions could have been directed by handlers. The cover story reinforces the status quo. Malkin is propped up as the sane righty, while Jones becomes the poster child for a kooky internet.

Thanks for mentioning those internment camps. That's been a big woowoo meme for years. I think the truth behind them is that they were created to be able to handle natural disasters like Hurricane Katrina. Now there's a friggen injustice, how the New Orleans' folks were left to rot for so long. Now how the hell did that happen? I have a suspicion the GW Bush lack of action during that tragedy was scripted. I think the disinfo on the internet has been slanted to portray all of the lunacy as a result of **** Cheney and the neocons. GW Bush and his administration thus become the sole source of the populace's angst. People like McCain then lie and make it seem he is not the McSame.

You then have the fake, progressive, libertarian types railing more about Reid, Pelosi, and the Democratic Party than about the failures of conservative policies, like Tlnl listed some above.

Hey Tlnl, you wanted politics, here's your politics, albeit with a methodology interested in fakitudeness. I think I just made up a word. :P

There's something about this new forum, where it seems easier to just spit things out.

Back to the internment camp thing. Remember the story saying that Bush called the constitution a goddamn piece of paper? This is the same kind of hogwash.

One of the big names in election integrity blogging was Andy Stephenson. He used to work for Bev Harris. If you go through Democratic Underground archives, you can see how he was entangled in these kind of tabloid, unprovable claims. He was apparently in contact with Mike Vreeland. Remember Vreeland? There's also a guy named Ben Burch who archives progressive radio shows. He too got into the tabloid scaremonger role. He even wrote one post saying his "source" had information about if I can remember correctly, something about nukes and Iran.

This is how they do it, how they make the tinfoil appear to come from the left. You have Jones pulling these stunts against Fox-TV. You have him linking to progressive papers like The Guardian. Then you have supposedly progressive bloggers like Stephenson and Burch writing the same kind of crap on progressive websites. Then you have the closed-minded debunkers belittling them. Then others respond by linking to crazy, unconfirmed sources like Wayne Madsen. Round and round it goes. And this is why comment sections are now impossible to read. The disinfo is so sophisticated, that they are able to build up post counts and thus credibility and then insidiously destroy whole threads and forums.

Sometimes it is the blog owners who are behind this. A few years back Kos shut down all discussion and linking about 9/11. At around the same time, DU created the 9/11 dungeon. Not only that, DU set it up, so that all "conspiracy chatter" would end up in the dungeon, further confusing and marginalizing that specific forum along with the off-topic from 9/11 "conspiracy theory" threads.

It seems scripted at those two places. It's scripted at the Randi Rhodes Message Board, who have sunk so low to now hide their own 9/11 forum from general view.

Mostly I think these places are rigged because they don't seem at all spontaneous or organic. Kos calls talk about election fraud conspiracy chatter. BradBlog then went on the attack against Kos, about a year ago. That's why I started to become a BradBlogger. I thought he understood.

But then I found out about Brad's tinfoil leanings. The guy is no different than Wayne Madsen. He uses bad sources and stories that can't be verified. His moderator Agent99 is a "crazy tinfoiler" herself. Months ago someone posted about 80,000 dead US soldiers from both Gulf Wars. The source used seemed to be from a Camp Carto type. I got chewed out by Agent99, because I was correct that the source was a joke. Brad Friedman is a libertarian, progressive sort. Agent99 is meant to be the radical tinfoiler who supports Farrakhan. Funny thing is, a year or so ago, she totally dissed Cindy Sheehan. That does not add up.

These are the ways the "tinfoil" is foisted on the left.

Kos went out of his way to ban certain talk, and it caused a stir, signifying that there was a problem with lefties being conspiracy theorists. For the DU to have had to establish a conspiracy dungeon, that signified the same false perception that too many lefties are naive tinfoilers. You also had the Free Republic banning Mike Rivero for being a conspiracy nut. That made Rivero seem fringe, similar to this Malkin/Jones controversy.

I see what you mean Tlnl about Rivero and the slippery slope with torture. It's like that famous saying, I forget who said it :oops: something about how if one group is a target, others could and probably would be next.

The attacks on the ACLU make me more apt to think Alex Jones is paid disinfo. If he is so mad at the neocons for taking a dump on the constitution, wouldn't he appreciate the ACLU for standing up for our basic rights?

I also see Tlnl's point about Jones perhaps causing the ruckus to back his prediction up. Didn't he predict 9/11? Maybe he didn't predict it exactly like it played out, but he does seem to have used that to prop himself up as a great mind and someone to listen to deeply.

[quote="tlnl"]Condoning such behaviour is endorsing brownshirting. It amazes me that people ask of Nazi Germany - "How did it happen?" - and yet here we are in 2008 America, and we have supposed critics of the establishment condoning the brownshirting of a (tiny female) journalist.

I hope my fear and worry is misplaced. I hope AJ has far less influence than I suppose. But this is a very dangerous precedent, and a possible warning of what's to come.

Aren't you in England? :?

Just Kidding. I know what you meant.

I don't think Alex Jones has as much influence as you think. How many people do not go on the internet for this kind of material? A lot of folks just use it for email and checking out sports or other hobbies.

But I guess that's where his value is as a possible agent provocateur. He becomes a rabbit hole for those interested in his presentation. He also becomes a strawman for those operating on the bigger domains, those with far greater influence to ply psy-ops directed at mainstream readers.

Re: alex jones - brownshirt

Unread postby tlnl » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:20 am

No, I'm *not* in England.

You can upset people like that, you know? :) I don't much care - but UK is England, Scotland and Wales - 3 different countries which proudly retain cultural differences. Even different languages you know? Dwi'n codi'n gynnar bob dydd. ;)

I thought I'd post this, as it gives a good (tho very brief) background on where Alex Jones fits into american political landscape. You might already be familiar with it, but anyway........

It roughly shows where the troofer beliefs fit in, and where they've come from:

”The Minutemen of today and the militias of a decade ago have many commonalities ideologically,” Burghart said. ”Despite all their 'law-and-order' rhetoric, they both rely on illegal paramilitary vigilantism and intimidation to push public policy.”

”They both appear to be expressions of Middle American Nationalism -- the notion that 'middle Americans' are being squeezed from above by the economic elites, and from below from the multicultural hordes that are sucking the lifeblood from the productive middle.”

”Both the militias and the minutemen create a demonised 'other' based on citizenship status: The militias had the 'sovereign citizen' concept, which divided people into (white) state 'sovereign' citizens and so-called '14th Amendment' citizens. The Minutemen do it the basis of perceived immigration status.”

He noted that ”both are rife with conspiracy theories. For example, the militias were concerned about the New World Order, while the Minutemen have La Reconquista, which contends that there is a secret plot to re-conquer the American southwest for Mexico.”

Moreover, both the militias and the Minutemen have something in common with the Posse Comitatus, an anti-Semitic white supremacist group that sprung up in the 1970s. Latin for ”power of the county,” the Posse Comitatus was founded in 1971 by retired army lieutenant colonel William Potter Gale.

Gale ”believed that all white, Christian men had an unconditional right to take up arms to enforce the principles of a 'Constitutional Republic,' and challenge various 'unlawful acts' of the federal government, including integration, taxation and the federal reserve banking system,” Daniel Levitas, the author of ”The Terrorist Next Door. The Militia Movement and the Radical Right” (St Martin's Press, 2002), told IPS.

Devin Burghart pointed out that in their day, the militias received support and cover from elected officials, including Idaho's Republican congresswoman, Helen Chenowith.

”These days, the Minuteman Project has received positive reviews from California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and Colorado Congressman Tom Tancreado, as well as the House immigration reform caucus,” he noted. "

Re: alex jones - brownshirt

Unread postby tlnl » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:23 am

OOOps left off this bit.

Like the Posse Comitatus and the militias before it, the success of the Minutemen ”is derived from the ability to join racism and right-wing militancy with more seemingly acceptable frustrations about immigration policy. Its downfall will be in the criminality of its leaders and the inevitable violence that follows in its wake.”

Re: alex jones - brownshirt

Unread postby socrates2 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:15 am

It's very important what we have uncovered. I'm thinking of Tinoire of progressiveindependent.com posing with Wolfowitz. I have always had a suspicion that the website which posted the photo and PI are rigged, oppositional debate. It turns out that all of them slant right. How did the enemy of Tinoire, prosemite undercover, get that photo?

Speaking of rightwing, here Tinoire was endorsing Ron Paul. What a fraud. How is she a lefty?

I think we did damage to a lot of big websites. The pockets of awareness have been established.

Ron Paul's Revolution (Stan Goff for Ron Paul)

She's also buddies with that blog you recently sparred with. People can read about that on the Mob Barley thread.

Re: alex jones - brownshirt

Unread postby tlnl » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:44 pm

Thought I'd add this rather astonishing dialogue between Alex and a guest, Mark Shrimpton.

This is the "libertarian" Alex Jones, is it? The anti-fascist, anti-surveillance, police state Alex Jones?

151. AJ: You were there with the IDF on the ground, what did you learn?

152. MS: Well I was very impressed with the way the IDF ran check-points. I talked to a check-point commander in Jenin, for example, very impressed with what I saw; very impressed with the security fence which is clearly having an impact in those sectors of the West Bank where it’s been erected.[Inaudible]

153. AJ: Well I know this. We sure need one of those on the southern border of the US.

154. MS: [Laughs]

155. AJ: And I want one. That thing’s beautiful.

156. MS: Well I think your southern border is a bit porous and as we’ve seen on 9/11, porous borders can present dangers. And er –

157. AJ: Well I’m not kidding, I’ve literally seen photos of that thing and I start salivating on it.


162. MS: Well I’m a big fan of the IDF. I was very impressed meeting and talking with erm, from soldiers up to generals. I think the IDF are doing a good job. I think the Israelis know far more about counter-terrorism than we do in Britain or in the United States. My general line with Israel is I think, we in the west, the rest of the west – Israel is part of the west – we need to get off the Israelis’ back and let them go and do the job. They do know what they’re doing.

163. AJ: Well certainly they know how to build a fence and I wish we had one of those.

164. MS: [Laughs] The fence is very impressive. It’s more than a fence of course, it’s a, you’ve got a ditch, you’ve got a roadway that allows regular patrolling, easy access to any terrorist incursion, good surveillance, some good, high-tech stuff there. The security barrier is a very impressive development.

also at prisonplanet:

{Hey tlnl- sorry to barge in again on your posts, but there is a free forums glitch right now with the url abbreviator. If you hit edit, the links are getting sliced and diced. It's all BB code here but real easy.


I had to snoop around search engines to fix the links. Thanks.

I'm glad that we are friends and thanks for what you have done as regards to seeking out truths.

It's as if we are the few people asking wtf about these internet personalities with their anomalies. I know you wrote one post at DBS on chemtrails. I think it was on the Phelps character. I think I found an obscure picture of Cliff Carnicom working with atmospheric scientists. It was from a pdf file that no one was ever going to stumble on. You have science geeks and you have chemmies, and rarely have they met in the middle. This is the only forum that presents a viable explanation with documentation.

Hey, let me grab the images. I'm looking for honest opinions. In return, I'll try to look into your things. You have found these smoking guns with Alex Jones. Carnicom, at his forum has tags for Alex and Jones. He's a rightwinger, too. I think Rivero is toast. I think forums and websites are rigging their stats. I think it's good that you are looking into Jones, as he has a lot more supporters than Rivero.



I wish I had a better photo of the atmospheric scientist dude. I'm squinting, trying to figure out jaw lines. Friggen sassafrassa as yosemite sam says. That's from a cartoon.

I wouldn't be such an *** about the links, but I'm off the high speed connection.

I'm already skeptical of that guy Shrimpton, just looking at him. Intelligence? Why are we always being informed by intelligence, military, pundits, et al. Whatever happened to just the facts with some common sense. We have this ex-spook guy named Larry Johnson. He's got a somewhat popular website. Though it could be just some astroturfing with robots and sock puppets jacking up the view counts. My point is, no way is this Larry Johnson guy not disinfo.

Are we to believe that Alex Jones and all these other folks rise to the top based on hard work and talent? I look at some websites, and I'm thinking no way are they getting that many views from real, unique people.

Hey, why didn't Alex Jones debate Shrimpton's point about pourous borders leading to 9/11? Why didn't he start talking inside job?

I think Alex Jones is an actor. I think if he was bigger and took steroids, he'd be one of them fake wrestlers.

But yeah, please either don't hit the preview key or use the code. Thanks. Dial-up makes me cranky. :)

This place has good software. This could be a decent outlet for you to reach more people with your ideas. Is there anywhere decent where the kinds of things we've discussed are covered? Are there any places you know of which appear to be fake-free?


Re: alex jones - brownshirt

Unread postby socrates2 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:14 pm

I did a google search. for "alex jones is a fascist' and this was the 9th result:

Alex Jones - Brownshirt

You have a twin! :lol:

With Tinoire at PI, you never know when your posts and threads will be deleted or altered.

What is striking to me is that the person who supported your twin completely missed your point. He or she argued that Jones is in this for the money.

Ok, fine, whatever, but notice how your overall, profound points were ignored? This is going on all over the rigged internet. Sincere people are either ignored or ridiculed. Their ideas are either obfuscated or distorted.

In the real world full of many sincere people, someone would have come up with a post interacting directly with your ideas.

This is exactly what happened to me at BradBlog. My best stuff was ignored.

When I became persistent and asked them to explain the Brett Kimberlin connection, I was banned. I don't think they liked it when I showed that Larisa from RawStory outright lied about Kimberlin being an ex-political prisoner.

Brad friedman taunted me a while back wishing me good luck with digging up dirt on himself. When I provided such dirt, I was banned. The only opposition allowed on bradBlog is from far rightwing posters. That way BradBlog with its ties to Michael Rivero can continue to falsify their image of being leftist progressives.

Real people like us are getting squeezed out.

Then they come up with ******** lies. You saw what happened to me at Rivero's WRH forum. You then got accused of being me at PI.

But don't worry Tlnl. I took screenshots.

Remember that last big thread at the WRH forum, the one where the fake lawyer showed up? Unless the ********* fakes have put it back up for google cache, it can be found no where except for this small forum. Last time I checked, many threads can be found through google cache. One's like that one are completely gone.

I don't think we are the only ones who have figured out the Carto type scams going on. I just think that most of the major forums are rigged, so that people like us get ignored then banned for simply speaking the truth backed by facts.

That shitheads like this go to such trouble to create elaborate cybersmear campaigns shows that we are onto something big.

In short, these people have picked the wrong people to mess with. People like us have fought back, and imho, we have won!
Last bumped by Anonymous on Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:14 pm.


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