All Aircraft Are Not Involved

posted by may41970

From what I've read on the net and from the pictures I've seen, I suspect the full-on spraying started around '99. But as I wasn't in the states at the time, I can't say for sure. '97 is an arbitrary date. I just as well could have said '95 or '90.

Yes, I hear you. The exact year is an arbitrary one, isn't it? Very difficult to know for sure. I am just in awe at all of this. The year when it fully got underway will forever go down in history. It was the year when our skies would change drastically beyond anyone's (well, not everyone I suppose) wildest imagination.

by may41970

When do you think the project really got underway?

I am thinking the all-out onslaught actually began sometime in 1998. I see that socrates thinks 1997. But, it really doesn't matter too much, IMO. I have seen some pictures of wicked chemtrails in New Mexico supposedly dated from 1996. Of course, we must presume that those responsible did some test spraying (how long, I wonder?) before the total, grotesque, white-out/tic-tac-toe/massive # of jets type of chemtrailing. Nonetheless, it was sometime in the late 1990's.

A funny thing, too. I keep on coming up with old evidences of chemtrails before I even actually knew what was happening. I recently found a photograph I took back in 2001 of some crazy chemtrails over Morrison, Colorado area in the A.M. I remember stopping to snap these photographs because the "clouds" just looked so darn strange that day. Almost beyond belief. I recall thinking to myself, "What in the world? Can these be clouds? I've got to get some pictures of these things."

Now (just the other day) I pull out those old shots, & there is absolutely no doubt what I had photographed> early morning chemtrails looming from night spraying.

posted by socrates

There isn't much on the internet for close-ups of the chemtrail jets. What we do see are plenty of images of commercial air jets with vivid contrails. With normal contrails we do see the gap before the exhaust changes into the ice crystal stuff. Plus, it has to be very cold, with a certain altitude, and a decent amount of humidity for contrails to persist, let alone form.

Absolutely. Excellent point. Contrails take a moment/a short distance behind the aircraft before the water vapor freezes & creates the trail that is visibly seen. With chemtrails, it is almost as if the contents (chemicals?) are being ejected straight out of the aircraft itself. Like there is no distance behind its flight path upon where a normal "contrail" should form. It is just a straight-up trail right behind the spray jet.

by socrates

I do think the shit is coming out directly from the aircraft. Stop the video at places. The exhaust trails are close together and always lining up with the tail of the aircraft. Imho, even greater evidence is the one plane that soared below, then through, then above the chemjunk. It looked very similar to the other planes. The argument that chemtrails are contrails, that this type of thing has to do with different engines and more air traffic, this just doesn't add up. There was absolutely nothing coming out of that one plane, yet it soared through and way above the mess without even a hint of exhaust.

Another good point. Oh yeah, one can see an aircraft going right through the chemtrails/chemtrailed area right after they were sprayed & that craft will leave absolutely no contrail whatsoever. Approximately the same elevation & the same conditions. How can it just be "contrail"? Scientifically & technically impossible.

by socrates

So we need high powered equipment to identify the aircraft.

Yes. That would help immensely. The bottome line is the reality factor. Us civilians are down here on the ground & these spray craft are way up there in the troposphere. They are well above being able to accurately distinguish what kind of craft/where the spray comes out of/etc. Yet, IMO, it is only a matter of time.

1997 is what always seems to spring up with the old articles. I don't even have the exact date it sunk infor me. I think around 2001-02, I started to get a hint. My story is kind of like yours, when there was the epiphany. For me, that was probably around 2003 or 2004, while at a state park. In my head, it was Chemtrails or Contrails. No believing. No reflecting. Just those two words. Then I saw some crazy planes leaving persistent trails. Even into 2005-06 I was being open-minded. Leaning chemtrails, of course, but open to any type of explanation. It's just the damn deliberate nature of it that gives it away.

In 2006, there's a thread at this place, but I witnessed approximately 50-100 chemtrails. It was the Memorial Day Weekend and others across the country also reported the same kind of thing. Newbies, those on the fence, I understand where they are coming from. But even on one of those Paul Moyer clips, one of the geoengineers, Gregory Benford admitted that one filmed sky looked kind of fried, to paraphrase.

Just saying that from 2000-2004, I was indoors a lot for work. This is something that needs to be explained to people. We have to mix it up depending on the audience. But I figure 30-40% are chemtrail aware despite the internet. They may try to pass it off, but a lot of them are well aware that it is going on. It's not like it is that tough to witness. Eventually, if one knows what to look for, they're right in front of their yappers. Today, early evening we got chemtrails. Only in the west. Same as yesterday, blue skies everywhere else.

White-silver-mucky looking crap was by the sun. The debunkers at Democratic Underground liked to make fun of this point. But it's the truth. If folks look to the East in the morning, and the West towards the night, they seem to be more likely to witness deliberate chemtrail activity.

posted by may41970

Recently, I've been wondering more about why this is going on. The money, the energy being expended, the secrecy. Why? I don't believe it's about poisoning people. I don't believe it's soley about war technology and/or weather control. What could justify this expenditure? Some blogger once compared the chemtrails project to Great Wall of China in relative scope. I agree. The fantastic money this must be costing. Who is doing it and why?

Darn good questions, my friend. Darn good ones, indeed. I've often asked these same exact questions myself. It is mind-blowing. If I spend too much time thinking too hard about the answers, my head starts to hurt. Is it to actually help the atmosphere (ozone layer, etc.)? Is it military applications? IMO, it is a little of all of these things. To quote socrates, "Frankenstein scientists" Twisted, arrogant, & ignorant freaks who think they can control mother nature. One day, everybody may know the reasons for this absurd wrecking of our skies.

But here is one great quote written by may41970 one time. Laughter shot out of me for quite some time.

I feel like an ant crawling around on the ground while some dumb kid sprays me with whatever he could dig up from under the kitchen cabinet. And no one gives a damn.

Ha!!

posted by socrates

Today, early evening we got chemtrails. Only in the west. Same as yesterday, blue skies everywhere else. White-silver-mucky looking crap by the sun. The debunkers at Democratic Underground liked to make fun of this point. But it's the truth. If folks look to the East in the morning, and the West towards the night, they seem to be more likely to witness deliberate chemtrail activity.

Yep. When there is chemtrail activity, it is often found over the area of the sun. This is not always so, as we witness on complete white-out days. But more often than not, this is so.
You mean like this?:

NatureisMad wrote:
Yep. When there is chemtrail activity, it is often found over the area of the sun. This is not always so, as we witness on complete white-out days. But more often than not, this is so.

I consider you as one of the founders of this place. I saw your posts at Megasprayer where they were arguing that chemtrails are contrails. I've seen your posts where you write of how chemtrails are used to block out the sun. But, yeah, this isn't all about chemtrails. It's also about how they look after the "spraying."

The key motive is to produce fake overcasts. The chemtrails probably have a shelf life of a few days before they fall out with the rain or go off into the Atlantic Ocean.

{off-topic: just lazy, don't want to make more posts. I have been looking for subliminals and will probably post some more soon, but my unscientific reading is that the skies are getting cloudier in the entertainment images. The chemtrails seem to be less obvious, but the ugly milky-white crap seems to be on the increase.

Also off-topic; still lazy. Over at Carnicoms forum, myself and Day Glo {DG}, are being attacked by "prolific" usernames. DG's take is very similar to yours, NatureisMad. You posted at Chemtroll Central that the focus should be on chemtrails. DG is fighting that specific battle. She also has no use for crazy tinfoil either. But the reason I post this here, not just because of laziness, is that on that thread I put up some of the images from this one.
Our Problem: you, me, everyone - goodbye America

I left her the same questions you responded to earlier:

1) Does it look like the chemcrap is coming directly out of the planes from the skywatch video?

2) And what about that plane soaring above the chemstew? It leaves no exhaust at all and looks similar to the other aircraft mucking up the skies. One would think there'd at least be a short term contrail, but there is absolutely NOTHING! Thus, how can all aircraft be involved?
{end of cross-post)

These two images are from Cliff Carnicom from 1999 and perhaps back up the contention that chemtrails have been identified as pouring out from the tail area rather than from normal exhaust outlets. I still think the video featured on this thread is the best evidence for this being at least one method for the dispersal of chemtrails.

link






Last one- located at the following link:
acurse.com/essay_chemtrails.html

Notice the T-tail with the rear engines. So there are at least two different types of chemtrail jets, those with the rear engines and those with the engines on the front wings. The last photo is from "skywatch" at youtube, the one used as the logo for this forum.





{on edit: the logo got lost in the upgrade. It was a close-up of a plane from the video where the trail did not look like it was coming out of the engines like normal contrails.}

A very low Chemtrails jet over my house
From: nicscics


I have tried to show in this thread that chemtrails seem to be coming directly out of jets, usually from the tail. These do not look like the contrails we see from photos from places like airliners.net. There is also a mysterious third trail in these images. One needs to look close.












Chemtrail Jets nearly collide, or do they?
From: skywatch



The X Pattern:



















Chemtrails
From: KeizerSosa













NBC news: Chemtrails over California
From: nightfallproject






The jets in the Paul Moyer report are tough to see. Some I am not sure are chemjets. I say this because the exhaust in some of the images seem to be normal. But again, there are many ways to make chemtrails. They don't need to come directly out of some "spray" attachment. Planes can run dirty. The military planes can also use jet fuel with additives that commercial jets simply are not allowed to use.













There is something about Rosalind Peterson that I simply trust.
{on edit: The jury is now out on Rosalind Peterson }



She noticed large spikes in aluminum and barium levels correlating with chemtrail events.










Finally, I wasn't a big fan of the Discovery Channel's show on chemtrails. Yet, it did seem to back the idea that commercial jet fuel has nothing to do with chemtrails. If that is true, which we have no reason to believe otherwise, we are left with the question of why would anyone think that all aircraft are involved?






The Discovery Channel Investigates chemtrails
video

NatureisMad wrote:
....But here is one great quote written by may41970 one time. Laughter shot out of me for quite some time.

I feel like an ant crawling around on the ground while some dumb kid sprays me with whatever he could dig up from under the kitchen cabinet. And no one gives a damn.

Ha!!

One of the problems with looking into internet fakery is that we can tend to not know who to trust. Even myself and may41970 have gone through some rough patches doubting the other. May41970 reminded me of this quote from NatureisMad which I basically was also confused about at the time, but only for a second, then I forgot about it.

So based on NatureisMad being awol for so long, that it has coincided with the "typhoon" of a plot against myself and may41970, I just want to ask NatureisMad why such an image would make someone laugh so hard. This is just part of the let's not walk on eggshells kind of approach I'd like each of us to take.

I even started to have some doubts about Lophofo, because his name is similar to the one that the WRH myspace blogger "Larry" has used, lophatt. I asked Lophofo about it, and he had a most excellent and quick response. I even now remember that he had explained this to me at Gastronamus Cafe when we were working together trying to figure out how chemtrails relate to environmental modification techniques.

This is where Lophofo got his name. I hope he can forgive me for quoting him again from a private message.

It didn't originate from LoPhatt, MarkLookingUP, or Don Smith...if you were wondering. I've had this username since '96.

It originated from the word lophophore:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lophophore

The essence of cointelpro is to infiltrate peaceful groups and to ruin them from the inside. My apologies to Lophofo for wondering about his name. I was an idiot to have forgotten that he already had explained its origins.

Cointelpro likes to breed mistrust. I hope NatureisMad doesn't take my question the wrong way. It's just that his hiatus from our forum couldn't have come at a worse time.

I guess this is one of those rare occasions when the disinfo angle ends up being discussed in the main chemtrails section here at our humble forum. The key is to not walk on eggshells. The key is to try our best to clear up any misconceptions before they can fester into something unhealthy and not true. Sometimes it turns out that our doubts are correct, as with "Lou Aubuchont" and many of the other fakes. But sometimes we can be unfairly tagged as something we are not.

Please forgive me, Lophofo and N.I.M. if this post or any other has crossed the line. My aim is true.

I had even started doubting may41970 for a minute or two because he got banned the same day "Lou" appeared to delete all his posts at CTC. But it turns out that "Aubuchont" had started to delete his posts days earlier. May41970 also didn't post anything wrong. He simply asked again where exactly he posted in which he deserved to get "tagged," so that he wouldn't do it again. May41970 simply made a post that I could have easily have made. But a few weeks ago, may41970 advised me not to respond to traps. May41970 simply forgot to heed his own advise. He took one on the chin for the truth, and in a way, I envy him for having been banned from such an oppressive disinfo pit like Chemtroll Central.

Today we were supposed to get a rare sunny day. It's been taken away from us here in Beantown. One jet was flying low and close enough for me to get a good look. It was all white and I could see the chemjunk coming directly out of the tail. There were no rear engines.

Here's another video which seems to show that chemjunk is often dispersed right out of the tails and have nothing to do with engine exhaust turning into ice crystals.

The Airnav Radar Proof


Some screenshots:








The poster identified the aircraft as this:





I did some basic engine searches. I think that is a GermanWings A-319. Here is an example of one:
jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6022879

A few links may help us to connect some dots.

cheapflights.co.uk/flights/2006/11/easyjet_buys_ne.html

Leading low-fares airline easyJet has unveiled a new plan to expand its fleet of aircraft following a 56 per cent increase in profits.

Despite incurring costs of about £4 million from the security alert in August, the orange-liveried carrier took in a pre-tax profit of £129 million over the 12 months to the end of September.

Scores of new routes and an increase in passenger numbers of more than 11 per cent greatly helped the company, which is now planning to buy 52 new Airbus A319 aircraft, with an option to buy up to 75 A320 planes....

EU investigates German, Finnish airport subsidies benefiting Ryanair, easyJet
signonsandiego.com/news/business/20070710-1033-eu-airportsubsidies.html

By Aoife White
ASSOCIATED PRESS

10:33 a.m. July 10, 2007

BRUSSELS, Belgium – EU regulators launched investigations Tuesday into government subsidies designed to attract airlines to small airports in Germany and Finland, singling out Ryanair Holdings PLC and easyJet for getting airport fees so low they may be illegal.

The European Commission opened separate investigations into Berlin Schoenefeld, Luebeck Blankensee and Dortmund airports in Germany and Tampere Pirkkala in Finland, saying it needed to check if low airport fees and favorable contracts might be a form of state aid that gives several airlines an unfair advantage over rivals.....

Could some chemjets be the same model as some airliner jets? I believe that to be the case. I believe, for example, that the MD-88, sorry if I ever post anything wrong, I am doing my best, I am saying that such a plane seems to be used by both military and airlines like Delta.

McDonnell-Douglas, which I now think is Boeing, has produced aircraft for both military and civilians.


germanwings

screenshot

That's from the cache page. If one goes to the current page, reference to McDonnell-Douglas is gone. There is no Boeing or anything in its place. Only the Airbus for its fleet.

I am not sure what the connection is between EasyJet and GermanWings. Things can get a bit confusing, I admit. There are degrees of proof. I have yet to see a white-out proven to have been created by airliners. I mean, I have yet to see the proof that all airliners are involved, that chemtrails are contrails. One thing I am sure of. Contrails are created by engine exhaust interacting with cold, ambient, humid air turning into the ice crystals. They do not form out of aircraft tails.