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Chemtrail Proof

dialogue and research on chemical trails

Unread postby socrates » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:25 pm

The following is very important to acknowledge. Dennis Kucinich clearly represented himself as being aware of chemtrails. From the Dr. Fitrakis article above:

Alive asked Kucinich why he would introduce a bill banning so-called chemtrails when the U.S. government routinely denies such things exist and the U.S. Air Force has routinely called chemtrail sightings “a hoax.”

“The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich responded. Kucinich says he plans to reintroduce a broader version of the bill later this month. “Plasma, electromagnetics, sonic or ultrasonic weapons [and] laser weapons systems” were among those banned by HR 2977.
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Unread postby socrates » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:43 pm

I sent off an e-mail today to local meteorologists asking them to take a look up at the skies and help figure this out and get it stopped.

Aircraft are creating fake overcasts; Please Stop Ignoring This!

Dear esteemed meteorologists,

Today, Thursday June 7th, 2007, we in the Boston area have yet again had our skies manipulated by aircraft. This is not a crazy internet theory. Yes, there is plenty of bizarre stuff on the net implying that there is a covert effort to make anyone questioning the composition of the skies appear kooky.

Paul Moyer of KNBC, Los Angeles, has covered this story twice. I have not seen any other news stations objectively cover this story except for him. I will give you links to the two stories done by Mr. Moyer.

Toxic Sky:

Toxic Sky part 2:

Are you under orders to not discuss this topic? Of course if you are, I will not be getting a straight answer anyways. But I do respect each of you. I have lived in the Boston area most of my life. I know the difference between contrails, persistent contrails, and then this crap we are witnessing.

This has nothing to do with commercial aircraft in my honest opinion. Military/NATO aircraft are being used. It doesn't take many of these fast unmarked jets to create a fake overcast.

Please, I implore you to all work together and get to the bottom of this. If we stick together as decent Americans, we can turn our country around.

Thank you for your time and consideration, a concerned citizen.

p.s. I would be willing to come out of the woodwork and reveal my identity, if you are willing to work on this story.

The easiest way to solve this would be to go up in aircraft ourselves and take samples of what are clearly not contrails or persistent contrails, but what is of the other "stuff." Yet unfortunately, that would cost an extreme amount of money, and we would also need to be ready at any time to synchronize the collection of such materials from when there are the actual military plumes, which are sometimes referred to as "chemical trails."

I don't remember aircraft ever creating total fake overcasts until the last ten years. I only ask that you all take a deep breath and sincerely consider that this isn't just a crazy internet hoax and is indeed taking place. History is calling on us to do the right thing. I am hopeful that we will be able to get to the bottom of this. The problem is that overall, this topic is being completely ignored.

I have written once before to a meteorologist, but he never responded. I did get published by Rosie O'Donnell on her blog. That exchange was used as a basis for a thread over at DBS.
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Unread postby socrates » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:22 pm

I just saw a post at Chemtrail Central that looks very promising. We can hope this is paydirt. Yet, "blookanoo" says he missed most of it. I sent him a private message to get a video up on youtube. Who do I think I am, voxfux, remember that guy? Ok, tape the show, present it to as many people as possible, then report back. Some dude called voxfux, oh, it doesn't matter....

Chemtrails on Daily Planet
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This is unbelievable! The Daily Planet(a Canadian science show on the Discovery Channel) did a segment on chemtrails today. I missed most of it , and plan to watch when it re-airs later tonight, but they were talking to scientists about the chemtrails being used as a sunscreen to counter global warming. They showed satellite images of massive spray operations. So, basically, they totally admitted it was happening. Then they casually change topics as if it's all no big deal. Wow. That's like saying, "It turns out that 911 really was an inside job...coming up, the latest on Paris Hilton."

How can this be? Is it just too obvious to surpress it any longer? They should devote an hour of serious coverage for such a monumental news item. But I guess they want to act like it's no big deal, so they present it like it's just another science story. This is the first time--that I am aware of anyway--that it has been admitted on national television that chemtrails are real. This is a big.
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Unread postby socrates » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:28 pm

False alarm with Blookanoo:
I finally saw the rest of the show, and I'm sorry to have to say I jumped the gun a bit on this one. The satellite images they showed (they are saying) were from ship exhaust(not likely) and the tecnique they were disscussing involved using water vapour for the sunscreen. Never the less, I think they are getting us ready for the real story(planes by the thousands spraying aluminum and barium) by presenting it the way they did. My apologies. My excitment got the better of me. Next time I'll make sure I have all the facts before I post.

This isn't the first time I've read about ship tracks being used as a "limited hangout."

I want to know why The Discovery Channel didn't take samples from chemtrail plumes. Rosalind Peterson said that was the plan, but then they backed out. They simply conducted tests on commercial jet fuel. The air force refused to give a sample. And i don't think it is all about air force jet fuel either. There are plenty of patents, inventions, and outright proof that the military has the capacity to produce fake cloud cover.

Fake "debunkers" have always been saying that it is up to the "chemmies" to prove they are real. Well, I am gonna say the same thing about debunkers in chemmie clothes. The two oldest posters of all time at the major forums are Deborah/ Foot Soldier and Chem11. They have been astroturfing the last year that chemtrails are from all aircraft. I believe that their view is the one that needs to be proven. All the eyewitness accounts of chemtrailing have been of fast jets making crazy, unorthodox maneuvers and at lower altitudes than the commercial jets tend to cruise.

I think that the website contrails.nl could be a setup. It is always being presented by "Deborah" as being proof that commercial aircraft are behind the fake cloud cover. Now I am not sure who is behind that website, but I have been noticing how it is being insidiously used in regards to the disinfo tactic of "the enigma." I just don't see how chemtrails being labelled as contrails proves anything. The big question is why can't the Jay Reynolds type debunkers or the debunkers in chemmie clothes come up with the proof that commercial aircraft are involved in the operations?

This is what I mean:
Contrails in Holland #2

posted by By Guest 9503 - On 2005-04-21 14:40:33
Contrails and aviation-induced cirrusclouds (aviationsmog) are bad enough, without any conspiracy-theories. I have made pictures of contrails and aviation-cirrus from 1995 until today. Contrails are bad news, also because they are being ignored by politicians, meteorologists and journalistst alike. That's the real conspiracy. Aviation is the sacred cow of our destructive ecoonomy. Please have a look at contrails.nl

This just doesn't line up with what eyewitnesses are seeing.
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Clarifications on Victoria, B.C. and Espanola, Canada

Unread postby socrates » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:17 pm

{on edit: We now know that Will Thomas and many others are disinfo scum.}

Here's more of the quote from Terry Stewart:

Mark, it's Terry Stewart, Victoria Airport Authority. Just calling you back from your comment. From what I gather, it's a military exercise, U.S. and Canadian air force exercise that's going on. They wouldn't give me any specifics on it. Hope that helps your interest. Very odd.

Photo of "Strange Contrails Over Victoria, B.C."
Tape Seems to Confirm Chemtrails A Military Operation

And from this source we find out who Mr. Stewart got his information from:

{on edit- this link is broken. use the second one courtesy of the wayback machine.)

Trail of Conspiracy- The Vancouver Courier by Robin Brunet

Code: Select all

{For Educational Purposes}
... Stewart phoned Canadian Forces Base Comox for information, and on Dec. 8, left this message on Porter's answering machine: "From what I gather, it's a military exercise, a U.S. and Canada Air Force exercise that's going on. They wouldn't give me any specifics on it. Hope that helps your interest."

Stewart's quote was printed in the March 22 edition of Whitley Strieber's Unknown Country web site with the headline: "Tape seems to confirm chemtrails a military operation." ...

As to the Espanola chemtrails, here is a Canadian govt. link which makes note of a petition from 500 citizens asking for answers. Chemtrails are very real.

36th Parliament, 2nd Session

Thursday, November 18, 1999

Aircraft Emissions

Mr. Gordon Earle (Halifax West, NDP): Mr. Speaker, over 500 residents of the Espanola area have signed a petition raising concern over possible government involvement in what appears to be aircraft emitting visible aerosols. They have found high traces of aluminum and quartz in particulate and rain water samples. These concerns combined with associated respiratory ailments have led these Canadians to take action and seek clear answers from this government.

The petitioners call upon parliament to repeal any law that would permit the dispersal of military chaff or of any cloud-seeding substance whatsoever by domestic or foreign military aircraft without the informed consent of the citizens of Canada thus affected.

Canadian Parliament: Nov. 18, 1999
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Chemtrails on the Discovery Channel

Unread postby socrates » Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:51 pm

Snowshoe Films
{more disinfo- global warming denial- this is the only true chemtrail website. the rest are full of ****.}


BEST EVIDENCE ON CHEMTRAILS: DISCOVERY CHANNEL Barium and aluminum are just two of the dangerous toxins that make up the chemtrail mix, prominent chemtrail researchers Rosalind Peterson (californiaskywatch.com) and Will Thomas (willthomas.net) report on in the documentary aired in the U.S. on Feb. 22, 2007. Best Evidence, a Toronto-based film group, also presents a number of NASA, NOAA and other U.S. government-related scientists and geo-engineers who either deny the existence of chemtrails (vs. contrails), or say that they’re crucial in “stopping global warming.” The program devotes about half of its time to chasing a red herring, that chemtrail additives are being slipped into commercial jet fuel tanks. Thanks to Brian Holmes for alerting us to the film. VIDEO LINK: holmestead.ca/chemtrails/discovery.html

Best Evidence’s documentary film on chemtrails is a valuable breakthrough. It’s no easy task to produce a program on such a carefully guarded topic and getting scientists from NOAA and NASA to sit down for an interview, and then manage to present it over cable television. Just airing the program enables people to actually look at the skies, for starters.

Chemtrail researcher Rosalind Peterson is given time to say the comprehensive spraying – of barium, aluminum and other toxic metals and molds - has to do “with military operations…secret government weather modification programs.”

Veteran journalist and chemtrail researcher Will Thomas is filmed saying that the particles sprayed are in the 10-micron range (a human hair is 100 microns) and invisible to the naked eye.

The program more or less assumes that chemtrails are distinct from contrails (though it gives voice to NASA and NOAA scientists who say “there’s no evidence of chemtrails” and that “the idea is just ludicrous”.

The program pits the three independent observers (Peterson, Thomas and Dickie) against eight U.S. government-connected engineers, scientists and EPA-linked corporate executives:

Atmospheric scientist Dr. Wayne Evans says that clouds reflect more sunlight back into space than they supply infrared heat back to earth.” Cirrus clouds, though, are different. “They actually radiate more heat energy than they reflect solar energy back into space. And therefore cirrus clouds contribute to global warming.” Dr. Evans explains that “contrails” become cirrus clouds, and therefore contrails contribute to global warming.

Wayne’s observation echoes 1996 U.K. study by the Scientists for Global Responsibility that says “the dangerous geo-engineering proposed by [Edward] Teller et al. would have would be absolutely ineffective in mitigating global warming for it would have the opposite effect!” The report noted further that this climate engineering research was funded by industries with vested interests in the continued high consumption of fossil fuels.”

NASA senior scientist Patrick Minnis at Langley Research Center says “The notion of chemtrails is just ludicrous. I’ve heard many ideas of why these contrails are called chemtrails and the reasons why they would be occurring and no one seems to agree on anything except that they’re not contrails. They don’t really have an explanation of what they are and they’re not willing really to look at the simplest explanation, that they’re contrails.”

Next Dr. Joseph Golden, NOAA “weather modification pioneer” is brought on to refute chemtrails: “No matter what we do, there are people who are convinced that something secretive is going on…There’s no evidence of chemtrails.” Golden was a member of StormFury (1962-1983) program that was finally shut down due to litigation from many victims of the artificially induced and re-directed hurricanes. If there’s any weather modification going on from contrails, Golden says, it’s inadvertent.

Dr. Tom Wigley, senior scientist with the National Center for Atmospheric Research, tells Best Evidence, “We’re certainly not going to do anything that might endanger the climate system.” He then avers that geoengineering is a strategy to combat global warming: “Geo-engineering has been around for a number of decades but because the climate system is changing more rapidly than we expected, then we’re resurrecting the idea and considering it more seriously.”

You will notice that the television documentary, following the lead of our cryptocratic government, switches gears. Wigley, along with those at Lawrence Livermore Labs, is an advocate of Aerial Obscuration. EPA-connected Weather modification entrepreneur Alvia Gaskill Jr. says “We don’t have a hundred years. We have maybe 20 years before we start seeing some of the serious effects of climate change…If we’re not going to be able to come up with replacement technologies in time, we’re not going to be able to regulate emissions in time, we’re really left with taking these other, other extraordinary means….We need to take advantage of everybody on this planet to help solve the problem of global warming. If we can do it with some form of climate engineering, all the better.”

Geoengineering will be accepted when Global Warming is established as fact in the public mind (the collective cognitive imperative, as Julian Jaynes has it). Gaskill Jr.’s Straussian neo-con contempt for the public, coupled with his freaked-out claim of Global Frying in 20 years, is reason enough reason for a climate engineering program.

Will Thomas says chemtrail spraying is part of “a deliberate project to slow down catastrophic global warming.” Though Thomas, unlike Gaskill, apparently, thinks the program is ‘reckless’.

So, you see, “global warming” is imbedded in the chemtrail documentary. Global warming is the collective cognitive imperative for North America and Europe: activistteacher.blogspot.com/2007/02/global-warming-truth-or-dare.html As Thomas says, the government (our rulers/the military) are going to go public with their chemtrail program, justified by the manufactured global warming crisis. It will, no doubt, exonerate the government and complicit corporations for collateral damage or “unintended” consequences.

As for the rest of the Discovery Channel-approved program, it’s filler of a red herring variety.

The narrator intones, “Only the chemtrails believers claim that secret additives in jet fuel are being used in weather modification experiments…People who research chemtrails are convinced there’s a conspiracy underway to change the weather…[they] have one key burden of proof working against their case. They have no means of capturing the chemical content they claim is so harmful to humans and the environment. The challenge for Best Evidence will be to devise a number of experiments to do just that.”

The television program then turns to a protracted experiment conducted by scientists at Kettering University, formerly General Motors University (name changed in 1998) which conducts test on fuel obtained from commercial jets. It tests negative for aluminum and sulfur. Nothing said about barium.

Best Evidence nicely admitted that they didn’t really examine the best evidence. The U.S. Air Force refused to have its fuel tested, so the elaborate test was almost totally irrelevant. And nothing at all was said about sprays being dispersed through external tanks as opposed to distribution through fuels.

As Will Thomas says in the documentary, the U.S. government in late 2005 established a federal bureau of weather modification as a rubric to “come out and admit to a chemtrail-type project.”

It would be of great interest to see Best Evidence (and Discovery Channel) examine the best evidence for global warming. Among those they might interview are climatologist Dr. Timothy Ball holmestead.ca/chemtrails/warming.html and University of Ottawa physicist Denis G. Rancourt: activistteacher.blogspot.com/2007/02/global-warming-truth-or-dare.html.

Filmmakers’ Notebook # 128
yor yevrah, snowshoefilms, March 11, 2007.

My Observations of the Show

This is my first post at Democratic Underground. I have been at the big chemtrail forums the last year but have come to the conclusion that those have all been infiltrated by disinformation. My goal is to make DU my home for chemtrail posts. I do not wish to step on the toes of the 9/11 crowd,but this is the only place here for me to post. I also think that it is time for this subject to make it to mainstream forums. The forums devoted to chemtrails simply have too much tinfoil by association happening. Even if good things are posted there, I believe that such truths become useless, buried under the tinfoil and other bs.

The only good thing I have to say about that show is that this subject has finally been somewhat addressed by national television. Paul Moyer of KNBC Los Angeles has delivered a couple 5 minute reports. There has been some sporadic news articles through the years. Now I have always wondered why the Discovery Channel or some of the others have never covered this. We get Big Foots, Bermuda Triangles, JFK, et al, but never chemtrails. I have always found this to be a striking fact. If someone has wondered about why certain aircraft have been mucking up the skies, they have had to go to the internet. And then when they do, they are given plenty o'reasons to think this is a crazy conspiracy theory.

It is not a crazy ct. Something changed almost ten years ago that has never been explained.Now all of a sudden people like Minnis are non-challantly passing this all off as being a result of increased air traffic.To have proper chemtrail research it will take at least about 5-10 sincere people to flesh it out. That is my goal here at DU. The old school arguments of debunkers are no longer accepted. They used to say that this was a crazy hoax, that people were suffering from clouditis.Now with the BBC show on global dimming, now with even Minnis saying that aircraft are reshaping the atmosphere, the old school angle is seen for the smarmy debunking that it was. Now is the time to get the truth out to the masses. It is now time for the real chemmies to step up to the plate.

I could go on and on, but since this is my first post, I will just focus in on my observations of the show. I think that the show was ultimately flawed for two basic reasons. One, because of the focus on jet fuel. Two, because the show kept mentioning global warming as being the key reason why such a program would be in place.

The chief assumption about the jet fuel fails to acknowledge the many inventions that have been produced for "contrail/fake cloud" generation. Also, the military refused to allow the show to test their jet fuel. I do believe that additives could be put into jet fuel as part of the program. However, sulfate specifications have been applied to commercial jet fuel. The mucking up of the skies does appear to have sulfates as a lead ingredient. What many may not realize is that the military does not have to comply with such specifications. I am not surprised that the military would refuse to offer their jet fuel for sampling. I am a bit surprised that they didn't supply some fake version of their fuel. I believe that the testing on the commercial fuel is evidence that the commercial aircraft are not involved. There are many on chemtrail forums who are really debunkers or worse in chemmie clothes. They are astroturfing that all aircraft are involved. Based on my observations, this couldn't be farther from the truth, and this is one of the reasons I do not believe that chemtrail forums are for real. It is easy to discount the orbs/aliens, population culling, mind control, biological innoculation, and chembuster theories. Yet when the so-called logical chemmies are astroturfing that all aircraft are involved, that is where I draw the line.

The second point I wanted to make is that all the emphasis on global warming now appears to be a strawman argument. Spraying has been observed at night. Such spraying keeps the solar radiation in, making the planet hotter. Also, if the chemtrails were to stop global warming, they apparently aren't working. And even if it is some type of Frankensteinian approach to combatting global warming, such a strategy has been argued to be best done in the stratosphere. What we have been witnessing is occuring in the troposphere.

It was telling to me that the show made no mention of the ozone holes. It is fairly well established that this is a huge problem which can only heal itself in 50-100 years. While the Montreal Protocols were a solid and necessary approach, it will take many, many decades before it is safe to spend much time outside in the sun. There was also a study done which showed that sulfates placed in the troposphere are very effective in attenuating the harmful effects of uv-b radiation.

This is my theory based on much research into this. I believe that chemtrails are all about the Frankensteinian management of the atmosphere while promoting the status quo of destroying the atmosphere. C02 takes many centuries to work itself out. These Frankenscientists and their corporate/military bosses are all about continuing the status quo. It would take a FDR like new deal to address the symptoms of the planet's duress. Their goals are to play God all in the name of profit.

I think that global warming is real, but that the program has accelerated this. I believe that "they" may even be doing this on purpose. Get everyone in a huff over this, and then they think they will get a blank check to "save the day". The problem with this being portrayed as good for us is that if it were, it would not be covert. These buggers in my honest opinion are up the creek trying to hurdle social and legal implications. Now, I do believe that much of what they are doing now can help "them" with their future plans to geoengineer the planet. So in a way this does have something to do with global warming. More important to them however is to keep the pig profits and continuous wars.

I have read some good threads here in the past on chemtrails. I believe that the few of us can get the ball rolling here at DU, and as the word spreads, more and more people will join in and help. I am not averse to debunkers. I am one obviously from the tinfoil by association argument made above. But I don't think it is worthwhile to interact with any debunker whose intent is to label this as crazy. I believe that there are fake believers and fake debunkers. The chemtrail forums are full of them. The chemtrail forums are not the place to go to figure this out.

I'll leave you all with one crazy quote from Colin Powell from 2002. What does it all mean Basil?

Colin Powell: "We are committed not just to rhetoric and to various goals, we are committed to a billion-dollar program to develop and deploy advanced technologies to mitigate greenhouse-gas emissions."


Now, I would just like to qualify my problems with websites like Rense, PrisonPlanet, ChemTroll Central, etc.. I am not saying people shouldn't read at those places. I am not saying that everything ever printed there is false. Yes, there is often times pure crap posted there. A long time ago Rense ran a big chemtrail piece arguing that chemtrails are all about population reduction, that the NWO elites wish to restore America to a natural paradise for the few survivors to enjoy. That to me reeked of tinfoil by association and the astroturfing that chemtrails are kooky.

Sometimes it is ok to go to the fringe websites in search of knowledge. Just be forewarned, that a lot of it is gonna be crazy, and the nuttiness is there to tarnish the facts also posted. This is Disinfo101.

But here is one Rense link where Patrick Minnis and a concerned skywatcher had polite, sincere interactions about the chemtrail controversy.

NASA Scientist Quoted In USA Today Talks About Chemtrails


From Clifford E Carnicom

A statement by a Mr. Patrick Minnis follows at the end of this page.

Let it be known for the record that:

Any statements, implications, or insinuations made by any individuals, including a Mr. Patrick Minnis, that I have received monetary compensation for personal gain for participation in any video documentary projects are PATENTLY FALSE and are herein refuted. Monetary compensation for personal gain is excluded as a factor in any research that I have conducted, am conducting, or will continue to conduct on the aerosol operations that are occurring without informed consent."

Those that wish to research this issue may wish to contact the publisher of any video or informational sources that are referred to. In addition, let it be known that I specifically did request that a written statement of non-compensation be included within the recent documentary that is most likely being referred to. I have not produced any videos to date, but I have contributed information to various sources for the public welfare.

Clifford E Carnicom Mar 08 2001


The following is an excerpt from a recent relayed posting on the Jeff Rense internet site (rense.com). The link to this page is entitled "Nasa Scientist Quoted in USA Today Talks About Chemtrails".

"Date 2-28-01
From: Patrick Minnis Subject: Jet aerosol spraying
CC: [email protected]

Dear xxx,

Your email, copied below, was forwarded to me because I conduct research on contrails. I am sorry to see that you have been misinformed about the nature of contrails. Unfortunately, there is an ample supply of people who are ready to spread rumors and propaganda to upset people simply to draw attention to themselves or to make a buck (e.g., Carnicom video). Because the origin of the secret plots promoted by these people is the government, it is automatically impossible for anyone from the government to refute the accusations."


Note - The following two inquiries and responses were sent in from a concerned citizen who wishes to remain anonymous. The responding scientist, Dr. Patrick Minnis, is quoted in the USA Today story about Chemtrails also posted in Headlines.


First letter to NASA and response from Dr. Patrick Minnis who works at NASA Langley Research Center.

(Note - the letter was originally sent to 'Mr. Gibson' and was forwarded to Dr. Minnis whose response follows below...)

From xxxx 2-28-01

Dear Mr. Gibson,

I am wondering how the American people can get any truthful information about the obviously classified aerial operations going on above our heads.

I have been observing this distressing phenomonon for 3/4 of a year now. It is pretty straight forward that the emissions from these mostly military aircraft are not just ice crystals and the planes that are emitting these substances are not flying regular aircraft routes. At this moment there are jets outside my house systematically working at hazing over the whole sky. This seems to happen alot before a front passes through. Whether this has to do with weather modification, biological neutalization, HAARP, solar shielding or other more sinister plots, oh yes, lets not forget some sort of missile defense, is what we are trying to find out. When the outdoor reflective conditions are just right, heavy fallout of different types can be observed, including highly charged metallic looking particles. Asthma and other illness are on the sharp increase.

I feel the American people deserve answers. I realize certain information must remain classified for national security and hopefully it's national security we are talking about. I guess I really don't expect the whole answer but am hoping for at least some sort of hint or guidance that could direct our laymen's research. There has to be better ways to approach whatever this aerial operation is supposed to remedy. I sincerely hope I will hear back from you and would look forward to any input you could offer.

Respectfully, John Smith _____

Date 2-28-01 From: Patrick Minnis [email protected]

Dear xxx,

Your email, copied below, was forwarded to me because I conduct research on contrails. I am sorry to see that you have been misinformed about the nature of contrails. Unfortunately, there is an ample supply of people who are ready to spread rumors and propaganda to upset people simply to draw attention to themselves or to make a buck (e.g., Carnicom video). Because the origin of the secret plots promoted by these people is the government, it is automatically impossible for anyone from the government to refute the accusations.

If I refute the notion that the government is spraying people, then I will be accused of lying and covering up. If I agreed to the idea of spraying, then I would be saying what you want to hear, but I really would be lying and would have to make up something. It would sure be exciting if there was something sinister about contrails. But, it really is just not very exciting, just a meteorological phenomenon. Then again, I find the study of these human-clouds very interesting.

Truth is, contrails form from the exhaust of high-altitude aircraft, commercial and military, whenever they fly into air that has the proper humidity and temperatures. The mixing of the hot moist exhaust with the cold air cases the formation of ice crystals that will either grow or sublime (evaporate). Sometimes, they will make short, short-lived contrails. Sometimes they will make long, long-lived contrails that spread out and cover the sky. It all depends on the meteorological conditions at the flight altitude. The reason you see the heavy duty contrails most often prior to a frontal passage is that the air ahead of a cold front is rising and is moist. Rising cools the air and increases the relative humidity. The higher the relative humidity, the more likely you will see spreading contrails. Often these spreading contrails ahead of a front are followed by cirrus clouds generated naturally without the extra oomph provided by aircraft exhaust.

Ait traffic is increasing, so contrails are increasing. Because contrails are increasing, cirrus cloud cover is increasing. Thus, it could be said that air traffic is modifying the weather. However, the modification is not planned, nor is it desired. It is an artifact of the technology, just like air pollution in the city occurs because of the autombile exhaust.

For more information, I would recommend that you check out my web site, www-pm.larc.nasa.gov, click on SASS.

If you need any copies of the article listed in the references, let me know.

Sincerely, Patrick Minnis

Dr. Patrick Minnis MS 420 NASA Langley Research Center Hampton, VA 23681-0001

757-864-5671 fax: 757-864-7996 [email protected] www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/pages/minnis_home.html


Second letter to and response from Dr. Minnis

From xxxx 3-2-01

Dear Dr. Minnis,

I want to thank you for taking the time to answer my e-mail. Some of what you said makes sense to me however there are still many questions. Obviously you have a much more extensive knowledge of atmospheric conditions than I do.

Either the components of our atmosphere have changed drastically in the past couple of years or the fuel mixture of some jets has been altered. Granted, air traffic has increased and this can account for the large number of trails. However my observations are more centered on the characteristics of the contrails and the manner in which they are laid down. Many of these "contrails" have a very specifically different texture, quality and brightness than the old fashioned contrails. I have taken some truely bizarre photos which will be presented at a scientific conference in Toronto in March.

Can you tell me anything about titanium dioxide?

I have come across a patent for Powder Contrail Generation that appears to have been issued to the Secretary of The Navy back in 1974. This patent describes the apparatus used to disperse light scattering pigment powder particles in a manner that would prevent them from clumping together. Here are a few excerpts Pat. no. us3899144


1. Contrail generation having maximum radiation scattering ability for a given weight material.

9. The method of producing a light scattering contrail comprising.

a. surface treating light scattering powder particles to minimize interparticle cohesive forces.

b. deagglomerating said powder particles in two stages prior to dispensing into a jet tube by subjecting said powder particles to a hammering action in the first stage to aerate and precondition the powder, and by passing said powder through a jet mill in the second stage to further deagglomerate the powder.

c. dispensing the deagglomerated powder from the jet mill directly into a jet tube for exhausting said powder into the atmosphere thus forming a contrail.

The present invention is also suitable for use in other aircraft vehicles to generate contrails for any desired purpose.

Titanium dioxide pigment was selected as the primary light scattering material because of it's highly efficient light scattering ability and commercially available pigment grades.

Other type powder compositions can also be used with the apparatus described herein. For example, various powder particles which reflect electromagnetic radiation can be dispensed as a chaff or the like from the contrail generator.

Obviously, many modifications and variations of the present invention are possible in the light of the above teachings. It is therefore to be understood that within the scope of the appended claims, the invention may be practiced otherwise than specifically described."

If this technology was available in1974, I can only imagine what is now available.

There are also patents for scattering aluminum particles into the atmosphere for the purpose of solar shielding. If contrails are an increasing cause of global warming, as you say, then it would make sense that to counteract this they could be spraying aluminum particles or other reflective elements to direct the radiation back out of the environment. I believe the goal at one point was to reduce this problem by at least 1%.

Do you think the reflective and at times highly charged particles I am seeing in the atmosphere can be attributed to the above or could what I'm seeing be connected with metallic particles produced from jet fuel combustion?

I spoke to Lisa Chang (jet exhaust researcher) whom you may know, and she suggested that somehow we collect samples of the fallout we're seeing. She said that in order for them to investigate, the samples would have to be collected first. I would think that this would be their job. If she has any clue as to what I'm seeing, she would know that we would have to have access to very expensive high tech equipment. To begin with some of the particles we are talking about are submicron in size and also this particulate matter can only be observed under highly specific reflective conditions. Once the fallout passes through this zone, it is invisible to the naked eye.

I have spoken to several commercial airline and recreational pilots. A couple of them assured me that what they were observing was not normal aircraft activity.

I have also spoken with a retired military official and showed him some info about TARFOX. His reply was "I see the good ole boys are still at it." and he proceeded to tell me all about aircraft shielding.

So, I am sure there are still some normal contrails left somewhere but it cannot be said that all the ones we are seeing are just composed of ice crystals. If anything there has to be experimentation going on and it would be ludicrous to deny an absolute absence of that. Even on the news the other night they were beginning to admit work with weather modification. That aspect is almost a given fact.

I don't know how much information you are privy to but it would seem impossible for you to be aware of every classified operation. I am not trying to be antagonistic but I feel and I want to convey to you that people have very legitimate reasons for being suspicious. We are seeing very different patterns of jet activity than a few years back and as I mentioned before, the texture, quality, brightness and dispersion of the trails are also very different from what has been observed in the past.

Many of us do remember, we don't all have Alzheimer's yet, despite the fact that aluminum, in quite a few rainwater samples has been found to be 7 times the accepted limit.

I want to thank you again for responding and I appreciate the opportunity to talk this over with you. I'm impressed that time is taken to explain things to the common person. If you have any more thoughts on the subject I would enjoy hearing from you.

Sincerely, xxxx _____

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 To: xxxx From: Patrick Minnis
Dear xxxx,

Thanks for your courteous and rational letter. I have had plenty that were not.

I understand your concerns about the increase in contrails and why you may be skeptical that they are not "regular" contrails.

I will be the first to admit that I do not know everything about every government program, especially those conducted by the Air Force. I am well aware, however, of the cost, manpower, and complexity involved in conducting even a small-scale experiment in the upper troposphere where jet aircraft usually cruise.

I am also aware that the Air Force is extremely interested in protecting their aircraft and have long sought methods for shielding them from detection or tracking by missile systems designed to knock them out of the skies. Most of those efforts have been to produce short-term, immediate protection like chaff.

Obviously, development requires testing of various materials and there are probably numerous other materials that have been examined for such purposes. I believe aluminum foil flakes have been established as one of the primary chaff types. Titanium dioxide has long been used as the pigment of choice for making white paint because of its light scattering properties as noted below. However, because of the weight constraints on airplanes and the type of dispersal patterns, I would suspect that foil flakes would be preferable. However, I don't know if TiO2 or any other chemical types are used for chaff. But remmeber, chaff is designed for protection from an immediate threat. It would not make any sense to be spraying it for anything other than a short burst during training exercises or real combat. Therefore, I would have to rule out the chaff aspect.

I would also rule out the climate modifcation aspect. The effort would be too expensive, require too much manpower and equipment and probably would not work. Large, climate-changing programs have been hypothesized and written about for years, but inevitably they are pie in the sky. Maybe pies in the sky would change climate. Man's efforts to affect the weather are typically unplanned, like air pollution, city heat islands, contrails, etc. Weather modification is something that people have been trying for years with mixed success. It will continue to go on. But at the scale that would be associated with climate change? I doubt very seriously.

By the way, TARFOX was an experiment designed to study atmospheric aerosols. It was conducted off the east coast durign the summer so that they woul dbe sure to get lots of nasty aerosols coming off the continent. The "good ole boys" were just a bunch of NOAA, NASA, University, and foreign scientists interested in various aspects of measuring aerosols and their effects.

The reasons that you are seeing more contrails and more bizarre-looking contrails now than before are many. Primarily, I believe that awareness of contrails is the biggest factor. Honestly, how closely did you or anyone else look at the skies before being made aware of "chemtrails"? I have been studying clouds for 25 years and did not really become aware of the vast variety of contrail shapes, spreadings, colors, etc. until I heard there was going to be a NASA-sponsored study of them bac in 1993. Then, I started looking in the skies with an eye for contrails, and lo and behold, there is a lot of wierd-looking stuff going on. But that wierd stuff is simply nature taking its course after the aircraft exhaust mixes with the ambient air.

The process of contrail formation is lot like a snowflake. The course of a contrail's existence is uniquely determined by humidity, temperature, winds, and nucleation (in the case of contrails: aircraft type, engine type, fuel, acceleration, and state of the engine). Thus, an incredible array contrails can and does form. There is really no such thing as an old-fashioned contrail. They have been doing this stuff all along but were not noticed. Another factor is the increase in air traffic. Have a look at the flight frequencies plotted on my web page. There are a lot of planes out there.

Another factor causing more contrails is an increase in jet engine efficiency. More of the engine energy is being converted to thrust, so there is less heat in the exhaust making contrail formation easier (a cooler mix, sam e amount of water vapor). Thus, contrails are forming more frequently even without an increase in planes.

I went on a bit long here and need to return to my work. I spend far too much time answering emails like these and not documenting my results in papers. But keeping the public informed is part of what the taxpayers expect for their money and I don't mind doing it.

I hope I have answered some of your concerns.

Sincerely, PM


Third letter to and response from Dr. Minnis

From xxxx 3-2-01

Dear Dr. Minnis,

You are right, aircraft shielding would be a short term manuever and wouldn't account for what we are seeing. I guess i mentioned that aspect because of the following. I had spoken to a Major Bigelow (Air National Guard) who had informed me that he had been an airforce pilot and assured me that" the airforce doesn't spray ( then he hesitated and said they don't spray anything", which I know is an untruth because the airforce does spray different substances for varied purposes.

I'm going to give you more credit than I think you give to yourself. As you have mentioned you have been studying clouds 25 years prior to the 1993 NASA study. I would place a bet on it that if the "unusual" contrails had been around before that , you would have noticed them. The obvious contrails we are talking about are not hiding in some other dimension until you are alerted to observe them. It seems to me that, again, if you have been observing the sky so closely , with a scientific eye, for 25 years prior to this NASA study and only noticed the bizarre trails when they basically told you to look for them, then to me this raises a bright red flag.

It does seem that climate engineering would be a very expensive operation but according to The National Center for Policy Analysis " deliberately introducing fine particles into the atmosphere in order to scatter sunlight and heat back into space, it would cost as much as 1 billion a year or just 100 million if technology advanced options were employed that would be between 0.1% and 1% of the 100 billion a year it is estimated would be required to price ration fossil fuel usage down to the 1990 levels in the United States alone.

The Global Change Research Coordination Office has been promoting geoengineering for 3 decades. Teller and his colleagues presented their proposal for geoengineering at the 22ond International Seminar on Planetary Emergencies in Aug. 1997". It was around this time or shortly after that the public began noticing the contrail phenomonon on such a massive scale.

The Global Climate Change Digest- Aug. 1996 - "The Economic Diplomacy of Geoengineering" - "Geoengineering projects can probably be accomplished by exo-national programs, not depending on the behavior of populations, not requiring national regulations or incentives and not depending on universal participation. It will involve merely deciding what to do, how much to do and who is to pay for it."

This past fall I went on a trip to Costa Rica. I thought it was very interesting that despite all the air traffic, there was not 1 contrail to be seen the whole 10 days I was there. The clouds seemed normal size, texture and shape and it turned out to be truely a vacation in more ways than one. :=) Only certain countries seem to be reporting the unusual contrails. I would be interested in hearing your observations in relation to this aspect.

One of the points you brought up made sense to me and was very interesting. It gives me something to think about and that was the fact that the efficiency of the jet engine has increased and as a result there is less heat in the exhaust which makes it easier for contrails to form. My husband tests jet engines and may know something about this.

I'm really not writing you for sparring purposes but I really feel that sharing ideas and other perspectives gives any of us a broader outlook on certain situations. Even though I am not a scientist, I have had certain experiences and am working with certain institutions which help give me insight and enable me to see how some of the puzzle pieces fit together. I am not claiming to have answers but in order to get answers we all have to challenge our preconcieved ideas of reality. I think one of society's problems is that everyone is too specialized and as a result we really only see a small piece of the puzzle. This is very evident in the medical community and through personal situations I have experienced the problems and politics in this area. This in turn has led me to observe similar deception in other areas.

Over the past year an anonymous team of organized professionals from scientific, military and security backgrounds, have been researching these aircraft emissions and their possible applications. From the information they've gathered, some of the emissions appear to be composed of a base barium salt mixture. Several types of experimental polymer fibers have been repeatedly found subsequent to observed aerosol discharge. DARPA documents describe research into electroactive polmer fibers. This may have something to do with the electrically charged particles I am seeing. It is thought that the combination of these airborne particles is contributing to the very sharp increase rate of asthma and other respiratory illnesses.

Through the study of military and scientific documents this investigative team has come up with several apparent applications of the barium salts and polymer fibers. These applications include (a). aircraft cloaking when irradiated. (b) Advanced radar applications (c) Biological applications - delivery, decontamination and detection. (d) communications applications (e) Military weather modification (f) other applications including VTRPE propagation.

There seems to be military projects and experiments going on at every level of the atmosphere and therefore it is very difficult to separate out what is causing what. This amy also explain why 1 explanation doesn't seem to fit what we are seeing.

In closing, I just want to say that there is a deliberate and systematic manner in which the mostly military jets haze over the sky. When apparently finished whiting out the sky in a specific area with trails that are formed basically at the same time ( this can be determined by the width of each trail) they move on to the next patch of blue sky. After the whole sky is complete( which sometimes only takes a short while), blue patches will appear during the day.

More jets will reinforce these areas. Complete cloud or haze cover is often the obvious goal. There are usually no military air shows going on so there would be no reason for the vast amount of military jet activity in each concentrated area.

I appreciate your comment that my last letter was rational. I have had chronic neurologic Lyme Disease for the past 10 years which has affected my cognitive and organizational abilities. I have to work very hard at writing so that I am understood.

You seem like a very reasonable person and I hope you will continue to keep an open mind. The information I've presented is not proof of anything but I feel there is enough evidence out there that should cause us all to take a deeper look into this issue. We also need more accountability from some of these unelected Global Think Tanks and the UN which may be the main forces behind these operations. I visited your website briefly but want to go back when I have more time to look it over well. I am very grateful for you correspondence.

Thank you again, xxxxx _____

Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 From: Patrick Minnis
Dear xxxx,

Thanks for your thoughtful and interesting email.

I do try to keep an open mind, but then again, I have a lot of trouble with the notion of the observed trails being the result of spraying for climate purposes or for imbuing the populace with some sort of toxin/vaccine/microchip/etc.

Because of my experience with meteorology, I am continuously baffled by the complexity of our atmosphere and of man's attempts to conciously alter it successfully for a particular goal. As I think I mentioned in the last email, the theories such as those you mention below (Teller) are still pie in the sky.

The best way to get a scattering effect that wil do anything is to load up the stratosphere with submicron sized particles. To accomplish anything noticeable in terms of a climate effect you would have to loft material equivalent in weight/particle number to that injected by a volcano of the magnitude of El Chichon or greater, more like Pinatubo in size.

That would mean the planes would have to deposit 20,000,000 tons of material in the stratosphere every 2 or 3 years. To keep it up there, it would be best to place it in the Tropics meaning they would have to reach altitudes of 55,000 to 60,000 ft. To match the Pinatubo output, this means for the miltary's C-141B Starlifter with a capacity of 34.3 tons, it would require only 20,000,000 / 34.3 = 582,030 flights in the course of say, 3 years or roughly 195,000 flights each year or 531/day just to go up and spray a bunch of junk into the stratosphere. How much fuel do you think that would require?

If the military had 747s, then the number would drop by a third. But here is the problem. The volcanos put the material at altitudes above 60,000 ft. There are very few planes that can reach those altitudes and cargo planes are not included in that bunch. Most of them fly below 45,000 ft.

They could only reach the stratosphere in polar regions and over the US during the winter.

As far as the apparent start of contrail spreading during 1993 and the public awareness after 1997. AS evidenced by the large numbre of people who upon being told to look at the sky and notice contrails finally notice them, I have put myself in that same category. I have not been researching the details of the clouds but rather have been using relatively low-resolution geostationary satellite data that make it difficult to track contrails. And believe me, if you don't have some otion of what you are looking for in satellite imagery, you won't see it.

Watching the History Channel last night reminded me once again how long the "megasprayer" has been around. Even the bombers during WW-II produced massive spreading contrails. No, spreading contrails have been around a long time.

I believe the heightened public awareness was set off by the SUCCESS experiemnt which was conducted during 1996. It received a lot of press coverage, especially my study of spreading contrails that demonstrated for the first time just how easily contrails spread into cirrus clouds. It was covered by a variety of environmentalist type magazines, NPR, NBC, CNN, USA Today, and a number of other newspapers. That type of coverage will get the attention of a few people who will try to verify for themselves what is going on. We were able to track contrails then because the new geostationary satellites have much higher resolution than earlier ones. Then we were able to develp a predictive model for determining when they will spread and when they won't. We are currently tesing it. Teller had nothing to do with public awareness of contrails.

Why do you not see contrails in Costa Rica? First, air traffic over Costa Ria is relatively light. Second, and more important, the conditions for contrail formation are generally too high for most commercial air traffic (the old tropics vs polar effect). Temperatures at flight altitudes in the US are usaully low enough during the fall, winter, and spring but much less frequently dutring the summer. That is why we have a dramatic decrease in contrails during the summer. In the tropics the temperatures at flight altitudes are like our summer (southern US anyway), so we do not see too many contrails in places like Costa Rica.

I agree that we are all very specialized and cannot see the big picture. I am not convinced that anyone really has a good sense of the big picture. Perhaps, the Air Force is conducting some tests likeyou have suggested. evenso, they don't have the bucks to do anything on a massive scale unless it is to fight a war.

Thanks for the thoughts. Pat M

{more at link}

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Unread postby socrates » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:40 pm

Chemists Study Mysterious Substance

It didn't rain cats and dogs, apparently something strange did come from the sky in Bucks County. As we first told you on 69 News Tuesaday, a Perkasie resident contacted us after he found a strange substance all over his yard after a rainstorm. Today WFMZ's Joscelyn Moes called up a couple of chemists at Kutztown University to help her crack the case. Jim McClelland I just have no idea what it is. >> Reporter Jim McClelland is not alone. He found this sparkly stuff all over his yard in Perkasie following a rain storm Monday night.

Jim McClelland It looked like someone took a cooler full of small ice cubes and just dumped it across the ground in the backyard. It was just all spread across the dirt.

At first he thought it was hail ... but when it didn't melt and he picked it up ... he knew that wasn't the case. Since this story first aired ... we've received dozens of calls from 69 News viewers speculating about the substance. Some believe it was caused by a lawn or gardening chemical. To clear things up ... we took a sample of the stuff to a couple of chemists at Kutztown University. They say they'd never seen anything like it. >>

1:07-1:10--Dr. Dan Blanchard: It looks like badly made gelatin that's about it.

Dr. Dan Blanchard and Dr. Thomas Betts say they'll run some tests to try and figure out what it is and where it came from. They say they'll start simple.

Dr. Dan Blanchard- Adding materials to it and seeing how it reacts with them.

And then get a little more complex.

-Dr. Thomas Betts: One that we could do is just dry it out and see how much water it absorbs to see if it's one of those super absorbent polymers.

Dr. Thomas Betts: Given how localized it is. It might be a possibility.

The tests are expected to take a couple of days. So for now it's still a mystery ... and everybody loves one of those. Joscelyn Moes ... 69 News.


This sounds similar to another story that came out many years ago. And if one wants to read about this one, they are probably gonna end up at ChemTroll Central. Sigh.

From a Post I Made at DBS

Ok, I just reread through the Aajonus Vonderplanitz, Ph.D. article.

...Examining collected material from the spray, a University of Michigan lab found pseudomonas fluorescens. That is the bug tested on Oakville residents. It can cause human infections including fatal shock. The military likes it because it glows and allows them to track its path. Pathogens, including staph and several fungi that can cause lung disease were found in the chemical mix....

He mentioned Oakville. Here is that story, courtesy of everyone's buddy, Robert Stack.

May 8, 1997, Unsolved Mysteries

Robert Stack: It came from the skies to wreck havoc on the earth. It sounds like a bad science fiction movie, but for the little town in Washington there was nothing entertaining about the scourge that befell them in 1994. Six times it rained down from above, leaving dozens of local residents ill, and several pets and small animals dead. It all happened in Oakville, Washington, population 665. Here in Oakville, clouds fill the skies daily, bringing rain some 275 days a year. So, when it began pouring on the morning of August 7, 1994, no one was particularly concerned - until they realized it wasn't raining rain. It was raining tiny blobs of gelatinous goo. It came down in torrents, blanketing 20 square miles, and brought with it something of a plague.

Maurice Gobeil (local resident): I got sick, my wife got sick, my daughter got sick and everybody that lived here got sick.

Beverly Roberts (local resident): Everybody in the whole town came down with something like the flu, only it was a really hard flu that lasted from seven weeks to two or three months.

Robert Stack: The local police were among the first to report the perplexing precipitation. Officer David Lacey was on patrol with a civilian friend at 3am when the downpour began.

David Lacey (police officer): We turned our windshield wipers on, and it just started smearing to the point where we could almost not see. We both looked at each other and we said 'gee this isn't right'. We're out in the middle of nowhere, basically, and where did this come from?

Robert Stack: Officer Lacey pulled into a gas station to de-goo his windshield. As an added precaution, he put on a pair of latex gloves.

David Lacey (police officer): The substance was very mushy, almost like if you had jello in your hand. You know, you could pretty much squish it through your fingers. We knew it wasn't something we would normally see, because we had never experienced it before. We had some bells go off in our heads that said that basically 'this isn't right, this isn't normal.

Robert Stack: Local resident Dotty Hearn was equally baffled. By the time she stepped outside that morning, the storm had ended, but the blobs were everywhere.

Dotty Hearn (local resident): It looked like hail, laying on top of the wood box and everywhere else, so I just went over and I touched it. It wasn't hail. It was a gelatinous material.

Robert Stack: By mid-afternoon, officer Lacey had inexplicably taken ill.

David Lacey (police officer): I was to the point where I could hardly breathe. I started to put together that possibly whatever the substance was, it had made me violently sick and ill like I had never been before, to the point where it just totally shut me down.

Robert Stack: Across town, Dotty Hearn wasn't fairing much better.

Dotty Hearn (local resident): I started feeling dizzy, and everything started moving around. It got worse, and as it did I became increasingly nauseated.

Robert Stack: An hour later, Dotty's daughter and son found her sprawled on the bathroom floor.

Sunny Barclift: She was cold, drenched with perspiration and pale. My mom had been vomiting, had extreme vertigo and had been complaining that she had extreme difficulty with her vision.

Robert Stack: Dotty would spend the next three days in the hospital. They diagnosed her with "a severe inner ear infection.

Sunny: For some reason, as we were going out the door, I remembered the substance, and I wondered if perhaps it might have had some sort of effect on her. So, I opted at that moment to take a sample of the gelatinous material to the hospital.

Robert Stack: A lab technician found the first startling clue. The substance contained human white blood cells, but exactly what it was could not be determined. The goo was promptly forwarded to the Washington State Department of Health for further analysis.

Mike McDowell (microbiologist, WSDH): It was very uniform. There was no structure that we could see visibly with a microscope. I set it up on various microbiological media and attempted to isolate bacteria.

Robert Stack: Mike McDowell discovered that the sample was literally teaming with two species of bacteria, one of which make its home in the human digestive system.

Sunny: The initial speculation was that it might have been human waste from an airliner, however that was out, because under FAA regulations aircraft waste matter is dyed blue. This material was not blue, but crystal clear in color.

Robert Stack: The blobs rained down over Oakville six times over a three week period. Dozens of people took ill and many animals died after coming into contact with the toxic droplets. But the nature of the substance, and any connection it may have had with the outbreak, remained a mystery. Dotty took a sample of the material to a private research lab.

Tim Davis (Microbiologist, Amtest Labs): Here we have sample 128-76. I saw what I think was a eukaryotic cell, which was basically a cell that has a definable nucleus and is present in most animals.

Robert Stack: Translation? The goo was alive. How in the world did living matter make its way into the clouds? It was as mind-boggling as the substance itself. Perhaps inevitably, the finger of suspicion was pointed directly at the military. The Air Force denies any knowledge of the substance, or any involvement in creating or dispersing it. Local residents, however, don't buy it.

Sunny: We had a significant number of military aircraft flying over the home prior to this happening.

Dotty: Every day almost, there were low flying helicopters that were black in color. We kind of thought it might have come from them.

Maurice: They let off things in the air all the time here. There's testing done all over the place. There are places you can't go into.

Robert Stack: Translation - germ warfare. However, it seems unlikely, given the severe international restrictions regarding experiments with biological weapons in populated areas. At present, it is impossible to say what this goo was or where it came from. Unfortunately, all samples of this substance are gone, making further study impossible. Perhaps the answer will come someday soon, when the skies open up over another small community, and the blobs once again fall to earth.


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Unread postby socrates » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:39 pm

I thought I'd try something new. I found a chemtrail forum which seems to probably have a boatload of good info. I can't vouch for it all, because I don't know Italian.


I am simply going to try my best to translate what comes out of the archaic, robotic, internet, translating machines. Here goes. Wait a sec, I just found an English version for the link given below to the European Parliament website. The forum comments, I'll try to translate as best I can. 8)

Subject: Dutch interrogation presented to the European Parliament

posted by tupix: In May, the European Parliament was interrogated by the Dutch about the chemical trails:

European Parliament
Parliamentary questions
10 May 2007

WRITTEN QUESTION by Erik Meijer (GUE/NGL) to the Commission

Subject: Aircraft condensation trails which no longer only contain water but cause persistent milky veils, possibly due to the presence of barium, aluminium and iron

1. Is the Commission aware that, since 1999, members of the public in Canada and the USA have been complaining about the growing presence in the air of aircraft condensation trails of a new type, which sometimes persist for hours and which spread far more widely than in the past, creating milky veils which are dubbed ‘aerial obscuration’, and that the new type has particularly come to people's attention because it is so different from the short, pencil-thin white contrails which have been a familiar sight ever since jet engines came into use and which remain visible for 20 minutes at most and can only be produced if steam condenses on dust particles due to low temperatures and high humidity?

2. Is the Commission aware that investigations by these complainants, observations by pilots and statements by government bodies increasingly suggest that what is happening is that aircraft are emitting into dry air small particles consisting of barium, aluminium and iron, a phenomenon which in public debate in America has come to be known as chemtrails?

3. Unlike contrails, chemtrails are not an inevitable by-product of modern aviation. Does the Commission know, therefore, what is the purpose of artificially emitting these Earth-derived substances into the Earth's atmosphere? Does it help to cause rain, benefit telecommunications or combat climate change?

4. To what extent are aerial obscuration and chemtrails now also being employed in the air over Europe, bearing in mind that many people here too are now convinced that the phenomenon is becoming increasingly common and are becoming concerned about the fact that little is so far known about it and there is no public information on the subject? Who initiates this spraying and how is it funded?

5. Apart from the intended benefits of emitting substances into the air, is the Commission aware of any possible disadvantages it may have for the environment, public health, aviation and TV reception?

6. What is being done to prevent individual European states or businesses from taking measures unilaterally whose crossborder impact other States or citizens' organisations may regard as undesirable? Is coordination already taking place with regard to this? Is the EU playing a part in it, or does the Commission anticipate a future role, and what are the Commission's objectives in this connection?

posted by Straker:Thanks, tupix. This one escaped our notice! :)

posted by Astral2012: ...aah, it is said that the Dutch are always ahead of the curve...

posted by Crazy Chemtrail: Spain lacks attention, France, the Portugese.... in Italy, what a change... what I do not understand is that it's been since 1999 that it started. The only ones to have open commission parliamentarians denouncing this are from foreign countries. One questioned what is up with the meteorological crews provoking the disasters that the Romanians are enduring.

posted by Salmon: Thank you Tupix for the find! :wink: :wink: :wink:

posted by fabios:
Spain lacks attention, France, the Portugese.... in Italy, what a change... what I do not understand is that it's been since 1999 that it started. The only ones to have open commission parliamentarians denouncing this are from foreign countries. One questioned what is up with the meteorological crews provoking the disasters that the Romanians are enduring.

It is frightening what is going on in Eastern Europe during this period, entire harvests are up in smoke.

posted by Straker: Thanks to chemtrails and HAARP. Too bad we joined NATO and the European Union.

posted by Crazy Chemtrail: Hottest temperatures in 45 years. My Romanian friend filled me in, so therefore I know what I am talking about. The past year they witnessed from 50 km from Bucharest while on a train ride a tornado... {me-Socrates. Can't follow what he is saying too well}

I have the films and the photos.... and I assure to you that they aren't pretty.

The chemtrails weren't there until they officially joined in the European union, for this vadim tudor minister and former general has denounced and opened a commission parliamentarian on the drastic meteorological changes of the country, accusing Russia and their use of meteorological crews.

posted by fabio: Now there is much activity in Romania, Ukraine, and Moldavia.

posted by Trinity: Many thanks tupix :wink:

{to Crazy Chemtrail}Do you have any info or links you can help us out with?

Here are the answers given to the Dutch group:

Answer given by Mr Dimas
on behalf of the Commission

1. The Commission is aware of claims that such trends and phenomena exist. However, the Commission is not aware of any evidence substantiating such claims. The extent to which aircraft condensation trails form and the speed at which they disappear are in the first instance determined by pressure, temperature, and the relative humidity of a given flight level. Fuel and combustion properties and the overall propulsive efficiency may also have an impact. Any changes or trends in the extent to which contrails are reported to remain visible and develop into more widespread clouds may thus be due to factors such as changes in

- meteorological conditions
- traffic volumes
- jet-engine efficiency

2. The Commission is aware of such claims but is not aware of any evidence that particles of barium, aluminium or iron are being emitted, deliberately or not, by aircraft.

3. No. It cannot be precluded that the release of such particles might affect precipitation and climate change, but as indicated above the Commission is not aware of any evidence that such releases take place.

4. The Commission is not aware of any evidence that such methods are being employed in Europe.

5. None of the substances referred to are hazardous per se, but some effects on environment and public health can not be ruled out if large scale releases to the air occurred.

6. As indicated above the Commission is not aware of any evidence suggesting that there is any reason to act.
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Unread postby socrates » Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:16 pm

I found a thread discussing this topic at Carnicom's. Two links were given. Now both links do not work. It appears that scrub jobs are becoming more common on the internet.

White powder coats a town in Monroe County, MI

Thread started August 1st, 2007
thetruth: Yesterday I saw on the local news that a town had been coated in a "white gritty powder substance". Locals said that it happended at night after a low flying plane passed overhead. On a later report, police said it was likely from a local energy plant and the plane was a coincidence. The state police said they had taken samples of the powder to be identified, and that they should have the results later this week....but for some reason, I doubt we will ever get those results, and that the offical answer will be that it was the DTE plant.

Here is the story:

{me-socrates- if you go to this link, you get the following message:
"The article requested can not be found! Please refresh your browser or go back."}

zozeg: For some reason the link doesn't work....


Mysterious powder dropped in county
Published: July 31, 2007

Law enforcement officials are trying to determine the identity of a substance that was dropped from a low-flying airplane in the Bolles Harbor area Monday morning.

Although federal officials have been notified, they do not feel there is a threat.

The Monroe County Sheriff's Office reported the plane dropped a white powder substance about 8:22 a.m. Samples have been collected and were sent to the Michigan State Police crime lab for analysis.

The FBI in Detroit and Washington were notified, as well as Homeland Security. Investigation is continuing.

Some residents in the Bolles Harbor and Avalon Beach area saw the substance covering their property this morning. It wasn't as obvious on grass or vegetation, but was covering other surfaces.

Don Dezell, a Winthrop St. resident, said he noticed it when he went outside this morning.

"It was like brown sprinkles around the pool, all over the porch, on the mailbox, on my truck," he said. "It looks like little dots. You can walk on it, and it doesn't stick to your clothes."

His wife described it as a tan substance, almost talc-like. Mr. Dezell washed it off surfaces with no problem.

"We were just wondering what it was because it was all over everything."

I tried sorethroat's link and got this message:

I only have one question. WTF? :evil:

{on edit: I went to the googler for this one. I have found a link that works. What I don't understand is why the url address for this story got changed.}

[url=http://www.monroenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070730/NEWS01/107310022]NEW TODAY:
Mysterious powder[/url]
dropped in county

{on edit- concerning the next link, one has to pay cash to read articles past 7 days old. Even the wayback machine isn't working.Wtf? There are a lot of pigs in this world.}

Now, it seems that this is being explained as caused by a local coal plant. {bad link}
Monroe mystery powder likely from coal plant Associated Press


Putting aside the issue of newspapers turning the truth into a commodity, the coal plant explanation doesn't line up with what was written in the first article:

Law enforcement officials are trying to determine the identity of a substance that was dropped from a low-flying airplane in the Bolles Harbor area Monday morning.

There seem to be three possibilities here:

1) The coal plant explanation
2) Maybe this was a false flag story linked to "terrorism," the good old fall back plan of anthrax/ricin scares, and those who came up with this plan have backed off.
3) Maybe sometimes the chemplanes don't work properly
Last edited by socrates on Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:42 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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link down again?

Unread postby NatureisMad » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:14 am

in socrates post:

"And from this source we find out who Mr. Stewart got his information from:
Trail of Conspiracy- The Vancouver Courier by Robin Brunet."

Does this link give a screen with anything for anybody?
Born into...& trying to survive this science fiction world
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