All Aircraft Are Not Involved

"Schon Ihr erster Schrei als Baby galt der Luft, dem Licht und der Freiheit."
means like,
"yet her first cry as a baby was meant to the air, the light and the freedom."
babelfish seems to have phantasy.

im not quite firm with that troposphere/stratosphere thing. they said they would spread the stuff along the already existing flightpaths--so what does that mean? arnt they flying through both of that?

and yes, the vid proofs nothing, in context of it's name--same description as on youtube.

..
most german forums i've found went dead couple of years ago--typically the last post then is something like, you guys are wankers or esoterics--get a life!! and nobody dared to write again...
there is one 'kindof' active (dont remember where right now but can find it again). it's very kryptic and i dont have a clue what they are talking about most of the time. unfortunately thats the only active german forum i found.

con-trail wrote:
nothing-at-all-saying-crap.. well lets see:

>>...about a half degree celsius down. (maybe refering to the post 911 flight embargo for 2 days and the lift thereafter, see the documentary 'global dimming'. or maybe talking about a big volcano eruption) and this effect, some scientists want to reproduce. airplanes for example should bring sulfur into the upper atmosphere. the sulfur powder will be mixed into the kerosine and due the cumbustion in the engines, sulfur dioxide forms, like in a volcanic eruption. the sulfur dioxide particles diffuse the sunlight and reduce the radiation hitting the earth. the gas should be dispensed globally along the worldwide flightpaths, and slow down or even stop the global warming. but sulfur dioxide is poisonous. though, supporters say that in such a great height the lifespan of the gas would be too short to reach the earth's surface, there is no guarantee. shiftings in the atmospheare could lead to a nasty surprise...<<[/b]

Ok, the first part probably had to do with Mt. Pinatubo, where the volcanic eruption resulted in some cooling. The global dimming idea picked up steam when the planes were grounded the days after 9/11 resulting in some warming.

Come to think of it, this whole video seems like a total scam. Why is there only a minute of this? Why the title? Plus, one really needs to know the difference between troposphere and stratosphere. If there were any truth to the idea that the sulfur won't reach us, then such activity would have to be in the stratosphere, well above "worldwide flightpaths."

Do we even know who produced this film?
Well, at least it is being discussed in the chemtrails are kooky section.

I smell propaganda!


A basic search shows that the troposphere is about 11 miles and the stratosphere is from 11 miles to about 31 miles above the ground.
THE EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE

Two plans we have heard about are by Teller and Crutzen who wrote about geoengineering the stratosphere. Whomever put this "documentary" together appear to be paid disinformation tools. I don't recall either plan for "spraying" in the lowest part of the stratosphere. Just see the word stratosphere a lot, and how the higher they go up, the longer it will stay aloft. Will take back any statement if wrong.

you made your homework
the recent ZEIT Wissen link, one of those pseudo scientific mags, has an article about the SUNSCREEN. (Sonnenschutz für die Erde, page 66 ;-)
ideas include a mirrors in space, a dust-belt like around saturn and various methods to freeze, remove or store CO2 (as if that was the problem ;=)
ofcourse old friend sulfur dioxide is in there as well-- they say it leads back to an idea in the 70's and, yes, paul crutzen.
facts and figures: take some groundbased sulfur canons or the kerosine idea and spread this stuff into the stratosphere--5 million tons (half of the '91 Mt.Pinatubo amount) could balance out the raise in temperature caused by a doubling of the CO2 concentration. and the sunsets would look more spectacular!! risks: the sulfur d. would attack the ozonelayer, would definately come down as acid rain (about 2 years), and the reflected energy could heat up the stratosphere with unknown effects. costs: about 50 million dollar per year.
juhu - all these facts and numbers!! very convenient.
also, the effect would not be uniform on all places, so most practicable maybe over the pole caps.
yeah, they spent at least 300 words on the topic. you must know that ZEIT is one of THE newspapers here. the FOCUS (major one as well) predated this article recently with about two sentences of 'information'.

so long, and thanks for all the fish

the guy responsible for the video seems to be Joachim Bublath. he has his own forum on zdf.de
link
in >4000 topics there is one about the sunscreen. (search for 'schwefel' (sulfur) on this forum) but i couldnt follow what it is actually about. mere self-promoting knowledge dropping, it seems.
but after reading the ZEIT article, everyone with a raytracer and video software could have done a better job--

what you mean, propaganda??
just take a look at



it's the same vid, posted by a group called volksaufklaerer (~ people enlightener)
they look very sane to me. calling all the tv stations zionistic and jewish controlled. and simply advertising their very intelligent internet site with the chemtrail tag.
but seriously, don't go to that link unless you want to vote them down or make a well-funded comment about their mental health problems. they posted the vid a couple of times with different allegations and comments about ... ahh forget it - just ignore that link!
i leave it up to you, socrates, to say a the obligatory tin-foil statement in your mothers tongue ;)

i know this vid looks like a scam, but then again-- i have never ever watched a comprehensive and intelligent made program in tv. this thing meets all the standards of infotainment. "cause under any circumstances it is not allowed to distract the attention from the advertisement."

con-trail wrote:you made your homework

I know what you mean. Sometimes this comes easy, sometimes it feels like annoying school work. But even before you made this new post, I realised where they got the idea for the "worldwide aircraft." It is from the work of a person named Penner.

I've seen these ideas before. I have a feeling the video might have been an adaptation of the following. Just noticed the author writes about "Deep Shield" as if it is true. Bad sign. Kind of tainted with how Will Thomas promoted this "Deep Sky" hoax.This word cointelpro keeps popping into my head lately. Yet there is also tons of good stuff in this article. Not sure why the same, old bad stuff always seems to find its way in. Then the good stuff gets tainted. The following quote can originally be found in a report put out by the National Academy of sciences.



The Chemtrail Smoking Gun: Proof of global atmospheric geoengineering

Delivery Scenarios
"Aircraft Exhaust Penner et al. (1984) suggested that emissions of 1 percent of the fuel mass of the commercial aviation fleet as particulates, between 40,000- and 100,000-foot (12- to 30-km) altitude for a 10-year period, would change the planetary albedo sufficiently to neutralize the effects of an equivalent doubling of CO2. They proposed that retuning the engine combustion systems to burn rich during the high-altitude portion of commercial flights could be done with negligible efficiency loss....

...They then estimated that if 1 percent of the fuel of aircraft flying above 30,000 feet is emitted as soot, over a 10-year period the required mass of particulate material would be emitted. However, current commercial aircraft fleets seldom operate above 40,000 feet (12 km), and the lifetimes of particles at the operating altitudes will be much shorter than 10 years."

We are on the same page.
In many ways.

the guy responsible for the video seems to be Joachim Bublath.

Just looked, must thank him for another chemtrail subliminal.


It's hard to put into words, but this propaganda is yet more proof that there are chemtrails. A good folksy, American cliche would be it's a dog and pony show.

what you mean, propaganda??
just take a look at http://youtube.com/watch?v=zqKPiHMqicA
it's the same vid, posted by a group called volksaufklaerer (~ people enlightener)
they look very sane to me. calling all the tv stations zionistic and jewish controlled. and simply advertising their very intelligent internet site with the chemtrail tag.

We are on the same page. Good use of sarcasm. I can't believe the point of any of this is to get folks to buy into their hogwash. It seems to me like an overall effort to portray chemtrails as kooky. What else could this mean? Sure, some people are dumbass bigots. Yet, most people are good, at least deep down.

On another thread, myself and NatureisMad were going over chemtrails and Kucinich. You end up finding about disclosure projects{ufo's and aliens} and fake anti-nuclear weapons groups.


Thanks con-trail for being real.

I just did a simple, little search utilizing the AltaVista search engine. I just wanted to refreshen my understanding of the scientific defintions of clouds. (And thought that I would check out what one of the first displayed websites on a regular, old search engine was.)
So, check out this website:

Code: Select all

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/cld/cldtyp/home.rxml

(copy & paste the entire address for link to the page referred to)
-by the University of Illinois.?
Right on the main page, there is a link to the "High-level clouds" section.
Oh, the chemtrails, oh the trails have now shown up everywhere. To the point where they are mixed in with "Science" & "Fact". It's all become some heavily distorted stuff now, hasn't it?

High-level clouds form above 20,000 feet (6,000 meters) and since the temperatures are so cold at such high elevations, these clouds are primarily composed of ice crystals. High-level clouds are typically thin and white in appearance, but can appear in a magnificent array of colors when the sun is low on the horizon.

Oh really? Big, X's lingering on the horizon is just "high level clouds"......really?


technical note: How do I insert a picture into a post? Socrates, or may41970, help me out or paste that first picture here if you could. People should see this. This is the type of crap that is now explained & believed to be scientific cloud classifications. Sheesh.

I'm as dumb on computers as you. Years of making posts, but I've never posted a picture. It would be nice to learn how.

You know what I'd love to see? Some pictures of those "magnificent array of colors" clouds from before 1997. Or even a single photo of tic-tac-toe trails covering the sky from before 1997. Just one.

Anyways, here's another interesting photo I found at your link. As of today, it's a photo that looks like a contrail that got cut up with a pair of scissors. Not sure why the direct link below doesn't work right. You'll need to copy and paste it into your main address bar if you want to see it.

Code: Select all

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/wwhlpr/contrail.rxml?hret=/guides/mtr/cld/cldtyp/home.rxml

may41970

If you guys notice, the reason the link is coming out funny here is because of the parentheses surrounding the "GH" in the link. Not sure if that was deliberate to make it more difficult for linking purposes, but that is why the link looks strange and cannot be fixed.

For my images, I use http://mynetimages.com
You can directly link to people's images, but then you'll never know if the photos will be taken down or whatever.

To link directly to any image, you right click to "view image" which gives you the url address.

Then all you do is type the following.
n.b. I am replacing the brackets with {}.

{img}url address to image{/img}

Or you can open an image account and then you don't have to worry about anything. And always just give props to whatever images, excerpts, etc. that you post.

When I just tried to upload the images to my account, this is what it said:

File selected does not belong to one of the allowed formats.

The following image formats are allowed: jpg jpeg png gif

Here is the first photo that goes with N.I.M.'s link.


Please note, you can also hit the quote button for this post and see how the forum codes were used.

If you hit on the link, you get this second image with the following text.

Cirrus Clouds
thin and wispy

The most common form of high-level clouds are thin and often wispy cirrus clouds. Typically found at heights greater than 20,000 feet (6,000 meters), cirrus clouds are composed of ice crystals that originate from the freezing of supercooled water droplets. Cirrus generally occur in fair weather and point in the direction of air movement at their elevation.

This is exactly the same point con-trail was making earlier in this thread, about how chemtrails are being astroturfed as being contrails, as being just mostly water vapour.

Notice how they put high level clouds at 20,000 feet or greater. That is where many chemtrails are being estimated as to location. We are talking about the troposphere.

Wow, good find may41970. Good to see you making some chemtrail posts here and there. I do realise it is a tough subject to discuss.

Contrails
condensation trails

A contrail, also known as a condensation trail, is a cirrus-like trail of condensed water vapor often resembling the tail of a kite. Contrails are produced at high altitudes where extremely cold temperatures freeze water droplets in a matter of seconds before they can evaporate.

Contrails form through the injection of water vapor into the atmosphere by exhaust fumes from a jet engine. If the surrounding air is cold enough, a state of saturation is attained and ice crystals develop, producing a contrail.

We got chemtrailed yesterday afternoon.
We got slammed today.

Have seen one of those planes that look like the Hiaper aircraft but with the solid white colour instead of the blue in the other one. Seems like we need a lot of cash to be able to really identify the aircraft. And "debunkers" say we should grab some of the chemplumes and test them. It seems difficult enough to even be able to identify the aircraft.

Not sure if this means anything, but a while back I saved an image from chemtroll central. Didn't think much of it at the time, but I saw the same aircraft today, flying below the artificial sky muck.

And yes, I saw the same kind of mucky "exhaust" coming out the back.

here's the link to it -"Cirrus unicus"
(A service of the Utah Education Network)

{on edit: that link is not working. Here is another one that might help. Things can come and go on the internet. It's best to screenshot and/or copy and paste anything good, to document important excerpts in case they get scrubbed or moved.}

by socrates,

Or you can open an image account and then you don't have to worry about anything. And always just give props to whatever images, excerpts, etc. that you post.

O.k.
Socrates: So, what kind of props need to be given? You mean there are actually like copyright infringement things on the Internet? What if pictures found have no verifiable origination/proprietor?

Thanks again in advance.
N.I.M.

Yay! Pictures in action now.. Thank you for the technical help, socrates.

by socrates,

Not sure if this means anything, but a while back I saved an image from chemtroll central. Didn't think much of it at the time, but I saw the same aircraft today, flying below the artificial sky muck.

And yes, I saw the same kind of mucky "exhaust" coming out the back.

Is this the picture you had saved from ChemtrollCentral? Google-Earth?
Wow, that's quite a shot. Still, like has been stated, it is hard enough to just identify these aircraft. Let alone someone, somehow, to get behind their exhaust & take a sample of it.

NatureisMad wrote:So, what kind of props need to be given? You mean there are actually like copyright infringement things on the Internet? What if pictures found have no verifiable origination/proprietor?

I think because the internet has the reputation of being a shady source, that it is important to stay true to academic ideals. One footnotes under certain circumstances.

*** when citing primary, secondary sources
*** if one has paraphrased someone else's ideas, there is also the need to give credit where it is due.

The only time we don't need to footnote is when the info is common knowledge. E.G., no one needs to footnote that FDR served four terms as President.


It's like the photo I put up as the logo. That is someone else's, they deserve the credit. If they want me to take that down, I will. My idea with that is perhaps we could rotate a new chemtrail image every once in a while. So if anyone wants to help select those, just let me know.

If you look at the thread in this section on Roy Oswald and his chemtrails are kooky astroturfing, one can see that he posted images without giving the proper credit. I, too, posted the images, but when I saw that the person didn't want them displayed, I took them down.

Kooky posters such as "Kola" and "Halva/Wayne Hall" are always putting things up with no link. That is slimy, imho.


The kooky chemmies will post anything and everything. The few real "chemmies" like us do care what newbies and those on the fence think. And people do want to know where the quotes, articles, images, etc. are coming from. There is that cliche "consider the source."

Yay! Pictures in action now.

Sometimes I am lazy and just link directly to the image. I give credit to the source hopeful that if they see their pictures here, maybe they will let them remain since I am directing traffic to their places. Another thing, if there is an image you definitely want to make sure remains, then you're gonna want to save it to your comp and upload it at a hosting place.

Is this the picture you had saved from ChemtrollCentral? Google-Earth?
Wow, that's quite a shot. Still, like has been stated, it is hard enough to just identify these aircraft. Let alone someone, somehow, to get behind their exhaust & take a sample of it.

Yes, from CTC. Maybe I should have figured out exactly where it came from. It looks like a military plane.

If it's way expensive just to get the video equipment to get chemjet close-ups, one can only imagine how expensive it would be to capture materials from an actual chemplume.



One thing I'd like to figure out is the screen save. Maybe it's possible to pause chemtrail videos at exact spots and copy the image. If so, maybe we can prove with the better ones where exactly the "contrail" comes from and when it starts to form. If the crap is coming directly out of the plane, imho, that is cut and dried proof of atmospheric shenanigans. I say this because I am under the impression that contrails don't form directly from the plane, that they form when interacting with extremely cold and humid air.