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Re: The letter

Unread postby socrates » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:14 pm

[quote="NatureisMad"]

Oh boy.....another very good point. I did a little search on this Carol Rosin=UFO's & Extraterrestrials. Oh yeah, as you say socrates, anybody "sitting on the fence" may be immediately turned off. Because everything everywhere has to tie this spraying into other crazy-*** nonsense topics. Man, can't anybody take a straightforward approach to this worldwide spraying without adding in all of the tinfoil crap?! How much is intentional? Makes a concerned, rational citizen want to pull out their hair w/ frustration sometimes.


At Chemtrail Central, myself and may41970 stumbled across discrepancies with their archives. There was an Innocent Bystander who was asking Chem11 and Deborah/Foot Soldier about that Kucinich bill. Did they even read it? No where did they seem to want to verify the story. Same with that crazy "Deep Sky" story.

There's a bunch on this on another thread, where epoxynous and his stupid video was dissected.

Generation X is where we fought to end nuclear weapons testing.
apartheid, Iran/contra, etc.. But this Rosin was somehow in the lead of some bs anti-nuclear group. That is what Cointelpro was all about. Infiltrating peace groups, human rights, green, anti-war. It's kinda ******** the wrap the peaceniks take. Yeah, peace is awful. We're just a bunch of hippies. Screw them and their illegal war, torture, mayhem.




I completely agree. I also wonder why the "Extra Terrestrial weapons" was in that bill. Wow, that's really far out sounding. That IS far out there. If we could only ask Mr. Kucinich IN PERSON, you know?


It came out that this guy Kos of DailyKos is CIA.
The Progressive Independent has proven that the Democratic Underground is a shill gatekeeper for the DLC. One can see all that dirt on Rivero.

This whole internet has been a scam, like you said in another post. Not a total scam. We do have the power of real numbers. Grassroots. Maybe not all about web hits, afterall.

Cointelpro. like with the Black Panthers.
Carol Rosin, bet that's as seedy as it gets.
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Appleman Chart, data, etc.

Unread postby NatureisMad » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:02 am

So...if someone has the current temp and RH and can make a guesstimate as to the altitude of a particular aircraft, and all of those factors add up to NO contrails, then it could be inferred that what's being discharged from the plane is something else entirely. Does this make any sense? If there's a flaw in my reasoning, please let me know.


Yeah, that is basically the concept behind the scientific, logical formation of a regular contrail. And it is exactly how to rule out what may seem like a regular contrail...but obviously is not.

I looked at that Appleman Chart. It looks pretty solid. Again, straightforward, scientific means dealing with the scientific causes of a "contrail".

And I see there is also a link to that Upper Atmosphere Sounding Data within the link. Very simple, too. One can just go to that website, enter in your location, & it will give you the readouts for your area. Then one can determine if atmospheric conditions were just right for producing what is now called "persistent contrails".

I had heard of this Appleman Chart before, at some chemtrail website probably. Thanks for posting it. Just another brick in the wall of evidence proving the reality of this spraying.
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Including Kucinich bill.?.

Unread postby NatureisMad » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:15 am

You know, I've always wondered about that Space Preservation Act bill thing. To this day, I am kind of puzzled why it was even written, considering the content in it & the method in which it was written. Why would he be so involved in it? Why did he/does he support this Carol Rosin so? Even though he is a damn politician (forgive my obvious distrust in them), there seemed to be at least an element of truth to when Kucinich spoke.

I still think it is pretty significant that a Member of our Congress would mention this kind of thing (chemtrails/exotic weapons/etc.) so publicly. In a form letter, it would still bring attention to a person reading about this spraying for their first time. Would it not? Would it be more helpful than to not mention it, for trepidation of the kooky association with UFO's/Extraterrestrials/etc.? Over the last 10 years now, there have been some very odd associations with some of our politicians concerning atmospheric mentionings & such.

Hmmm...
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Unread postby Don Smith » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:49 am

You might remember that Kucinich, for all his "progressive" idealogy, is a party guy. When Bushco railroaded two national elections, Kucinich shut his mouth and followed the party line.
His role is to offer hope that the "government" has someone up there valiantly trying to enforce the "law".
By now, any reasonable person must recognise that the law is whatever the elites want it to be.
To appeal to facts, proof, or any other standard that a sane person might use in discourse, is a waste of time to those in power. They operate in a totally illogical world of acquisitiveness, end-of-the-world-hurray-for-Jesus, you are poor because you are not a responsible person, God is my buddy thinking.
Hitler said again and again that politics are not about facts, politics is an appeal, to emotion.
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Re: Appleman Chart, data, etc.

Unread postby socrates » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:55 pm

NatureisMad wrote: Yeah, that is basically the concept behind the scientific, logical formation of a regular contrail. And it is exactly how to rule out what may seem like a regular contrail...but obviously is not.

I looked at that Appleman Chart. It looks pretty solid. Again, straightforward, scientific means dealing with the scientific causes of a "contrail".
And I see there is also a link to that Upper Atmosphere Sounding Data within the link. Very simple, too. One can just go to that website, enter in your location, & it will give you the readouts for your area. Then one can determine if atmospheric conditions were just right for producing what is now called "persistent contrails".


Ok, myself and M.A. Basher took photos yesterday. It wasn't a full-out operation like we have seen on the better made you-tube videos, but it was clearly suspicious. So a few minutes ago, I decided to check out that link.


U. of Wyoming- Dept. of Atmospheric Science

The problems I see are two-fold in using this approach. Maybe I just haven't fully figured out how to maximize the website. But it seems like all the readings are going to come from one part of the state. Correct me if I'm wrong, but here the readings are done in Chatham, Massachusetts. That's Cape Cod, an hour or more away from the greater Boston area.

Plus, it appears that the readings are done twice a day, and since it is being done in only the one area, that allows debunkers a lot of wiggle room. The chemtrailers have their own aircraft which can take readings anywhere they want to. Our info seems to be tremendously more limited.

Here is a link which converts meters into feet. For those not interested, the people providing this service can help you with ur smelly feet. :lol:
Or as they explain:

To convert from meters to feet, multiply the number of meters by 3.28084.


Here are the Chatham, MA. readings for yesterday.

Here are a few excerpts. Again, sorry if I am new to this and could do a better job or am missing something. This just seems like a very limited way to prove chemtrails. Sure it helps, it just seems to leave the wiggle room.
:?


Chatham Observations at 00Z 16 Aug 2007

Meters Temp. {celsius} Relative Humidity
1860 12.4 91%
2743 7.9 58%
7620 -24.5 18%
10668 -42.6 8%
13716 -56.4 9%

Chatham Observations at 12Z 16 Aug 2007

Meters Temp. {celsius} Relative Humidity
2438 10.2 46%
4877 -5.2 70%
5820 -11.5 90%
6096 -13.3 79%
7315 -21.5 29%
10058 -38.2 9%
12497 -53.2 13%


Chatham Observations at 00Z 17 Aug 2007

Meters Temp. {celsius} Relative Humidity
3511 3.8 89%
4877 -3.7 90%
5052 -2.9 14%
6706 -13.1 9%
10058 -37.6 39%
12038 -53.7 58%
13380 -61.5 55%
15240 -62.4 27%




Maybe this is why we have been given this idea to look at altitude, temperature, and relative humidity. It seems this is because the tools we can use are very limited and allow the extensive wiggle room.

One thing I find striking is that the humidity can have huge swings.
It also seems from these readings that the higher the altitude, the less humid it is. It also seems that when the humidity conditions do exist, it is just not cold enough for persistent contrails. Perhaps the chemtrailers simply do their dirty work where it is most humid. So maybe this is why the trails appear to be plopped down from 20,000 to 35,000 feet. And that brings up another question. How to calculate the altitude of the aircraft we are witnessing.

We really could use some congressional investigations into this. Perhaps the fact that the Dr. Evil weather bills have been stalling is a sign that there are folks in Congress who do not like the program{s}.

Maybe I am missing something here, but this approach seems limited.
However, thanks for pursuing this.


___________________________________________________


As regards to Kucinich, perhaps he is just "playing the game." Perhaps he believes one needs to work within the sytem to change it.


Dr. Bob Fitrakis is the wild card.
He doesn't seem to have the baggage of a Will Thomas.

Someone in Ohio, or perhaps one of us can track down the archives of the Columbus newspaper he wrote for, or in fact, scour all good sources for details on wtf Kucinich knows and how he really feels about chemtrails.

It looks clear-cut that the Space Preservation Bill written by Rosin and others was a cointelpro production and was put together in accordance with the chemtrails are kooky scam.
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The letter

Unread postby NatureisMad » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:41 pm

posted by socrates
Maybe this is why we have been given this idea to look at altitude, temperature, and relative humidity. It seems this is because the tools we can use are very limited and allow the extensive wiggle room.

One thing I find striking is that the humidity can have huge swings.
It also seems from these readings that the higher the altitude, the less humid it is. It also seems that when the humidity conditions do exist, it is just not cold enough for persistent contrails. Perhaps the chemtrailers simply do their dirty work where it is most humid. So maybe this is why the trails appear to be plopped down from 20,000 to 35,000 feet. And that brings up another question. How to calculate the altitude of the aircraft we are witnessing.



Well, this is a pretty good point, I guess. Yes, I suppose there is "wiggle room" involving these readings. But is this not one, of the very many, way to count out what we see as being regular "persisting contrails"? What about at a quiet Montana ranch on a blue sky morning, & proceeding to spend 1/2 the day watching 30 or more (how many were the same jets just coming back around again?) jets leave trails that soon turned the sky into a milky, whiteish-grey haze as far as the eye can see? This is certainly not normal, commercial air traffic. Anyone with a shred of common sense knows this. This is where a site like flightaware, or some similar flight tracking program, would prove it beyond a doubt. We're talking about extreme, rural areas with the nearest airport 200+ miles away. And on & on & on......

socrates, if I didn't know you are for real, I would say you sound borderline paranoid. But I do know you are real. And I wouldn't claim to be a better researcher in regards to checking people/websites/etc. validity. You have proven to have checked on & called the fakes for what they are.

This is all really too bad that this spraying is wrapped up along with so much other kooky crap. It really has tainted the whole credibility of it all, hasn't it? But, we shall keep trying.

Don Smith, your writings border on a depressive level. However, I read your stuff with interest, because some of it does ring true to a degree. It sucks we are mired in such a bureaucracy. The Bureaucratic Blender, as an old friend of mine calls it. Ha!
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Re: The letter

Unread postby socrates » Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:06 pm

[quote="NatureisMad"]

Well, this is a pretty good point, I guess. Yes, I suppose there is "wiggle room" involving these readings. But is this not one, of the very many, way to count out what we see as being regular "persisting contrails"?


Wait a sec, maybe I was wrong.
It looks like the chemtrails witnessed by m.a. basher and myself
were scientifically impossible. The data may be limited somewhat,
but come to think of it, they are busted through this method.



What about at a quiet Montana ranch on a blue sky morning, & proceeding to spend 1/2 the day watching 30 or more (how many were the same jets just coming back around again?) jets leave trails that soon turned the sky into a milky, whiteish-grey haze as far as the eye can see? This is certainly not normal, commercial air traffic...


Desertrose is from Arizona.
They don't have the humidity there for much contrails,
yet they seem to get the chemtrails too often. Busted again through the basic science.


socrates, if I didn't know you are for real, I would say you sound borderline paranoid. But I do know you are real. And I wouldn't claim to be a better researcher in regards to checking people/websites/etc. validity. You have proven to have checked on & called the fakes for what they are.

This is all really too bad that this spraying is wrapped up along with so much other kooky crap. It really has tainted the whole credibility of it all, hasn't it? But, we shall keep trying.


Yeah, I agree. A shame.

Anyone going fake this, fake that so much, you'd have to wonder. But I went one by one through the main characters. Lou Aubuchont was the last "real" one left at the end. Now with all this **** uncovered on him, yikes.

It's the noise to signal ratio. It's having to search for needles in haystacks.


But seriously, me, you, may41970, crystal rose, we all started at CTC at the same time. We all knew within a month that there was that stench.

You tried.
You went to Megasprayer, Gastro, etc..
One by one, their agendas emerged.

It was very telling, what you went through at Megasprayer.
That was crucial.
That was when there was no more wiggle room for those three.
Chem11, Foot Soldier/Deborah, and Big Bunny are debunkers in chemmie clothes.


Don Smith, your writings border on a depressive level. However, I read your stuff with interest, because some of it does ring true to a degree. It sucks we are mired in such a bureaucracy. The Bureaucratic Blender, as an old friend of mine calls it. Ha!


We all have our moments.
I think in better times, a guy like Don Smith could have been a great leader. I often wish I was born ten, twenty years earlier, where being a lefty peacenik was more the norm. It's tough not to get a bit bitter when one remembers more open, groovier times.




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Unread postby socrates » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:25 pm

Today the forecast called for a sunny day. But what we have out there right now is a white-out created by the mad scientists. The relative humidity in this area is too low for this kind of nonsense. I am still waiting to see proof that the average commercial airliner is producing fake overcasts, that chemtrails are contrails.

Chatham, MA. Atmospheric Readings

For those who want to check out readings for their area, here is the link. You click on the weather station in your area.

weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html

The day did start out sunny. But one could see haze near the sun. Now the fake, white haze is everywhere.

It stinks that it is so tough to see what is going on in that specific area. We're simply not supposed to look directly at the sun. That is another reason why the ptb's are able to get away with the dispersals. Much of the activity occurs in that direction. Who wants to go blind in order to prove to themselves that this is the truth?

I also saw a jet which was low enough to get a good look at. I could see the chemjunk coming directly out of the tails. They were clearly not normal contrails forming from exhaust coming out of the engines. I am 100% sure that chemtrails are deliberate activity.
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