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Hey Socrates

manufactured grassroots, disinfo, and insidious marketing

Unread postby socrates2 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:57 pm

Hi Last_Name_Left,

I think it's cool people can work things out, forgive each other and whatnot. I appreciate that you won't be going after the chemtrail issue. You may of course, and my skin is a lot thicker at this point than before, but again, there are a gazillion predictable debunker versus believer threads on the internet. Rarely does one see any in-depth analysis. I'll just add that the idea of a chemtrail program does not equate with the idea that pigs can fly. This is the only forum that has attempted to present a realistic perspective on them.

I was reading through your links. I think that is good work you have been doing connecting dots. You have also eloquently stated what right woos left is all about. On the surface is one thing with these people. Beneath it is something entirely different.

There's something very fishy about Tinoire at the Progressive Independent. She actually took a picture with Wolfowitz. Now would you take a picture of yourself with John Major? Would I take one with Karl Rove? I don't think so.

Screenshots are a good idea. I am running out of free time to continue so much with this amateur sleuthing, but I am happy I was able to accumulate a lot of proof.

The ptb's know this can be information overload even for people like us who are curious. They want us to feel frustrated. They want us to feel that yes, we figured it out, but that no one is listening or cares.

People like us get called debunkers. You started out interested in figuring out 9/11. Then you noticed all the disinformation circulating. You saw how certain names like Rivero, Jones and other lesser known names are all part of the same insular "alternative media."

Why don't the "truthers" or "chemmies" clean up the mess? What is so wrong about people debunking themselves. That's called the scientific method. That's called seeking out the truth no matter what it is. Anyone who is averse to looking into our claims about Rivero is suspicious, imho. I do not believe there are really so many "conspiracy nuts." They'll be a few good examples in this post of fake nutters.

There's this guy Don Harkins who totally manipulated work done by a member here, CPellatt. Her paper wasn't exactly on chemtrails, but she was just showing through research and good sources that governments have not been afraid to do some heinous testing on its people and the environment.

The guy twisted it into the predictable evil NWO depopulation/mind control spin. It turns out the guy is connected to the Spotlight and thus the Barnes network.

They get people with the facade. They'll mention real things like cointelpro. They'll make it seem they are against the war, etc.. They'll make lefties like us pay homage to their at first sensible appearing Libertarian views.

But then a week or month or whenever later, one realises that these are fakes with hidden agendas.

No way in hell should Tinoire and Rivero be at all affiliated. That just doesn't add up.

I know all about getting unfairly banned. Tinoire is the gatekeeper for those who figure out the Democratic Underground is being played. This is what happened to me. A poster used the phrase jewboy. I called him out for it. Then before I knew it I was banned. There is another site called Prosemite Undercover. They saw what happened and watched my back on it. Unfortunately, they seem to be apologists for the Israeli government, so that was a dead end too.

It was just unfortunate that we were not seeing eye to eye with chemtrails, because we certainly were seeing the same bullshit as regards to Rivero. You are free to post here or sign up again. I kind of feel funny about you using the name guest, so I am going to change that. {long story}

We're talking information overload and enigmas, aren't we? We're also talking about gatekeepers who control what gets posted on major forums. We're talking about personality clashes {ourselves previously} and about deliberate provocation and disinfo placement all over the internet.

"Aubuchont" is the centerpiece of the most famous book on chemtrails, one written by Will Thomas. It turns out he claims to be able to wipe out small clouds with his own mind. He has posted about the Disclosure Project as if it is a legit group.

His most famous phrases have been neo-con-artist and a-what. He has been ranting and frothing about the evil neocons. Yeah, they suck, but what's up with all the ranting and frothings on the net? Can't people just do their best to make points based on logic, good sources, screenshots, and sincerity?

Somehow I was able to track down two of Aubuchont's sock puppets. Sure, there are plenty of times we can think someone is a specific sock puppet, but how often do we find actual proof? I did.

He was posting as AnnAngryBitch. He has admitted to being that person. On one of the AnnAngryBitch posts this seemingly progressive but gruff ex-naval intelligence courier was making homophobic comments. That's something I've never read once from "Lou." That is when I started feeling confident that he is an intel writer, dropping divisive rants all over the net.

On one Atrios thread, both "Lou" and "AnnAngryBitch" showed up. You can see them in the Lou Aubuchont Reeks Like Disinfo thread in this forum.

You know how Rivero talks up cointelpro? He does that, so newbies will go cool, he must be legit if he recognizes historical fakery like that. Aubuchont likes to refer to me as a cartoon character. He claims I am may41970 and all these other people. I think he called me a cartoon character, so it would be tough for me to point out that he is the real mickey mouse time.

I'm trying to express what you and many others do understand, that there is this network of fakes filling up the internet with plenty of drama and slogans but no real juice. This guy, and you've seen them too with the Ron Paul types, they don't seem organic. They seem for lack of a better word, scripted.

While everyone's focus is on Bush, Cheney, and Gonzales as the prime reason for all the troubles, Obama has gone fascist and Rove still runs around free. You must know why people hate politics. We see this fat pig criminal, Karl Rove, getting away with his crime of instigating an innocent governor going to jail. We know he was involved with the White House Iraq Group.

What's my point? People like Lou and Alex Jones appear to be actors. Mike Rivero, Tinoire, Skinner at Democratic Underground, DailyCIAKos, these are gatekeepers. There is something going on with the blogosphere. It is getting gamed. It's tough to put into words.

It is also a fact that Lou posted as Mike at BradBlog. Brad confirmed it to me in an email. Strangely enough, he was making fun of chemtrail believers. Then I think he made a last couple posts with the usal gruffy type of crap one sees at all these public places.



Ok, check this out. Here's stuff that you'll probably find more interesting.

I was at The Democratic Underground for 100 posts before being banned for no good reason. I didn't curse. I didn't break any rules. The only explanation I can think of is that I stood up to people working that board. This implies that at least some of the moderators at DU are corrupt. You can't apply rules unevenly. That is precisely what is wrong with The DU.

Here is a DU thread in which I suspect the two people are controlled opposition. It's a long one. I don't expect folks to read through it all. But I'm using it as a reference point.

There is a 22 year old Israeli arms merchant who got busted. It's been in the news and is a legit story. The person who is copying and pasting a lot on it is SeemsLikeADream. She is one of the more rational thinking "conspiracy theorists." But that's the problem. Why is everyone being boxed into stereotypes?

She used the term "blood-sucking." That sounds like a coded message for "The Jews." I'll get more to that later, when I explain more in detail something mentioned above in another post.

Everything's being boxed into believer versus debunker. Everything becomes inane drama.

The debunkers get away with any kind of bad behaviour they want expressed towards other people and rarely get banned. People like myself get banned for putting them on ignore.

There is a waft of manufactured dialogue on the internet.

Certain people can break rules left and right and not get banned. Others like us as we saw with Tinoire get banned from places for no good reason, just because we ask perhaps unsettling but relevant questions.

Here's an example. There are more, but this should do.



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Is blood-sucking a code phrase for "Jew?"

I read on one of the threads you provided how that is how Alex Jones operates. He won't come out and be anti-semitic, but he will crow about evil NWO bankers and whatnot.

We need less drama and more facts in understandable forms.

People also need to be less shallow and stop falling for limited hangouts. They need to do the homework. We both have provided information on Rivero. We have made the case that a sophisticated campaign exists on the internet. It is about divide and conquer and diversions. {Chemtrails to the side please. They are real. But this other stuff is too important for the trails to quash our freedom of association, imho.}


Here's the DBS plagiarism story which ties in with Rivero's What Really Happened Forum.

Neo-Nazi Cointelpro On This Board

I was in rare form for cursing. Everyone please forgive me for that. DBS allows it. It's tough to post at a place like that without ending up swearing one's head off. I stopped posting there. It is a dump. It might have had relevance back when Huffington owned it. That was years ago, and well before I got into posting on forums.


Here is the post Ender made at Rivero's WRH forum. The link to the actual plagiarism can be found in the DBS link.


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Here, the fake neo-nazi astroturfer admits that he stole the material from "Ender." My response follows.




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He then admitted to having typed the whole thing out. Man, I wish I could win the lottery and go full time on the internet exposing this racket. But there is just so much time in the day. There is also the endless supply of bullshit to expose. Then we see how their plan Z is to have us running around after stupid usernames with no credibility.


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We done good by going after Rivero. People need to understand how much of the internet is being gamed.

One time you called this place all aircraft have wings. That was kind of funny. It's tough to stay mad at a bloke when they can come up with good ones like that.

Sometimes I have worried that good stuff gets buried. Yet, I do truly think that nobodies like us have succeeded to a certain degree. Otherwise, we wouldn't be attacked so much for just speaking our minds.

Despite all the mistakes I've made along the way, I am at peace with knowing that a lot of my research has been effective and much proof has been documented. It may seem we are up against the tide. But then again, think of how much less people would know about Rivero, Barnes, Tinoire, Democratic Underground {whose registering agents are rightwingers} et al, if we hadn't had the gumption to speak out.


p.s. I thought I was done with this post, but here's a thread that perhaps crystallizes everything. This creep who plagiarized Ender showed up on a thread called BONEHEADS (neo-nazis) caught on tape TORTURING BUNNY RABBIT. He showed up with nothing of use to say on the main post but rather switched gears and printed a long list of alleged Rabbi sexual predators.

the TRUTH wrote:YES I'm white, NO I'm not a neo-nazi. Are you a Rabbi?

Long list of Jewish Child Molestor Rabbis gets no media coverage and Jewish homosexual pedophiles are undisturbed.
Filed under:

More evidence that these people who claim to be Jews are God's enemies and not His chosen people.

King of kings' Bible - Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are NOT, but [are] (Idumeans) the synagogue of Satan....




In the plagiarised post, he changed the outright anti-semitism into the coded language you speak of. But in this thread, he let it all out and pretty much admitted to being some kind of proxy for Willis Carto Inc.. That's Ltd. to you. :)
socrates2
 

Michael Collins Piper

Unread postby socrates2 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:39 pm

I found this linking the Piper to Carto and also surprisingly to Kennedy Assassination writer Mark Lane.

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Here are a few excerpts. I think this "book" shows that right woos left, conspiracy chatter memes, and their connection to holocaust denial and anti-semitism have been fomenting well before the internet took off in the 90's. Carto is an evil f#@&.



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Here is Willis Carto. Notice how he leaves a space before the punctuation. That is the same thing "Louis Aubuchont" tends to do. It is also what a neo-nazi troll named TOTO from DBS {Reddot at Rivero's What Really Happened forum} does. I don't think this is a coincidence. I now think those who put a space before punctuation could be Carto disinfo types. That might sound like a stretch, but I don't think it is. Maybe it is a coincidence. Nonetheless, it is clear as day that the internet has been saturated with this "evil Jews" bullshit. It has been an ocean of strawmen for a number of topics. And Rivero has been one of the main dispensers of this insidious bullshit. His good cop facade has been exposed by people like Last Name Left who have been able to thoroughly connect Rivero to the anti-semitism.

Rivero's been around for about fifteen years. A lot of money and insidious punks must be behind that fake. Maybe that's why his forum was deleted. The dark side knows when to retreat and delete when necessary. But don't worry. There's too much to be deleted for Rivero to ever recover any credibility he might have once had.


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socrates2
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:34 pm

The_Last_Name_Left wrote:Have you seen the WRH wiki? I posted some stuff there, and it kept being deleted. I'd go back, and edit it again, and put it up again. Then they'd delete it again. The funny thing was, they kept deleting rivero quotes! That's odd, isn't it? Rivero, or one of his minions was censoring the page of rivero quotes. I can understand them deleting my additions about rivero being a fascist - but his own quotes? Why aren't they happy to have rivero quotes there? I also found a few stories he's deleted from his archive - one where he linked to neo-nazis protesting zundel's imprisonment......



I tried to find it with no luck. Here is some page about possible cleanup, but when you click on what really happened, the message is the page doesn't exist.

Wikipedia is definitely being gamed. There's a good website somewhere, forget the link, but people can check out who was behind the edits. Some interesting institutions were found to be involved.

Hey, is this the page you mean? It looks like there have been a lot of interesting shenanigans going on. Any insights will be appreciated. Thanks again. Have a nice weekend.
socrates2
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:22 pm

Ok, I had a brain cramp. Of course you meant that deletion debate. It makes perfect sense why they deleted your comments. I bet you were bringing up points that actually had bearing on the situation, such as that Michael Rivero is a confirmed racist and fascist. I bet you mentioned things like the Special Forces Underground, etc..

I read through as many of the comments as I could bear. Some were actually blatant right woos left commentary. Some were alluding that those who wanted the deletion were rightwing trolls. Michael Rivero is the ultimate rightwing troll! Most of those comments seemed scripted. Even the ones which were for deleting Rivero seemed to be arguing that WRH is a blog, that every blog and website shouldn't be included in Wikipedia.

I think we are looking at controlled opposition. I am curious who had the power to delete your comments. I thought Wikipedia was open to everyone. I guess I was wrong.

Personally, I've never had much respect for Wikipedia. I am amazed at how often the place is linked to. It's obviously not reliable. Now with the story about them censoring you, that suspicion has been confirmed in my mind. I've read a bunch of your posts. You don't curse. You try to be consistent and fair. You listen to others and expect the same respect. I do think troll spam should be deleted, if there is nothing of value to it. Some people think nothing should ever be deleted. But if everything is allowed to be posted at a place, that is also an attack on the freedom of speech and association of the sincere people.

Censorship is wrong, but selective censorship based on hidden agendas is worse. That seems to be what really happened with your posts at the Wiki.
socrates2
 

Unread postby The_Last_Name_Left » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:09 am

hi

This is the site i was on about. It uses wiki tech, I think, but isn't part of wikipedia. I think that's how it goes, anyway.

whatreallyhappened.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page


It says "the page about WRH anyone can edit"

What it doesn't say is that anything less than praise will be deleted! lol

But they deleted my edits which were adding Rivero's own quotes! Amazing.

--------

I've just spent a day being censored at a few blogs, related to Rivero, holocaust denial, anti-semitism etc.

I discovered something quite amazing, which I thought you'd be very interested in.

Have you ever considered that different people (or different IP addresses at least) receive different content from the same website? It seems such an obvious alternative to censorship - but I'd never thought of it until I found it in operation during efforts at censoring me at desertpeace blog.

They had a puff-piece eulogising Rivero and WRH - and I tried to get over some of the less savoury stuff about Rivero - that he and his fascist friends are no friends of palestinian cause, they are just cynically exploiting it as part of wider anti-semitic campaign.

Well, I had about 30 comments deleted - at its height comments were being deleted in 1 minute and 10 seconds! Real-time censorship.

Only on one page did they switch off the comments section - and then they introduced a wordpress login before comments were accepted.

So I logged in using wordpress, and carried on reposting what I wanted to say. I was surprised to find my comments suddenly weren't being deleted. So I checked the pages using a proxy - and the pages were different! I had the two sets of pages open - one in broswer, one via a proxy - and they were different.

Only my unproxied browser was getting my comments. The proxy version was identical, except without my comments.

Wow! I'd love to see the Troofers response if they caught CNN or BBC doing that! That kinda blew my mind a bit, I'd really never thought of it. But isn't it clever? No need to ban me - no need to close comments - just direct a page only to the poster themselves which has the comments, and leave the 'public' version unblemished.

The blog was

desertpeace.wordpress.com

My comments should be all over the place - but doubtless it will appear as if I've never been there - even though in my browser my latest comments do appear........

of course Rivero links to that blog, and links to the blogger that wrote the gushing article about WRH in the first place - smokingmirrors blog. And no surprise to find smokingmirrors blog featuring holocaust denial too. I knew you'd be surprised. ;)

And this is all going on at a blog claiming to be against racism........praising Rivero for his commitment to "truth".......sheesh, despicable innit?

-------------

And do you know BEAJ? Bacon Eating Atheist Jew........:)

He's got a wicked sense of humour and ruthlessly goes after these racist anti-semitic morons that populate 911 troof.........

He posted this video, which I think is absolutely brilliant.



He has a couple of blogs, they're very good! He's very funny and sharp as hell imo. He wipes the floor with the morons. Have a look - I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com
The_Last_Name_Left
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:19 pm

It says they are Rivero's creation. It's his home field advantage. I'm sure the Rivero quotes were too revealing. Feel free to post them here with the links.


These chumps are making it real easy to connect dots. You know how Saddam Hussein was secular and wouldn't have had anything to do with mujahadeen types? What is up with Tinoire from the Progressive Independent being so tight with Michael Rivero? That's like if a lefty started campaigning for Ron Paul. It wouldn't add up.

That blog you linked to is closely affiliated with Tinoire's place.

Check her out taking a picture with the neocon Wolfowitz. Does that make sense? Some poet lady years ago refused to perform for GW Bush. She said there are certain people she wouldn't break bread with.

I'm not sure what is up with this next place linked to. It is in some kind of flame war with Tinoire's website. They both are supposed to be disenchanted posters from Democratic Underground. It's the ADL versus the Rivero lovers. Come to think of it, Tinoire posted very very favourably as regards to Ron Paul. No lefty would ever do that, except for perhaps on the rare occurence of a shared view.

The problem with this website is I don't think they much stand up for the Palestinians either. Does the internet feel rigged or what? Anyway, this is where I found the picture of Tinoire with Wolfie. 8)

prosemite undercover

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I took a peek. It looks like Tinoire's friend wrote a whole blog devoted to yourself, unless there are others with your same story.


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Let's see who else is associated with the Progressive Independent?

There's the Desert Peace blog. Mr. Strawman himself, Wayne Madsen, is one of their first sponsors. No surprises so far. Hey, wait a second. What is Brad Friedman, owner of the BradBlog doing having his Velvet Revolution website as an affiliate site? Wow. I've only recently started to see the flaws of the BradBlog. Ugh. Now he's part of the same alternative news network as Rivero and Madsen? I've seen Madsen published by Raw Story. I'm smelling some rats.



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Of course, Rivero gets top billing. I think PI has gotten the same royal treatment from What Really Happened.


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The Langston Hughes is a clever way to woo the progressives.

Keep in mind that those in red are on "collaborative terms" with the Progressive Independent.


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DesertPeace
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Some tinfoil by association added in, a Willis Carto kind of thing:

Fight The NWO
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Also,

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Killtown? Doesn't he spread some of the more whackier theories concerning 9/11? And yikes with Kate-A-Blog. I've linked to her. They all seem to be part of a network of right woos left astroturfers. This is as much of a conspiracy theorist as I get. I think there are a lot of fakes running around on the internet.

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Here's another one, Jeff Wells of Rigorous Intuition. They have a lot of divide and conquer on Israel/Palestine at his forum. Tinoire started under Jeff Wells. Wells recently got banned as Minstrel Boy from the Democratic Underground for voting racist in a poll.


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Unknown News too? Ouch.


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This to me is the real shocker. Brad Friedman of the BradBlog runs Velvet Revolution.


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Finally, here's Tinoire's linking to Mr. good cop for the "Joos did it."


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Oh yeah, Tinoire likes A.N.S.W.E.R..


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First thing Bush did was take a hands off approach to Israel/Palestine. Clinton seemed to be making some ground. I bet there could be a new Palestinian state and peace in the Middle East. I guess peace and justice doesn't generate moolah for war profiteers.
socrates2
 

Unread postby The_Last_Name_Left » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:35 am

where's that picture from socrates? the ben heine one? i can't find the story.........

Do you see how ridiculous his defence is? He says I was posting ad hominem - by accusing someone of supporting fascism, and being a racist!? - He suggests i was indulging in personal invective - and yet the piece in question was about a person - Mike Rivero. How can I respond with well-founded charges of racism and fascism about "a person" without it being open to the charge of personal invective!? It's ridiculous.

Would criticism of Bush be personal attack? Ridiculous.

Progressive Independent is a scam, as you point out. You're of course totally right that no leftie is EVER going to support RonPaul - he stands for private healthcare, privatised social security, privatised education, border controls, free markets - on and on it goes. He's a nut.

And a picture taken with Wolfowitz!? International war criminal!??? Cute.

Clearly PI is an effort to include the more liberal and leftist leaning types, to defang them, to incorporate them, to reduce their radicalism, and to soak them in rightist bullshit.

How can they support WRH and Chomsky, when WRH publishes anti-chomsky stuff? None of it makes sense. But it works - at least with the politically ignorant......

the whole thing is a charade - one place says something, then all the rest quote them, republish it, and it steadily becomes part of the zeitgeist. Or that's what they clearly hope, at least.

I think some care must be taken though - the people they dupe are not neccessarily "in on it", and I think it's wrong to suggest everyone is "in on it". It's a quite sophisticated network they've got going, and its complex. Not everyone who supports Rivero supports his racism and his far-right affiliations, for example. I think there's a real danger of mistaking the dupes as willing participants. Of course, that's part of the intention - if nothing else, association can be used to later discredit the liberal and leftists who do get duped, thereby destroying them.
The_Last_Name_Left
 

Unread postby The_Last_Name_Left » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:37 am

ooops - left something out. After I said

Do you see how ridiculous his defence is? He says I was posting ad hominem - by accusing someone of supporting fascism, and being a racist!? - He suggests i was indulging in personal invective - and yet the piece in question was about a person - Mike Rivero. How can I respond with well-founded charges of racism and fascism about "a person" without it being open to the charge of personal invective!? It's ridiculous.


I should have pointed out that it's important to note he never mentions the substance of my criticism.

And what is his attack on me, if not ad hominem? Sheesh. These people........lol
The_Last_Name_Left
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:28 pm

It was a busy day at DesertPeace yesterday. I don't blame you for missing that one.

It Seems You Can't Please Everybody


Here's a new one for ya. You've made quite an impression on them. They are coming back with ad hominems. Someone is putting together a very flashy blog there with extensive photoshops and whatnot. Here's a Mike Rivero voodoo doll made just for you.


Here's Your Chance To Silence DesertPeace And Michael Rivero


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The thing is you can't even afford to attack DesertPeace too much. They have some darn good stuff there, albeit mixed in with the strawmen.

This is how I think the net is fundamentally rigged. People like us have no trouble at all as long as we are not too loud. But as soon as we make too much sense, that is when we get cybersmeared.

I checked out the comments on the original link in question. It was like an infomercial for Michael Rivero.


I think you hit the nail on the head for which websites need to be scrutinized for being possibly planted controlled opposition. There is a goofball website called BreakForNews, and on the surface it appears to have a keen awareness of this concept. However, it can be quickly determined that this domain has the same kind of inconstistencies to be found in freeper types playing as progressives. They deny man-made global warming. I'm not trying to start a global warming discussion here. But are progressives across the line going to think this way? This defies the laws of statistics. Just like with this Tinoire bonding with Rivero and Rense. That's just too damn convenient. Did I mention Wayne Madsen? Ugh.

We could make a chart and map out all the connections between various successful domains. We could connect many dots. They throw the ad hominems at people like us, because we have defied the odds and shown a determination to not be silenced. We must be doing something right to get attacked so much.

At least no one can say we have delusions of grandeur and have illusions of internet censorship applied to ourselves. We can show through the WRH forum thread in the astroturfing section here, that we were set upon. Tinoire of PI should have stayed clear of this. When are they going to learn to just start ignoring people like us? Don't they ever see that we are the Harlem Globetrotters and they are the Washington Generals? {a bit of Americana}


Every mistake they are caught doing is more proof that all this blah blah blah may be beyond differences of opinions. They go to ratcheting the noise and throwing out ad hominems. We go to the proof and ask WTF?


the whole thing is a charade - one place says something, then all the rest quote them, republish it, and it steadily becomes part of the zeitgeist. Or that's what they clearly hope, at least.


This is as close to being a conspiracy theorist as I get. While only isolated instances have been proven as being paid trolling, I believe that there is virtually no authentic freedom of association in the blogosphere. I tried to make it through the BradBlog. I've tried to pay my dues. I used to get on Arianna's sunday post. I tried the PI too. Ouch.

Through my amateur sleuthing, I came up with a good chunk of info on how the electoral integrity issues have been portrayed on the internet. BradBlog put a clampdown on that info. Then it turns out that there has been as much planted convolution with this topic as there has been with global warming, 9/11, Bush and the Neocons, conspiracy chatter, etc..

I wipe my hands of the BradBlog. They have a Tinoire clone as a moderator, an Agent99. Brad Friedman has done squat to protect Bev Harris from the mountain of smear jobs on herself. He praises a kook named Ben Burch. This guy Andy Stephenson claimed to be in contact with Mike Vreeland. The convolution and rabbit holes run very deep. People like me and you are not wanted anywhere near the planted convolution.



The zeitgeist. Precisely.



They set it up so it is very difficult to ask the tough, critical questions. They blew it by going after us.



Page 8, those screenshots of your last thread at Rivero's forum, says it all. It's funny how a few nobodies ended up being tied into major convolution. I think they know ultimately, that they have lost this battle to our side. They are simply sending a message to everyone else that this is what happens if you try to expose the script. Everything they do backfires. They are cornered to continue to post in the manners they were established to do so. Do you think a guy like Markos Zuniga of DailyKos reaches the top through luck and hard work? Same with Michael Rivero. I don't think so. And even if Rivero isn't a spook, which I think he is, based on what we went through at his forum, he absolutey has deep ties to the fringe right.
socrates2
 

Unread postby The_Last_Name_Left » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:23 pm

I honestly don't know about a lot of the people you mention.

The people I do know about, and the basic connections between them that pass through Rivero, Rense, and Alex Jones are indicated in this map I was putting together. I haven't worked on it for a while, because I became overcome with the scale of it.

Do you know if there is some software that helps create maps of such connections?

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The_Last_Name_Left
 

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