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Hey Socrates

manufactured grassroots, disinfo, and insidious marketing

Unread postby socrates2 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:28 pm

Please sign in as The_Last_Name_Left, otherwise I have to keep fixing that.

That's not a bad diagram. I've never tried anything like that, haven't a clue.

Sorry for all the name dropping. It gets to be an informational overload. Those were some names involved with the election integrity forums. Those have had their own bedrock of planted convolution. One person tagged as a paid troll turned out to be Rob Pelletier of Diebold. Others have made a cottage industry out of bashing Bev Harris. We'd need a lot more than two people to cover all the bs that is being posted on the internet.

Ben Burch is one of the names I mentioned. He runs something called the White Rose Society which archives progressive radio shows. He was one of the fiercest Bev Bashers. He also once came up with a lame inside tip about some kind of fals flag, nwo nonsense.

Brad Friedman runs the BradBlog. He's a big fan of Ben and is an apologist for most who were all over Bev Harris while Rome burned.

He is tied to Raw Story. Those two are linked to Democratic Underground, as are a lot of people. They remind me of that contrived zeitgeist feeling you mentioned.

Andy Stephenson used to work for Bev Harris. He claimed to be in contact with Mike Vreeland, one of those tinfoil stories coming out of your 9/11 topic. He also made similar chicken little threads like the one Burch made.

Unread postby the_last_name_left » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:51 am

I've heard of those people - and most of what I know about them has come from reading your posts about them.

I've seen the Bev Harris stuff though. Blackboxvoting. I was surprised, but also not surprised, to see her get bashed. Can't do something like that without getting ****.

I've been trying to post at smokingmirrors.blogspot.com - somewhere Rivero links to, the source of the WRH puff-piece that featured at WRH and desertpeace.wordpress.com.

He actually posted a couple of my posts - even though comments are moderated.

He said he doesn't know anything about Curt Maynard. Even after I showed him!

He makes the usual provably false claims about the ICRC and the holocaust; he asks why if Auschwitz reduced the figures how come the overall figure for holocaust didn't come down. Holocaust denial = nazi rehabilitation. Holocaust denial = nazi apologia.

He claims he has evidence for "everything he said". But 5 times he uses the quote "Sharon bragged 'we the jews control america'". I explained it was fabricated quote - one employed by Rivero - and one which Rivero uses to say "Why shouldn't I hate someone who says that?" *BECAUSE IT'S MADE UP, MR RIVERO, AND YOU KNOW IT*

As it is made-up, and Rivero knows it, he is saying "I can justify my hate based on lies". Which is really rather revealing, isn't it?

smokingmirrors stopped posting my comments - having accused me of being "a disinfo agent". Apparently nobody else is saying what I am about Rivero - so it can't be true! lol That's what he said!

I found the quotes that WRH wiki deleted. How many times did they delete them? A few. They're all rivero quotes....


June 02, 2004 It's All About the Oil I've been saying that all along. - M. R.


Join the US Army. Die for Israel. - M. R.


Your children were killed for for a foreign nation, offered up by the US Government as a blood sacrifice to Israel, traded for "campaign donations" You think about that one for a while. - M. R.


But remember: our invasion and occupation of Iraq never had a thing to do with the well-being of the people of Iraq: it was, and remains, only about the oi.l - M. R.


A very popular theory is that Iraq is an oil war, brought about by declining supplies and the inability of the US to meet rising prices (having lost much of its manufacturing capability over the last 30 years). Yet this explanation for Iraq is also deeply flawed, for Bush is spending $10 billion a month in Iraq to extract out only $150 million in oil. Were oil the true objective, it would have been far cheaper to simply buy it from Iraq. So, what is left? We have eliminated the impossible, Dr. Watson! What is left? Look above the statements made by Israel's supporters! Who wanted this war? - M. R.


So what was the truth of why we went to war? In one word: oil. - M. R.


October 19, 2005 ....a special note to all the military people who read this. The US Government is SELLING you to a foreign government to fight and die in wars of their creation, in exchange for campaign contributions from an organization that is a known spy outfit for that nation. How does it feel to be uniformed cattle, bartered to the highest bidder for slaughter? - M. R.


These people do not hate us "because we are free": they hate us because we are occupying their sovereign country to steal their oil: it's just that simple. - M. R. {iraq.html link}


In exchange for money, a certain group of people have agreed to let your kids be killed. That group is the United States Congress. And for the last several years, many of them have been accepting money from AIPAC, a supposed lobbying group that stands exposed as a spy operation for a foreign government, in order to promote that foreign government's agenda, which includes war in the Mideast, waged against that foreign government's enemies. - M. R. {priceofyourchild.html link}


Alan Greenspan claims Iraq war was really for oil We knew that. - M. R. {iraq.html link}


those who drove us into war did so not for the nation in which they live and prosper, but for a foreign power. - M. R. wardraft.html link}


But it should be obvious that pro-Israeli PAC money has been spent on Congressmen in enough quantity to control the ultimate outcome, and each and every member of Congress who accepted money from AIPAC and then voted against ending the war has taken money from an organization that is spying for a foreign government, to sell YOUR children to fight and die in a war that foreign government desired. We know that this is true because there is no other reason for the war. There were no WMDs. Iraq was neither linked to Al Qaeda nor linked to 9-11. The oil does not make economic sense. What is left? - M. R. {priceofyourchild.html link}


But hey, after the oil law gets signed by the Iraqi parliament this year, that makes it all "worth it", doesn't it?!? - M. R. {iraq.html link}


"Join the US Army, get your head blown off for Israel." - M. R. {wardraft.html link}


The plain truth is that America's military servicemen ARE NOT "dying for their country," instead, they've been rented out to violently advance the hegemony expansion of Israel. - M. R. {wardraft.html link}


But remember: our invasion and occupation of Iraq never had a thing to do with the well-being of the people of Iraq: it was, and remains, only about the oi.l - M. R. {iraq.html link}


"Join the US Army, get your head blown off for Israel." - M. R. {wardraft.html link}


Israel's war. - M. R. {wardraft.html link}


Remember, the invasion and occupation of Iraq was never about the betterment of the lives of the Iraqi people and the practice of "democracy": it has always been, and will always be, about securing the oil. - M. R. {iraq.html link}

10:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)pretty_anonymous

and these ones, which I think you've seen me post at WRH official-unofficial forum

May 17, 2007

I have no problem with the suggestion that hackers are terrorists.

-- M. R.

January 06, 2007

If we treated the hackers the way we treated accused enemy combatants, every computer would be safe and secure.

-- M. R.

April 13, 2007

Time to waterboard the hackers.

-- M. R.

April 29, 2006

Ransom Trojan demands money with menaces
Reports are coming in of a Trojan that demands a ransom from users and threatens to delete data if payment is not made.


This is, under the USAPATRIOT act, and any reasonable definition of the word, an act of terror.

Please explain to us taxpayers who pay your salary and for those nice offices you sit in why none of you clowns appears to be able to do anything about these hackers? Why aren;t THEY in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.............

-- M. R.

March 13, 2007

India Hackers Indicted for Hijacking Online Brokerage Accounts

--Fry the bastards!

-- M. R.

September 18, 2006

......we need to have such severe legal penalties for hacking that no hacker will dare take the chance of being caught.

We have hundreds of innocent people in Guantanamo. Let's release them and throw the guilty hackers in there.

-- M. R.

June 18, 2006

Hackers ......

If anyone SHOULD be in Guantanamo, it's these bozos.

-- M. R.

May 11 2006

Hacker fears wrath of US court as judge urges his extradition
Gary McKinnon believes that he could be sent to Guantanamo Bay and tried by a military tribunal if his extradition goes ahead. He said that he was “practically already hung and quartered” if US government claims that he would face a federal court in Virginia proved correct.

--This is a problem?

-- M. R.

May 27 2006

The time has comer to treat hackers as the domestic terrorists that they are, and if the NSA and CIA ever wish to regain their credibility that they can actually DO anything other than peak into our bedroom windows at night, then let's seem them find these cyber-criminals and deal with them.

I am "hurling the defy" on this one. Let's see the spook boys quit pretending to be chasing imaginary terrorists and go after some real-world criminals. Let's see them actually earn those taxpayer dollars they suck up.

Because if they can't catch some pimply faced smelly kid with a PC, then they are totally useless against a real adversary with the resources of a nation-state.

-- M. R.

Jan 31 2007

Okay, I think that we have reached the point where firing squads for hackers are going to be cheaper than all this security crap paid for by millions of computer users.

-- M. R.


All deleted BY rivero's minions.

Unread postby Helix » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:17 pm

THanks for hanging in there.....Later

Unread postby socrates2 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:53 pm

Thanks for looking into the Bev Harris, considering you're across the pond. That is a long, convoluted story of how she got team tackled and proclaimed a grifter. Most of those attacks took place at the Democratic Underground.

I'd post at Bev Harris' place, but I'm no expert on the election fraud issue. Plus, you have to supply your real name with your posts, something I don't want to do. Some writers used to have pen names. It should be the body of work we present, rather than who we are, that matters.

I tried to interest Brad Friedman to look into this foisted on us zeitgeist crap, but he appears to be a form of gatekeeper. He could have put a real stop to the Bev Bashing, or at least helped her out with a few supporting posts. His silence on certain things is disturbing. He tries to keep people in line via private emails. That's how a lot dissent like this is suppressed. I bet Rivero writes back to a lot of his readers. I wrote him a question a long time ago. I asked him why he was all over the Mossad but had little to say about the CIA and other military/intel institutions. He brushed it off telling me he'd try to balance it out better. So he probably ships off deniable plausibility like that to his more critically thinking readers.

It wasn't until the ******** from last year that I really started to see Rivero for his overall role on the internet. It is a big role, no doubt about it. Just like with Alex Jones.

Brad Friedman has his own sites, the BradBlog and Velvet Revolution. I was floored to see that he is in collaboration with the now exposed Progressive Independent, which is tied to Rivero. But this does explain his moderator.

They are trying to pigeon hole me as a fakety fakester critic. It's not my fault that the story behind Brad Friedman's rise to popularity on the net was due to a very shady story. It involved someone named Clint Curtis.

I came up with all this info on Steven Hertzberg, and not once has Brad interacted with the collected data. That to me is gatekeeping. Hertzberg ended up bank rolling Ron Paul websites. He was also a right woos left blogger at BreakForNews {as Navari}. That guy used to run something called the Election Science Institute. His brother Robert once even ran for mayor of Los Angeles.

Right after the 2000 election, the politician brother sponsored a bill for funding electronic voting technology. The astroturfer brother went on to whitewash the results of the 2004 Ohio election for President.

But BradBlog doesn't want to have anything to do with that. The moderator is also a Tinoire clone. If one looks at the Curtis story, one finds out that he claims to have been requested to create a code to switch votes with electronic touchscreen machines. That was around October, 2000. But there was no crying out yet for electronic voting machines back then. They were not even being used yet. The clamor for the electronic voting machines started because of the 2000 election. The guy passed a lie detector test, but we have no access to the questions.

That story was also covered by Wayne Madsen. Brad's buddies with Larissa of Raw Story. She links to Madsen occasionally. I give up ever again trusting anyone until I've fully checked them out and considered the totality of their work. That's been my biggest problem with the forums. I find out after the fact how messed up they are. I'm learning too many lessons along the way rather than being equipped witgh such knowledge to begin with.

I think that's why we keep making these types of posts. With a guy like Rivero, we are saying stop, wait a second, think hard about what this guy has been promoting. Reflect on why he is connected to so many bizarre comments and people.

Then we find out Brad Friedman is somehow connected to that racket via the Velvet Revolution. The letdowns are getting to be too much.

Both of us have uncovered a lot of ******** on the internet. Last year, we both along with may41970 got singled out for abuse. But they didn't get away with it. Our story survived, while there's got scrubbed. Thank God for screenshots.

Here's Rivero featuring the Piper kid again with the anti-semitism. Anyone connected with Rivero in any way is suspect. The dots can certainly be connected to Willis Carto, David Duke, and many others.


The WRH "Unofficial" Forum was clearly Rivero associated. They held his letters. They were featured prominently at Rivero's place.

Good thing a lot of the cointelpro crap posted at the WRH forum has been saved. I'm really glad you came back here and helped to tie some of the loose ends.

Rivero is a menace to democracy, no doubt about it. He used to be a prolific poster on Free Republic, the place of which the word freeper was coined.

He was brutal as regards to Bill Clinton. He was one of the first "conspiracy theorists." He has been at the forefront of saying that 'the joos did it'.

He might not even believe half the stuff he posts. He appears to have a paid gig with his internet activities. How else to explain it? It's as if he goes out of his way to present himself as a strawman. Same with Madsen, Dunne, etc.. We all know about Flocco, Carto, and Rense at this point. The second wave of probably rigged domains {e.g. The DailyKos} have also been identified.

We know that fakes are all over the public comments sections in the blogosphere. It is brutally obvious, along with some new things like Netvocates, the Rendon Group, Bivings, Advantage Consultants, et al that we are now aware of.

Sorry to go off on the ramble. My main point is these people seem to mess up on purpose. I think they do this as part of the overall zeitgeist script. Ha. I can't get that word out of my head since you mentioned it. It's got a zing to it like astroturfing.

I think we are a pocket of awareness. Our types aren't wanted on the big boards. Those are dominated by crazy believers and closed-minded debunkers. Or there's even a lot of petty chat going on at a place like Democratic Underground.

Oh yeah, I'm not sure what is up with Rivero's tirades against hackers. It seems a bit forced.

I remember NoWarForIsrael used to spam the HuffingtonPost.

How is the internet not rigged and/or being gamed?

Unread postby socrates2 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:58 pm

Helix wrote:THanks for hanging in there.....Later

Hey Helix, long time, no talk. I hope all is well. Don't be scared to start a new thread and tell us your chemtrail story and theories. Our Hiaper plane got discussed recently in another thread.

I'm very happy off of the high speed. There was just never an end to what to web surf. Now if I spend time on the comp, I have to make it worth it.

Any ideas on Mike Rivero? Or any of this Carto type topics? Otherwise, maybe talk with ya on another thread. Take it easy. Good Luck.

Unread postby Helix » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:05 pm

I believe that 'Ender' was a very clever disguise for MR.

Unread postby socrates2 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:19 pm

A lot of those links don't take us to the actual Rivero quotes, but they do sound like him. There is enough dirt on Rivero anyway for it to be clear what he truly represents.


...when Arial Sharon openly bragged on October 3rd that, "We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it", why should I not find this statement objectionable, and anti-American?

Rivero has been one of the main instigators of the idea that Israelis did 9/11.


Also, we can see that he is linking to Piper. We can see that he used to pimp for the Special Forces Underground. We know that he advertised for the "unofficial" forum and allowed them to house his letters.

The cointelpro-like activities at that forum had been apparent for the longest time. I first heard about it here from may41970 back in June, 2007.

I don't think Rivero is Ender. But I can see how someone could speculate that.

I think Ender might be "Louis Aubuchont." But I admit that too is speculation. Lou would be the one guy quite capable of mounting and coordinating that attack on us, the one with the fake lawyer, the one where Last Name was accused of slander.

The dark side doesn't mind the truth about Rivero being known. They just don't want the pockets of awareness spreading the message. They want fake debunkers and their useful idiots to be the ones to make fun of the loony blogosphere.

This couldn't be more clear.

They don't want real people to start connecting the dots. They did not want Tinoire and Jeff Wells tied into the cybersmear script, but they were, and thus more connections have been made.

It's tough to know who is a dupe and who is a plant. It just sets funny with me how up close those two got to the fake socrates nonsense.

I was banned from reading and posting at Rigorous Intuition before making one post. Swampgas gave my internet address to Arcadia Ego. They were actually looking out for me perhaps posting there! Wtf? Think about it. Before I came anywhere near to Tinoire and the PI, the dark side didn't want me to go after Wells. Now we know Wells and Tinoire are tight. We see Tinoire's ties to Rivero.

It's been known for a long time what Rivero is about. People like us just don't want newbies being suckered in, so we keep speaking truth to script.


Rivero Ravaged

Posted by damian
December 10, 2002

The mysterious "S. Boyle" has posted an expose of Mikey Rivero and whatreallyhappened.com on several IndyMedia websites. It turns out that our favorite conspiro-freakazoid has some shady corporate backing - and he used to write for a white-supremacist magazine. (Remember, this guy says Israel is "racist".) Boyle actually cites my own sordid experience trying to convince Mikey that Ariel Sharon never said, "we, the Jewish people, control America".

I direct your attention to the D.C. IndyMedia site, where one respondent says Rivero is a government disinformation specialist. Which would make a lot of sense, come to think of it:

Rivero, What Really Happened, Go off, Dandelion, Gordon Thomas are essentially all part of an inbred and incestuous network of Right Wing propagandists and disinformation artists.

They included not only the standard Hard Right outlets like Newsmax but also Christian Fascist moupieces like Dandelion.

Their political function and agenda in general is to act as a phony opposition or Trojan Horse media specifically targetted towards those people who question the official story. If you study the disinformation put out by these propagandists, you will see a similar pattern in that they question the official story or version of events--only to carefully spin the issue in a way which just so happens to reinforce their own Right Wing agendas and political campaigns.

In particular with respect to 9-11, most of the sites have tried to seize upon obvious holes and lies in the official story about 9-11 in order to direct and deflect blame AWAY from the Bush Regime and American State in general towards some foreign bogeyman or patsy.

The bottom line is that these pseudo-alternative media outlets set up by the Right Wing have the effect of being classic CIA style psyops operations. They question the official story, only to steer and focus attention away from the more fascistic political factions which support the American military-corporate complex onto a suitable "enemy" foreign or domestic.

Gotta love these 'Midiots.

Update: Oh, this is just beautiful. Rivero himself actually posts a pathetic non-response on IndyMedia UK, in which he admits to posting the white-supremacist magazine on his website, but rationalizes it thusly:

In point of fact I was never an editor for the Resister. I merely posted the newsletter as received. And, as onorous as the statement "created by white men for white men" may be to modern sensibilitirs, that was in fact the philosophy of the foubnders of the nation, as evidenced by their treatment of the natives.

Glad he cleared that up. Rivero also says a google search will prove that an Israeli company in the World Trade Center was warned about the 9/11 attacks, and ends with a series of "quotes" which supposedly prove that, surprise, Israel is racist. Almost all of the quotes are taken grossly out of context or are obviously phony - including (you guessed it!) Ariel Sharon saying, "we, the Jewish people control America."

Unread postby the_last_name_left » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:10 pm

S Boyle deserves a lot of credit, whoever it is/was.

I'm glad you seem less disheartened than you did a few weeks ago. That's why I posted my 'attack' on you - because you seemed so disheartened. And if you're genuine, I don't want you to feel alone.

And how do you tell someone is "genuine"? I don't know that there's any way to tell - but as you suggested, you have to take the totality of what people have said and done. And that's what I was trying to get through to you - something along the lines of that quote -(who was it?) which says something like "you don't have to have a good memory to speak the truth. liars need a good memory - the truth just IS and persists". famous american writer, whose name completely escapes me right now. damn! lol 2+2=4, now and always. That's Orwell - I'd have to be dieing to forget that.

Deep down deceivers know they are being deceptive. Good people have doubts about themselves. Because they have a conscience.

So yeah - hang in there, Bob. :)

Perhaps my favourite bob marley song.

I'm a living man, I've got work to do..........

Unread postby socrates2 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:12 pm

Thanks for that, Last_Name_Left. There were probably a good number of lurkers who witnessed what happened at the WRH forum and are grateful the thing got preserved. Not only do we have that scrubbed long thread saved, the one you started, there were the other screenshots proving the extent of the hatred exhibited towards Jewish people.

There's the kind of crap we went through, then there's the big picture. Hopefully, people will look into the background of Mike Rivero. Perhaps he is part of a large astroturfing firm.

A guy like Helix says he saw it happen. We were just the right people at the right time to fight back and expose the hate.

Some of those Ender quotes seemed illegal, like some kind of inciting of violence. Maybe the WRH forum was similar to the Hal Turner deal. There was the hate disinfo, and then perhaps someone at the AlaskaFreePress also had the FBI on their blackberry.

Yeah, Bob Marley was wicked awesome, as they say in Boston.

I can live with this forum, because it has exposed how the internet is rigged, for lack of a better phrase, like psychological operations. That Ender character had to be a paid fake, no?

The length of the psy-op, including the outrageous ending with the fake lawyer who couldn't even spell advice correctly, tells me that was not a few rednecks getting together and creating a sophisticated cybersmear prank.

I outed a lot of fake nonsense with the chemtrails. I also phrase it as "weather mitigation." There is something called Gel Tech solutions. The idea of chemtrails is not that outrageous. That's just how it's been portrayed on the internet.

Unread postby socrates2 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:12 pm

Hey Last_Name_Left, if you're still around for this thread, thanks for all the work you have done over the years.

I checked out your wrh/maynard thread a bit closer. Very good.

It is friggen ironic that Rivero now links to yourself and that guy Trausti. His proxies are running around in circles deleting your posts at that place you showed me, the one linked to Tinoire.....who is linked to Wolfowitz.

I think they should answer up to the Maynard quotes. If you look at one of the threads above on CPellet, I kind of went after her a bit for her associations with people who link into this "The Jews Own You" network. She had the courtesy to respond that she realises these people can be nutjobs, but that she is just trying to get her message out. I said I agree to disagree. These other people delete you.

I got banned from Progressive Independent for calling someone out for a comment about "the jews." Tinoire went and deleted all my posts. She even awkwardly rearranged threads to make me look like a troll.

I was just being like you. Not abusive. Just being a fricken gadfly. Just saying face the music. Another website with a forum war with PI saw the whole thing and even wrote up a thread thanking me for standing up to bigotry. It wasn't my cup of tea for a forum, I thanked them and was on my way.

So I don't doubt you that Tinoire's associate's place is sending your internet address one place, while the rest of us are sent elsewhere without your comments showing.

If that's not circumstantial evidence for that place being a counter-intelligence program type dive, then what is?

They throw in some good stuff, too, making it harder for us to completely throw them under the bridge.

Some are incredibably hard to attack, like RawStory. It has some of the best info for a daily internet paper as there is. I just don't trust it now that I've found out a convicted bomber, drug dealer, someone charged with murder being a part of the funding, if not THE FUNDING.

So maybe The RawStory just gives us enough of Lefty edged news to keep us from really digging. They seem to be astroturfing that we are f$^%ed, so just let out a scream at the evil world order.

There's a lot of shallowness on the internet. I think that is a big part of the scam.

No one's perfect, but it's really not that tough to play fair when debating and researching on internet forums.

I think the ptb's put all this together {the net} in a way to deny us of our freedom of association.


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