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Let's talk calmly about global warming

tinfoil by association

Let's talk calmly about global warming

Unread postby deleted username » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:25 am

Some years ago, the holes in the ozone were a big deal in the press. All the time we read and heard about the holes in the ozone. Skin cancer was a big fear at the time. Now, no one talks about the ozone holes anymore. You don't hear so much about skin cancer anymore. Cause now it's all "global warming."

Right or wrong, here's my take on it....

The first time I ever heard about "global warming" was a couple years ago at the Yahoo message boards. People started posting about how the vice president of the United States, Al Gore, had made a movie about how the Earth was in big trouble.

Right away, alarm bells went off in my head. I mean, if global warming were such a disaster, shouldn't it be brought to us by scientists, and not politicians?

At the time I first learned about global warming...I was currently becoming a bigger fan of Mike Rivero. Not only did he post fantastic links, ask pertinent questions about 911, but he also frequently posted / responded to my letters. I really felt being part of the Mike Rivero's site was doing something to make some kind of positive change. Each time he posted or responded to one of my letters, I got a rush. Maybe I wasn't a nobody.

Yes, I now know better.

It took a long time for me to see Rivero for his true colors. If not for socrates, I probably never would have. It took a long time, but I eventually learned better.

Mike doesn't believe in global warming. It was at Mike's sight that I first saw links to Michael Crichton's powerful article on politicized science and Global warming. It impressed me no end at the time. And it still impresses me.

crichton-official.com/essay-stateoffear-whypoliticizedscienceisdangerous.html

If yiou want to read further, here's another quite long, but possibly superior article:

crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html


Do I believe that burning oil is messing up the world's atmosphere? Yes. But when the media and poltiicans and big-business start screaming about it, alarm bells go off for me. I mean, since when have politicians and big-business ever shown that they care about the health, safety, and comfort of the common guy?

=============

Okay, I wanna take a quick turn or subject.

I teach English in Taiwan. A few weeks ago, a 17-year old high school student asked me to help her prepare for a speech contest. The subject of the contest?

"WHAT LAWS SHOULD TAIWAN PASS TO PROTECT ITSELF FROM GLOBAL WARMING?"

I asked her, "How can Taiwan pass laws about a scientific theory?"

She respnded, "It's not a theory. it's a fact. All my teachers told me. We even saw a movie at school about it."

this inspired the "Rosinante" post that so offended Socrates. The one that linked to the Crichton article. Actually, it's not a surprise for socrates. He's known for a long time that I've admired that article.

This also led to me to printing up Crichton''s essays, helping to translate them to my student, and also to an amazing class discussion on ithe ideas of politicans, businessmen, and profiteers - and how they might possibly use "science" to their benefit.

I guess it's the simple fact that the Al Gore; that the American and British Media; that the Taiwan media all TELL us that "Global Warming" is a fact - I think that's what makes me so eager to want to find out more about it. I gues that's what makes me so distrustful.

So let's talk. Please read the first Crichton Link. Read the second one if you've got the time. I think the Crichton articles are brilliant. So can someone, without anger, without insults - show me where Crichton is mistaken? Where I'm mistaken.

may41970
deleted username
 

Re: Let's talk calmly about global warming

Unread postby socrates2 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:22 am

may41970 wrote:Cause now it's all "global warming."

....

The first time I ever heard about "global warming" was a couple years ago at the Yahoo message boards. People started posting about how the vice president of the United States, Al Gore, had made a movie about how the Earth was in big trouble.



This propaganda you are spewing is nothing new and coincides with your relatively recent awareness that there is man-made global warming. That fact has been known for many decades. Only since the topic has entered the mainstream media have we seen astorturfers emerge in full force on the internet.






I mean, if global warming were such a disaster, shouldn't it be brought to us by scientists, and not politicians?


I am off of high speed internet. I don't have the time to track down info to totally expose your side as the one bought and sold. I don't want your disinfo on this website anymore.

At the time I first learned about global warming...I was currently becoming a bigger fan of Mike Rivero. Not only did he post fantastic links, ask pertinent questions about 911, but he also frequently posted / responded to my letters. I really felt being part of the Mike Rivero's site was doing something to make some kind of positive change. Each time he posted or responded to one of my letters, I got a rush. Maybe I wasn't a nobody.


Enough with your nonsense. Mike Rivero has been behind much of the anti-semitism on the internet getting any kind of look through. I don't waste my time on such planted nonsense. Your sources cannot be trusted. Time and again you have steered this forum towards convolution.
socrates2
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:03 pm

Yet again you have nothing to add to the current threads in this forum. The Kimberlin story looks huge, but you got nothing. Last_Name_Left and myself took a few more cuts at the rightwing propaganda network, and you offered nothing.

There's no need for another global warming debate thread. Ok, we get it. May41970 thinks man-made global warming is a hoax.

No chemtrail pictures from Taiwan. But thanks for the story about how you tried to brainwash the students with reactionary dogma.

Seriously, please offer something of substance as regards to topics being looked at in this place, or please go away.
socrates2
 

My stance on Global Warming posted back on May 09, 2007

Unread postby Lophofo » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:35 pm

Global Warming Denial Machine

{on edit: I'm going around putting all Lophofo.com links into protected code. These images were uploaded by me when we went through the upgrade to the new forum. I re-took the screenshots for this post so they would look better. These are ok to click on without Lophofo keeping track of people clicking into his BlueHost domain. Jan. 16th, 2009}

screenshot #1
screenshot #2

Re: Global Warming Denial Machine
« Reply #5 on May 9, 2007, 7:57pm »
>:(

Well, with fiction authors such as Michael Crichton telling people in his book that Global Warming is actually being caused by the increase in concrete in big cities that is trapping in the heat -- that it's man made, but naturally due to man's expansion, not necessarily pollution of the environment, there's more confusion to add to everyone's explanation of what is causing Global Warming.

Meanwhile, we have the military spending billions of dollars in jet fuel and top secret experiments to pollute our skies for weather modification, communication experiments, and others to promote an added advantage -- all done in the name of national security.

Yet, they take this confusion of everyone's differing beliefs in the Global Warming stance and throw it into the mix. They say, "Oh, those aren't chemtrails. That's just due to the natural increase in air traffic." Yeah, and that's why some days you'll see 80 jets in the sky...all making chemtrails every which way thick as can be...with 4 streams being left behind, traveling upward and downward at 60 degree angles. But hey, those are just commercial jets, right? Yeah, we'll believe that one. 'Cause we're the sheep, and they are our protectful shepherd...keeping us out of harm from Osama Bin Laden and the other terrorists.

Oh, and if people start to really believe that these are chemtrails, then they will say...well, see the scientists all agree with us that Global Warming has really been happening all along. And secretly, because we couldn't tell you out of national security, we've been dumping all these helpful "elements" into the upper atmosphere to actually prevent Global Warming. See, we couldn't actually tell you it was happening, because we didn't want a panic. We just conditionalize you through the use of Hollywood movies so you will think what we want you to, and react how we believe you should. And to help us further that condition, we will give you Fox and CNN...and Bill O'reilly. And anyone who disagrees with Mr. Bill, we will make a fool out of.

Even though, the whole story about them dumping these chemicals to prevent global warming is a bunch of BS also. It turns out that actually may be contributing even more to global warming.

But, the government will have already approved more funding to them to help stop this global warming that the people believe is being done with the dumping of these terrible chemicals into the atmosphere. When in reality, the government has clamped down on scientists speaking out, has limited the use of the EPA library, has put in place Michael Leavitt (their puppet boy) to say what they want about the current state of the environment. And we, in turn, get lied to time and time again. The truth gets covered up once again.

And the boys in black continue to mess with their big toys in Alaska with their use of HAARP, cyclotronic resonance, the use of steering the ionosphere for the benefit of not only controlling the weather, but of enhancing military communications. The use of chemtrails is not only a way of measuring this ability at specific spots where the jet stream has changed or been enhanced. But, it is the use of specific, harmful, "elements" that will enhance communication radar, and the ability of HAARP.

This is all done under the guise of national security for the moment. But, when the world finally wakes up to chemtrails, which it is more and more, then they will say it's been done under the guise of Global Warming. Yeah, are we causing it? You bet we are. And we're probably causing it more than most people care to believe.

Meanwhile, we suffer the fallout and diseases of this awful pollution. But, when has the government ever been one to care about the sacrificing of lives to increase ones military agendas or enhance ones political greed?

It's all about control. And right now, the government has more than their share. It's time to change that. It's time for Ron Paul.
« Last Edit: May 9, 2007, 8:02pm by lophofo »


Socrates is correct when he says that climate change and global warming are becoming national security issues. Things are happening behind the scenes and laws are being passed without the people's voice so they can legalize what's already being done without any penalty. That's part of the reason there's all this kookiness being portrayed when it comes to chemtrails and ionospheric heating experiments like H.A.A.R.P. They play up the weather wars aspect, the depopulation control garbage, the mind control, and any other ludicrous claims...which makes real scientific pursuers kooky by association with the other disinfo crap.

I've stumbled across articles during my research which talk about atmospheric physics and UV-B rays. I' m sure that is being studied as well. I think the angle they want to portray to the public is that all these natural disasters, temperatures rising and such is due to global warming and climate change. Then, they can get the legislation and funding passed. No one wants to address the things that socrates mentions in his other thread in regards to what Rosalind Peterson has to say, link

I, as well, will not debate global warming. I've seen past those schemes more than a year ago.
Lophofo
 

Unread postby may41970 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:39 pm

Yet again you have nothing to add to the current threads in this forum. The Kimberlin story looks huge, but you got nothing.


The Kimberlin story is amazing. But this thread is about global warming.

Last_Name_Left and myself took a few more cuts at the rightwing propaganda network, and you offered nothing.


At one time, you were calling Last_name_Left a phony, and I stood up for him. I'm glad to see that you've reconsidered and have started talking with him again. We can all make mistakes, right?

Ok, we get it. May41970 thinks man-made global warming is a hoax.


That's a lie. I've never said or thought that. Unless you can provide proof I said it, you owe me a retraction and an apology.

No chemtrail pictures from Taiwan.


That's another lie. You know my taiwan chemtrail photos were posted here at this site.

But thanks for the story about how you tried to brainwash the students with reactionary dogma.


You're not playing fairly, socrates. In fact, you're acting like a jerk.

Seriously, please offer something of substance as regards to topics being looked at in this place, or please go away.
.

You've made a lot of personal attacks and accusations against me in the last couple weeks. Some are exaggerations, others are outright lies. How about we all lighten up on the personal attacks? Kay?
may41970
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:52 pm

Wow, Lophofo with the Ron Paul. But that's cool. Agree to disagree.

You see may41970, this isn't about getting into long-winded debates about anthropogenic global warming. There are a million web pages and forums that have covered every angle of this. You can go to fancy science forums like RealClimate and get the lowdown.

You are coming across as a stereotypical conspiracy theorist. You sound like all the nuts at Chemtrail Central like Orwell Knows, Stitcherman, and Pak. You're killing us here, may41970.

No one wants to hear of your space landing hoax, Margie Shoendinger, that 2,000,000 Jews were killed instead of 6,000,000, your on again, off again relationship with the propagandist Mike Rivero, and now this global warming hoax theory.

You see, it makes no sense to post that you now see through Rivero, but that he has it right with global warming. You are muddying the waters. You have been offering little value to this place for a long time now.

As for the photos, I obviously didn't mean those ones with the wrong dates that you scanned from real photos. You could have borrowed a decent camera and got us a real good chemtrail flurry with the right times and a better focus.

There were a million things posted here, you could have helped. I just came into a goldmine with the Brett Kimberlin story, and BlueSkyHope was perfect. She helped remind me what I forgot to emphasize. You never really help in that way. I thought you could see the big picture and could tone down your awkwardly, conspiratoria,l slanting ways. But no. You keep dragging this type of thing in here.

I don't like what you provide to this forum and am not gonna debate anything with you. If you have anything of value to add, then fine.

You are doing everything in your power to prevent us from taking our proper place in chemtrail forum history. Lophofo did a good job tracking down the Gastronamus Cafe post. We have roots that you are trying to destroy. Until you engage with the tons of stuff already posted about chemtrails on this forum, you have no right to post your global warming conspiracy chatter.
socrates2
 

Unread postby may41970 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:11 pm

You see may41970, this isn't about getting into long-winded debates about anthropogenic global warming.


Who said anything about getting into "long-winded debates?? I just wanted to talk about Cricton's essay(s), which are more about politicized science then anything. I find his essay(s) to be logical. I asked someone to show me where his faulty reasoning lies. I also wanted to show how I came to have questions about global warming as a scientific fact.

For a discussion form, it's strange you don't want to discuss. I couldn't really follow Lophofo's post - but it didn't seem to have anything to do with Cricton's essay. Have you even read it the essay yet?


You are coming across as a stereotypical conspiracy theorist. You sound like all the nuts at Chemtrail Central like Orwell Knows, Stitcherman, and Pak. You're killing us here, may41970.

That's a strange thing to say, socrates. How is posting here "killing your forum?"

No one wants to hear of your space landing hoax, Margie Shoendinger, that 2,000,000 Jews were killed instead of 6,000,000, your on again, off again relationship with the propagandist Mike Rivero, and now this global warming hoax theory.


Instead of retracting your previous lies and exaggerations about me, you make more? I never said the space landing was a hoax.

Margie Schoedinger is a woman who accused Bush of raping her. She filed formal charges. before apparently shooting herself in the head. I never said, or even implied that her story was true. I said that questions need to be asked - such as is there any evidence that she ever met with him face-to-face? I don't see why you consider this "conspiracy theory?" Out of respect for the dead woman, perhaps you could start spelling her name right.

thoughtcrimenews.com/bushrape.htm

I never asserted that 2,000,000 were killed in the holocaust. I was trying to express something in sentence of one post about how the numbers of the dead are not a way of measuring the evil of an act. It was an arbitrary number, and stupid thing for me to say. Man, talk about cherry picking.

And I'm not on-again with Mike Rivero. And even Mike Rivero sometimes posts good info. Please, stop it with the lies and exaggerations.

You see, it makes no sense to post that you now see through Rivero, but that he has it right with global warming. You are muddying the waters. You have been offering little value to this place for a long time now.


Again, a lie. What's the deal? If anyone is damaging the credibility of this site, it's you socrates. Please stop it with the exaggerations and lies. You leave me no choice but to defend myself the best I can. You've cherry-picked from my postings, then you either exaggerated our outright lied about what I said.

Look, I've made some mistakes before. I've been wrong about stuff before. I've made some stupid posts before. I let my emotions get the better of me recently and got into a bad habit of cursing in my posts. I'm sorry for that. Just stop it with the lies socrates. Please.

I don't like what you provide to this forum and am not gonna debate anything with you.


Please soc, stop it with the exaggerations and lies about what I've contributed to this forum. Let's both try to be more civil, all right?
may41970
 

Astroturfing Discussion in YouTube Video

Unread postby BlueSkyHope » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:54 am

In following Lophofo's various links (and reading some very interesting material along the way; I advise one and all to go and look at all that) I came upon a video which discusses astroturfing and says it far better than I could ever manage.

By the way, I was aware of "global warning" as a 12 year old in 1967, and there's a video out there which discusses it in 1958.

Since I was unfortunately only 3 at THAT time, I was unaware of that one! However, due to being a "military brat," I was then living in Japan not so far from nuclear fallout (Hiroshima), which probably has not helped my health any, although I don't plan to make too much of that, since it is what it is, was what it was. (This is similar to "Existentialism" in psychology and involves facing some facts not particularly appreciated, and usually "stuffed out of awareness," by one's "ego" by the way).

The reason my family was in Japan was a military assignment RELATED TO WEATHER. I know FOR A FACT that the U. S. Military has been deeply involved in a melange of spying, defense/offense enhancement, and weather modification attempts for DECADES. The details remain "classified" for these (ex)participants FOREVER, it seems, past retirement and into the grave.

I try to tell myself that the people who first tried it in the modern era (weather mod) were young draftees in WWII slogging around in rain from typhoons and seeing their fellow soldiers killed due to weather being out of human control, so they became desperate to gain some control.

Anyhow, that is my imagination of why/how they can justify it or sleep at night or look at themselves in the mirror every day.

See both of these videos (astroturfing and 1958 global warming by Frank Capra) linked in below.



BlueSkyHope
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:10 am

Lophofo's post made perfect sense. He even showed me courtesy by linking to one of my posts concerning this topic. You have this bad habit of putting down the other members.

Like I said before, I am not going to waste time debating with you on anything. It is not my job to figure out who is a paid fake from who is delusional.

Your presentation might have gone better, if you had spelled the guy's name right. Also, it's strange how yet again you have linked to a disinformation website, ThoughtCrime News.

You remind me a bit of Entropian Artifact. He too acted like he got the basic gist of this forum, that kooky links and ideas were making chemtrails look like a hoax. But anyone can see that eventually he would try to sneak those crap podcasts in here. They can see that he wrote hundreds of tinfoil posts at Chemtrail Central.

The bottom line is that you spent a lot of time at Mike Rivero's forum. Then I got dragged into it by simply doing some basic research on him.

Your posts are now subject to deletion at any time. I don't care whether you are a shallow drunk or a paid internet writer. Your time here is past.
socrates2
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:33 am

Thanks BlueSky, we posted at about the same time. I'm on dial up now but will try to check out the videos when possible.

Hey, I found a few more things on Kimberlin. He appears to have ended up at the Democratic Underground threatening TroubleInWinter with lawsuits. I am curious why no one at the Democratic Underground asked about the murder charge. Wouldn't that info had been available? We found out about it.

There are also some freedom of information and legal type documents out there. They are in my bookmarks for now. But just plug in Kimberlin's middle name {Coleman}, and they pop up. {e.g. search Brett Coleman Kimberlin}

One of the strange things about his trial was that witnesses were put under hypnosis. But after going through some tedious sections, I did see that not all the vital testimony had anything to do with hypnosis. Much witness info was available before that.

That is a whole can of worms, ain't it? It looks like daycare peiople were put away unjustly based on such type of testimony. Kimberlin has been manipulating things like this. I am shocked about this. I am now disgusted with both RawStory and BradBlog.

I am thinking of cointelpro. Bad people infiltrate peace movements and corrupt them from within. Or Perhaps Kimberlin was the main force behind those two? Anyway, people will see that Kimberlin is associated with those two popular websites. Brett Kimberlin is the personification of the strawman. Brad Friedman is a gatekeeper, imho.

I did find references to Department of Defense insignia and explosives and/or their components seen in Kimberlin's possession.

Nothing, however, seems to be available on the murder charge.

But there is enough available to know this guy is bad news and shouldn't be leading any progressive movements. So, I am glad to have stopped posting at BradBlog, and I am now happy that RawStory has also come under the microscope. Larisa of RawStory has a lot of explaining to do.
socrates2
 

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