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The "Chemical Trails" Haven

tinfoil by association

Unread postby socrates » Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:25 pm

Ok, just stop it with the ad hominems, and we can see where this goes. I posted the last message before seeing ur second post. please keep it fair and clean, and I will try to do the same.
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Unread postby jazzroc {from youtube} ?? » Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:53 pm

Fair is fair socrates. I was made aware of these forums before LNL joined up, read a little around the place and found interesting posts here and there. Then he made me and others aware of having been banned for posting his one post in here, and I was flabbergasted by your behavior. One would/should expect an apology from you for all the namecalling and other **** you threw around you, completely without reason. I see you do no such thing. You are welcome to ban me from here, since this is clearly not a place for free thinking people. I expect LNL to debunk you to kingdom come on this issue (if he considers it worth wasting time on... of course). I have made him aware of the ban being "temporary lifted" .... but that does of course say it all: You WILL ban him again at the first sign of something you don't like the sound of.

I am out of here for good, but at least I am pleased my reaction resulted in LNL given a chance to get in again and debunk you.

Maybe you could explain to the other 11 members why you found the need to ban Last Name Left on top of your abusive diatripe, ending with addressing him "FU "Last Name"" ?

I am also sure it would help if you pointed out where Last Name Left was being abusive or rude or nasty or creepy or idiotic or weird or crazy or unreal or paid tool or unfair or dishonest or very rude or blatantly rude or clueless or obnoxious or been a dirtbag or a backstabber or where he used the word "chemmies" ad hominem.... especially seen in the light that the word "chemmies" is only found in YOUR VERY OWN POST, and not in LNL's. It surely deserves an explaination?

Ad hominem:
attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument. dictionary.reference.com/browse/Ad%20hominem


All of the above boldened words, starting with "FU", followed by "abusive" were your words of choice.... then you have the nerve to call LNL abusive.... maybe you now understand why you won't find too many intelligent people coming here to waste time with you?

Have a nice day.
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CLOSED-MINDED DEBUNKERS AND CRAZY BELIEVERS

Unread postby socrates » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:22 pm

The two types of people mentioned in this post's title are simply not wanted here. A debunker is gonna have to be extra nice to us "chemmies." Their debunking must be sincere. Anyone who is a nutjob "believer" is also not welcomed at this forum.


After making his last post, Tuddi decided to change his name to "Out of Here." He also changed his e-mail address to one belittling myself.


Sometimes I wonder why myself and may41970 haven't been banned yet from Chemtrail Central. We have this recent expose on "Deep Sky" and Lou Aubuchont. Lou is buddies with the moderators. Today I left Lou some questions. Haven't read his response yet, because of this mess here.

RNC / Bush / Chems

My point is, you can't expect to last for long in someone's house, if you attack the owners. On the other hand, for real people who end up here, I promise you that mi casa esta tu casa.

Just because I have been manipulated at times over the last year or two by cointelpro-like creeps, that doesn't mean that I have lost total faith in my instincts.

Entropian Artifact got banned.
His letter to me, which can be found on the wrh thread, shows that I was justified.

Viking/Brass Rat.
One might want to take a look at some of his most recent nutcase prose.
nano-illusions

Again, justifed.

I was even willing to give Last Name another chance. But his friend or sock puppet decided to be an ***.

Justified.




Socrates named this thread: "The "Chemical Trails" Haven" Heaven? Is this a religion now?


This is a common disinfo technique used against "chemmies." That we are all gullible victims of an internet hoax, that without reading about this on the internet, none of our thoughts on this topic would even exist.


I tracked the other 6 posts posted by "this last name left", and found them to be quite well construed and his argumentation is of the kind one can't just disregard as nonsense... he DOES back his thoughts and findings up with rational explanations and proof.


Again, I saw Last Name twice logged in between the time after may41970's post and when I turned off Last Name's account. While I want the atmosphere here to be full of peace, love, and understanding, and even some fun, this is not some game.

Immanuel Kant said that there are limits to the use of reason. He believed that certain topics could never be resolved through logic.

*** {example}Is there a God?

With all due respect to Rene Descartes, the answer to this question has all to do with faith. The astroturfers who have shown up here have been trying to brand us as nutty believers. But this is not like the question of whether there is a God or not. Chemtrails have been proven. Plenty of such evidence can be found at this website and elsewhere across the internets.

Socrates, your reaction is really strange, to say it politeley.


This reminds me of Ed Snell/Yaak, who could go from being polite to mean or vice-versa in a matter of seconds.

As to Tuddi's depiction of me being totalitarian, I will say that if someone is gonna be an *** towards me or my friends on my own turf, yeah, I am not so afraid to let the slugs know what I am thinking.
:twisted:


If you want to run forums for people to participate in, you would at least give them a chance to be heard out.


At the Democratic Underground, they allow attacks on the message and not on the messengers. Here, if anyone wants to attack the message, they best do it in the most polite, academic manner. If someone is gonna be nasty towards the operating principles of this forum, that will be seen as being an attack on all of us fighting for chemtrails awareness and will simply not be tolerated.



Chemtrails heaven... chemtrails are not kooky ..... How can one discuss these issues if it is not allowed to question the issues at all?


This person seems to be from the "right woos left" crowd.
He appears to be a paid fake, with the religion, with the semantic head games.


"Our Chemtrails, which arsed our heaven,
hollowed be thy name. Thy kingdom is in these forums of ours.
Thy will be done by banning members on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily trailing ..."


...Maybe you were just drunk or drugged or hit your head on the monitor or something... and were not totally in control of your actions.

In any case you don't seem to be ok in your head.... maybe sniffing too many chemtrails? You should cut down on that addiction boy!



At DBS, DU, and Gastro, I had Bob Marley as my avatar.
At Progressive Independent I am now Nelson Mandela.
I have been attacked quite often by the CTC trolls being called "boy."

Things like this make me think that these are the scumbags people talk about sometimes on forums, the paid fakes, the cointelpro, the crazy neocon fockers who are trying to socially engineer the internet with their mind games.

Above, those two themes have been seen before on the zany chemtrail boards. We are all stereotyped as being drugged up "chemmies" who got suckered in by a cult. They are astroturfing that we would never even know what a chemtrail is, we would never have had any of the questions we have been posing over the years if we had never logged on in the first place. They are astroturfing that we are deluded.



It looks like Epoxynous has a new friend to help him spread the word that chemtrails are kooky. This poster named "jazzroc" has been leaving the following spam post on many of the you-tube videos.

"Chemtrails" ARE SODA POP. Put them through a carbon filter for sure, and each mile of "chemtrail" will get you a crate of soda pop.
The stratosphere is stable and layered like an onion with layers of differing humidities. A "saturated" layer will NOT reabsorb the trail, which will

slowly fall and form stratus or cirrus cloud. That is what you see...
Want some soda pop? I'm nuts for soda pop! Are you?




This all begs the question.

WTF are these debunkers doing all over the internet ridiculing us if this is such a crazy hoax?

If chemtrails are so crazy, why all the attention?







Just to make it clear to the couple of other people who are members here: Last Name Left was BANNED after the post I quoted in my post.


I saw Last Name logged in twice after may41970 made his own eloquent post on this matter.. If Last Name had the time to log in, then he had the time to make a quick apology and try to fix the animosity that he himself created.






Then he made me and others aware of having been banned for posting his one post in here, and I was flabbergasted by your behavior. One would/should expect an apology from you for all the namecalling and other **** you threw around you, completely without reason.


Again, if someone comes in here and in any way tries to make the members here feel bad, then expect this:
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:




I expect LNL to debunk you to kingdom come on this issue


They need to put somewhere in the troll linguistics manual a section on the art of subtlety.

WE "GET IT." WE ARE NAIVE BASTARDS WHO ARE THE NEW KRISHNAS.
THANKS FOR CLEARING EVERYTHING UP!


Hey Tuddi, FU
:lol: :P :twisted: :lol: :lol: :D 8)
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The reek

Unread postby NatureisMad » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:06 am

Damn, there's that stench again..

How can anyone honestly, vehemently argue against the existence of this totally obvious spraying? If they took just a little time to do just a little bit of research, & MOST OF ALL, take a minute or two out from their day to look up & observe the sky, their eyes should be opened.

Anyhow, socrates/may41970, let the "debunkers" walk in & fling their crap around. We'll kick their A up & down this forum through facts, pictures, logic, reason, & common sense.

posted by socrates
This all begs the question.

WTF are these debunkers doing all over the internet ridiculing us if this is such a crazy hoax?

If chemtrails are so crazy, why all the attention?


Wham. The hammer hits the nail right on the head on this one.

It seems practical to me that if somebody comes into a forum (this internet forum, for example) wondering if this atmospheric spraying is real or not, he/she would make a conscious decision to be open-minded and actually take a look at the tons of evidence. Why would someone be so close-minded as to label themselves a "debunker" & go to battle before taking a look at both sides? Why would they waste so much of their own time?

Don't get me wrong, give & take/opposing viewpoints can be healthy in a debate over an issue.
But we are way beyond knowing this is real.
The facts are solid. The evidence is vast & speaks for itself.
Born into...& trying to survive this science fiction world
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Goodbye all, and good luck

Unread postby may41970 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:39 am

My moderator status has been revoked due to a serious disagreement between me and socrates, specifically about the handling of this thread.

This is my last post, for now - maybe ever. I no longer wish to be a member of this forum, and I would like to have my membership cancelled.

Best wishes to everyone here.

Goodbye, whether for now or forever, I don't know.

may41970
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May41970/socrates

Unread postby NatureisMad » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:33 pm

Damn.... :?
Born into...& trying to survive this science fiction world
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Re: Goodbye all, and good luck

Unread postby socrates » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:00 pm

may41970 wrote:My moderator status has been revoked due to a serious disagreement between me and socrates, specifically about the handling of this thread.

This is my last post, for now - maybe ever. I no longer wish to be a member of this forum, and I would like to have my membership cancelled.

Best wishes to everyone here.

Goodbye, whether for now or forever, I don't know.

may41970


My admin status is now gone.
You are still a moderator in spirit.

If "last name" wants back in, all I have to do is click a button.

But if he is a friend of Tuddi, how am I to trust him?
Please May41970, Tuddi sounded so much like the typical mean debunker.
And what was up with "last name's" rant against us "chemmies?"

I am not the enemy.
I thought I was looking out for all the real people
in the world who are aware of the chemtrails.
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Myself and may41970

Unread postby socrates » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:55 am

There are problems between us. But he wants to discuss this in pm's rather than post in the open.

So, all the reader has to go on is may41970's last post from above with no explanation for why he is so upset with me.

He thinks I am throwing everything away with my gutter mouth. I agree that I need to clean it up. What more can I say? Talk is cheap.



I have circumstantial proof that Tuddi is a paid operative.

Some might have noticed how certain posters show up at youtube and just post mean-spirited, closed-minded debunking.

Is jazzroc, Tuddi?

link


XZZZX333: (3 days ago)
Jazzroc is a spook!


jazzroc: (2 days ago)
XZZZX333 doesn't HAVE to do ALL sites because some ban Jazzroc directly, not wanting free debate.
There's a fine stitch-up, eh?
There has been a site which PRETENDED to be debating with me, after it had ALREADY blocked me.
Such FINE behavior.
Hypocrisy doesn't engender trust....

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Unread postby socrates » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:03 pm

So is FootSoldier/Deborah CIA, NSA, or from some astroturfing agency working for them? I'd say whomever Markos DailyKos, Hal Turner, Mike Rivero, Jay Reynolds, Lou Aubuchont, on and on work for, that is whom she reports to get her paycheck. FootSoldier is a plant. This whole thing has been scripted.

She or he is a debunker in chemmie clothes. She was somehow involved with some group called Chemtrails Over America.

home1.gte.net/quakker/documents/chemtrails_over_america.htm

screenshot

Deborah/FootSoldier is a fake!




There is a thread or two in the admin section where folks can see how myself and may41970 came back to trusting each other. We've been through a lot of ******** together. We are proof that it's always best not to walk on eggshells. It's always best to be open and honest. Fakes like Aubuchont, Jay Reynolds, Deborah/FootSoldier, Mark Steadham, et al never answer tough questions. They are on disinformation payrolls. Then when the going gets tough, they scrub, delete, and ignore. Me? I'll answer anything about anything. I know how my chemtrail ideas have developed. There is no agenda at this place other than to present the case that chemtrails are real, and that there is all this fakery on the internet. Myself and may41970 were able to patch things up because both of us are honest. We are people who will admit if we said something over the line or ridiculous. That's why folks can look through our posts and will find next to nothing too outrageous. Maybe we linked to a tinfoil page by accident. Perhaps we got some ideas wrong. But real people are always willing to consider what may be amiss with our thinking.

The fakes are all about absolutes and noise.

*** Crazy Believers
*** Closed-Minded Debunkers
*** Debuckers in Chemmie Clothes like Deborah/Foot Soldier

They have been thoroughly exposed.

We got the job done, imho.
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Re: The "Chemical Trails" Haven

Unread postby socrates » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:46 pm

Tuddi, who I replaced with the name Jazzroc from youtube?, has been confirmed as being the_last_name_left's moderator friend Trausti Hraunfjord. That guy is from Peru. Jazzroc is from Spain.

Nonetheless, I believe both of them get paid to run disinfo scripts.

One of the basic frauds the astroturfers run is the concept of the believer changing into the debunker. Look at how TLNL went from being 9/11 curious to being almost 100% behind the official story.

Jazzroc tried to sign up here, but no friggen way will I allow his disinfo on this forum. Here is more proof of the psy-op being run.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Chemtrails---my ... d-research

{note- Outlaw Journalism is a fake website, imho. I have come to believe that most domains are rigged.}

Bard of Ely wrote:...One of my friends, Andre, who runs Outlaw News - http://www.outlawjournalism.com/news/ - had said, and I agreed with him, that chemtrails were the most important issue of all and the most serious danger to life on Earth. This view is actually held by many chemtrail-believers who are sure that the elite are really trying to kill as many of us off as possible.

One topic that often crops up though, is how are the elite ensuring that they remain safe when they have to breathe the same poisoned air and eat foods from the same poisoned environment? ....


Meanwhile in Tenerife I had seen sun halos on days that there were chemtrails in the sky. The halos were clearly being caused by the whitish haze that is made as the trails spread out and form artificial cloud cover. I had read that such halos were very rare and, indeed, I had never seen any in my entire life apart from in pictures.....


Back in Tenerife I carried on corresponding with fellow chemtrail-believers and posting blogs and wrote a hubpage article on the subject. Now I have a friend who lives on the island called Tony Duncan but who posts on the Internet as JazzRoc and one day I was surprised to find that he had found my chemtrail blogs at Myspace and disagreed so much with them that he was calling me a "fool" and "deluded." He said that he was "going to fight me on this." And he did!

JazzRoc, who is a scientist and does know what he is talking about, started posting his opinions in the comments area at all chemtrail videos he could find online and very soon got a name as a "debunker" and a "paid disinformation agent." He was also being called a "CIA employee," a "shill,"and accused of "working for the government."

I knew this was madness from people who knew nothing about him at all and in fact the last job I knew he had was a community gardener - a far cry from CIA employee! JazzRoc was adamant that chemtrails didn't exist and that what we were calling such were no more than persistent contrails and were made up of water vapour. He also explained that the phenomenon has been caused by a vast increase in air traffic and that contrails like this were nothing new but had been recorded and photographed at other times in the last century.

There was no room for agreeing to disagree with him and at one point because I considered him to be very rude I blocked him from my contacts at Myspace. We also got into a heated argument at hubpages and by e-mail.

Meanwhile JazzRoc had become so infamous as a "professional debunker" that he managed to get himself banned from YouTube and was later to repeat this at the David Icke forums.

However, in the course of our argument he asked me if I realised that halos (of sun and moon) were caused by ice crystals, and also pointed out that dust and solid particles, which chemtrail-believers say are in the trails cannot create halos or rainbow effects of any type at all. Chemtrail-believers even have a new term "chembow" for colours being seen in the new artificial clouds made from the trails.

That was all it took to break the spell I was under. I knew that halos around the moon were made of ice crystals so it was obvious they were what caused the sun halos too. I knew also that solid particles cannot create halos or rainbow effects. On this island we get dust clouds from the Sahara that are known as calimas and whilst they make the sky really foggy looking they never ever have halos around the sun or moon.

I could see that somehow my belief system and association of sun halos with what I was calling chemtrails was wrong and that my belief had blinded me to logical reasoning. I had to apologise to JazzRoc and thank him for teaching me something that all my research had failed to do. I now knew that there were no threats from chemtrails because what we are seeing are contrails as the authorities have maintained all along...



What I didn't include was all the rubbish this Bard of Ely had posted before. He made a good point to post every bad chemtrail link and theory he could muster.

Now the crazy part is Isard has been talking a lot about how he sees the white halo around the sun when he is in South America. He is also turning into yet another person who has said he would post and then has disappeared. Lophofo is in transition with his comp. Right now, this forum is down to two people. I admit failure as regards to building up the place. That doesn't mean the game is over though. There will always be hope for exposure and accountability.

We are trying to figure out some things behind the scenes. We have been getting a number of visits and downloads from military ip's. The million dollar question is whether these are people web surfing during their lunch breaks or whether there is information on this forum which completely outs treasonous fockers. I am going with the latter.

I will never give up. It would only take a few real people to get us back on the road to success. But if the good lurkers want to continue to be wimps, then they will have no right to complain as the world around them continues to get raped.
Nobody - I mean nobody - pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini
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