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Steven Hertzberg Needs to be Investigated for Fraud

manufactured grassroots, disinfo, and insidious marketing

integrity?

Unread postby drewterry » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:47 am

Hey -

socrates2 wrote:If you can point out where I questioned your integrity, I'll throw in an edit- not change what I wrote, but direct folks to this thread, explain that I was wrong.


I do not recall the question? I was probably not at all clear in what I wrote so I apologize. I have no questions to resolve about my integrity. I thought it was pretty funny that you thought I was an 'astroturfer' for the mayan calendar. That really cracks me up now that I think about it, because the reason I started posting on the forum in the first place was to post the Evolution of Consciousness thread. In fact, I have never posted to any other forums except a psyorg and a law question and answer type thing.

The anonymity is what I find to be like a big black hole into nothingness. If one is not careful to stay just close enough to this side of the reality envelope it can be disorienting, because you don't really know who is interacting with you. As you saw at B4N it could be a whole bunch of the same people and most people have no idea how many personallities can all be maintained by one or a few people. I did not want to use a screen name because that would accomplish nothing in the way of truth shining light anywhere but right back into my eyes.

I finally realized the only real reason privacy is such a big deal anywhere, not just on the internet but our society the USA, is because we are taught to regard the "right to privacy" as one of the sacred treasures of our "life. liberty and pledge of lifetime allegiance" citizen status. Who is it that really needs privacy and the rights appurtaning thereto to be absolute and inviolate? Only those with something to hide.

We don't have anything to hide, yet everyone is afraid of using their real names. Identity theft? Totally a media-maintained psychological scare tactic to keep tappping that fear of theiving identites outbreak over and over again, plus to keep reassuring the people by reporting the theft of identities that the right to privacy is always under attack and must be guarded even move vigilantly than the identity the theives want to steal.

They get us to protect the rights that actually benefit them the most. Credit card theft? $50 max liability and the card companies typically do not charge it. There are the horror stories about having identity stolen and for those it happens to I know it is hell. But there a much better chance that persons identity was tucked into the waiter or busboy or the guy taking the trash out of the restaurants. Hackers are not out there going from house to house over the internet stealing peoples private information. If they were, either the $50 deductible would be higher or we would not be using credit cards on the internet. It costs the companies far more than it costs any individual, so if they are willing to expense it this way then it cannot be that bad.

We are made to think identity matters to us, but theft of identity is about as likely to happen to most people as getting hit by a bus. To no one who really has nothing to hide. And that is not to suggest I am the Orwellian introverted goodygoodytwoshoes that says "chip me and blip me day and night" while telling everyone there is "nothing to fear if they have nothing to hide" 1984'ish type mindwarped sensibility. Meanwhile, we are not being our self online in dealing with people because we are always behind a mask, a projected self, an "other" that cannot by the true self unless it is by the true name self-expressed. Otherwise, the mask affects how we express our self, for better or worse, but ultimately not as real as real is in real life interactions? They have repercussions and consequences and judgements and blame and all the other psycotherapeutical type indigestion I will save for a time other than now.

I believe in A Right to Privacy for all people everywhere. In this I am differentiating between 1) who "fights for the rights; and 2) who actually benefits from the 'good fight long fought well.'

As well rest assured, awareness of concerns I have I expect to express directly to the person(s) involved; of what I am yet to be self-aware are those shadows we are here yet to explore. As it may appear to be otherwise that my awareness seems to be compromised, like awake in the light when the day is too dark, a madness to the methods of mind in time to the flow of intuitive know not until then is the need now and the when is need then.

Be well to take care, Drew.
drewterry
 

Unread postby Don Smith » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:21 am

This "individual" identity can be a mile wide and an inch deep.
Consider the cultural ideals created by this culture, the lone man of action, the "hero" asserting power by the force of will and righteousness, the savior who leads the way to a ,(usually violent), resolution of the problem of the ill-used, the downtrodden, the weak.
Rambo and Big Duke Wayne are the archetypes we are focussed upon.
There are very few images of collective, cooperative action by groups of people sharing a common goal. The organization of labor at horrific cost to the workers in the past is given lip service on "Labor Day", (maybe), while any history of the battles fought by labor in this nation is passed over very superficially, you will search in vain for more than a quick note about labor actions in the popular history books which create the "popular wisdom" defining our history.
Child labor reform, the 40 hour week, health coverage, retirement plans, all these were gained by action and in many cases, death to those struggling for a share of the wealth they produced. This "socialist" activity did not compromise the individuals' freedom or personal integrity, rather, it lead to greater personal choice and prospects for a decent life free of the thralldom which the laborers have suffered since a class system became the norm in social organization.
Barbie and Ken might be Karl Marx' target, were he alive today.
Don Smith
 

On Privacy

Unread postby may41970 » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:00 am

drewterry writes:

I finally realized the only real reason privacy is such a big deal anywhere, not just on the internet but our society the USA, is because we are taught to regard the "right to privacy" as one of the sacred treasures of our "life. liberty and pledge of lifetime allegiance" citizen status. Who is it that really needs privacy and the rights appurtaning thereto to be absolute and inviolate? Only those with something to hide.

(bolds are mine)

Oh boy, do I ever disagree with that idea, Drew. I disagree with that idea so vehemently; so passionately, that I wouldn't even know where to start. In fact I don't even want to start. Some few truths, imo, are so self-evident that they don't need to be debated.

may
may41970
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:02 am

wow- I really don't understand banta, yoyos, or now even drewterry. At first, they are like wtf- navari- steven hertzberg- obeylittle- what happened. let's figure this out.

But before you know it, they are so off the point, or they are gone from the point, or they are saying what is the point.

I was just saying I could go back to where I questioned Drewterry's integrity originally for deleting tons of his posts. that I could throw in an edit so readers there could see I might have changed my mind.

And i don't understand what is up with the pretentious words. This last post of his obviously wasn't the pure jibberish that he wrote before to "Navari." Yet it does border on the jibberish. It definitely has nothing to do with steven hertzberg. trying not to be rude, but it bordered on being spam.

This is me right here. This is me writing letters on the internet in a forum. There is a difference between speaking on the phone, in person, in writing, but we are still the same person. All this talk of putting up fronts, wearing masks, being on guard, etc. seems to be a misdirection, the classic bait and switch.

The only difference between me here and me writing letters to friends, is that here I have all these neat toys like youtube embedding, or copy and pasting, bold letters, fonts, colours if I wanted.

But that's what the spooks do. They throw in all these different colours, fonts, italics, it's like why can't they just let their words and arguments tell the story?

This is me. Anyone who has plodded through my efforts knows this is me, that I try to be myself, but also don't think of this as some kind of game. I try to have fun. we all should in a way. but also like Don has shown, there is a struggle, and it is real.

It's not our names or anything like that which matter. It's about honesty in general. It's about wtf we are on about. If we can't be consistent, honest, and approachable, then what is the point?

Maybe this public forum is a bad idea.
Real people are starting to piss me off by not showing up. It's expected that paid fakes and trolls are gonna arrive. But for any of you real lurkers out there not to help out, well, I can't see ya, but I sure am disappointed in ya, especially if you have experience writing at forums.

I have always tried to stick up for the real people on the internet when i can. This Hertzberg story isn't that tough to figure out. Same with chemtrails. I guess I am saying I would rather have a few real friends on the internet like Don and May then to waste time with anyone who doesn't debate or interact fairly.

Everything is not an enigma!
socrates2
 

Hertzberg.Org- StevenX3 Has Direct Ties To The Military

Unread postby socrates » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:51 am

There is a place called the wayback machine. After Steven Hertzberg was exposed as "Navari," he decided to delete hertzberg.org. But thanks to this internet archiving place, here is the proof that Hertzberg could possibly be a spook!

Here is what is left. It appears that he did a bit of scrubbing, because much seems to be blank or repetitive.

web.archive.org/web/*/http://hertzberg.org



web.archive.org/web/20070415064953/http://www.hertzberg.org

Biography

I've invested 16 years in engineering design, technical program management, information systems development, domestic and international new business development, strategic marketing, new venture engineering and private capital acquisition.

Previously, I was the Managing Director (California) for an information technology and enterprise integration consultancy based in Toronto, Canada. My bigger clients included Handspring and Roxio (an Adaptec company).

During the previous 12 year period, while dividing residences between California and Australia, I participated in the management teams of numerous new ventures (contributing to an IPO). In addition, I founded and successfully developed my own ventures in the automotive accessories, industrial food equipment, information technology, television and direct marketing industries.

I spent my early career as a civilian within the US Department of Defense. At a really young age the U.S. Army made me the Test Director for a large and visible development program, then they gave me the Army's Civilian Special Act Award for my work.

I was born in Los Angeles, California and have one daughter. I received my Bachelor of Science degree in Aerospace Engineering from Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana.



Selected Experience

eCommerce

Business Development Director - California, Cyberplex, Inc.
Strategic Business Development, MyPersonal.com.
Strategic Business Development Director, Netprospect.com.
Marketing & Sales Director, CyberCapital.
Business Development Director, Australian Medical Network.

Commercial

Managing Director, DRTV Down Under.
International Sales Director, FoodPrep Corp.
Manufacturing & Product Development Director, Zipper Project, Inc.

Government

Aircrew Systems Project Manager, US Naval Air Systems Command, Washington, DC.
APACHE Helicopter Project Manager & Test Director, US Army Aviations Systems Command.

Social

Election Science Institute (ESI)
A non-profit, non-partisan scientific organization based in San Francisco and founded in 2002 under the name Votewatch. ESI monitors public elections in the U.S. to identify voting anomalies which impact election results, and works with election officials to help them improve voting and election systems.
Full Spectrum Liberty
A global collaboration to develop a system of liberty so pervasive, so ingrained into the psyche of each individual, that no government, commercial entity or other person may compromise it.



Come on, Mr. Hertzberg. Be like Aaron Russo and tell these fockers that you won't do what they tell you. You have a choice. Go down in history as being some insidious troll who also had a "prestigious" job whitewashing election fraud, or cross over into the light and start whistleblowing. This is a second chance for you. The dark side route is over. You could be a hero if you come clean. Move to Ireland, whatever, but blow the whistle on these fascists, if you at all believe in some idea of a "full spectrum liberty." Think about it.
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socrates
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Location: Massachusetts

I Just Posted at Bob Fitrakis' Blog

Unread postby socrates » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:38 pm

I posted the following, but as a newbie, the post will be delayed until the webmaster approves it.

Will The GOP Election Theft Machine Do It Again In 2008?
Hi Bob,

I'm a long time reader of your reporting, first time posting, and a big fan of your work. I'm not trying to hijack your blogpost, but I personally have been somewhat in the middle of this Steven Hertzberg situation. I am not out for revenge against him, but I am curious about his internet activities. He was a prolific poster up until recently at a nutjob website called breakfornews.com. This is a convoluted story for a newbie, and I'm not trying to wear you out. But for someone who is supposed to be non-partisan, I find it funny how Steven astroturfed for Damshroder, most recently for Ron Paul, and how he minimized the 2004 Ohio exit polls.

Also, if one looks at his activities at the website just named{BFN}, one will be scratching their head, wondering if he might be part of an astroturfing company. I feel that I have a good sense of what happened, and how he was outed. Here are a few links to my forum which might help anyone at all interested in this development. While I did inform "John aka sluggo" of this story and had one email correspondence with Bev Harris, I have disassociated myself from supporting their camp- because Bev sold "clinton cigars" back in 1999, and I am also unsure of the full story of bbv.org, the fund raising aspect, etc.. I won't throw her completely under the bus based on the HBO movie and other info that seems good, but I have completely disassociated myself from "sluggo."

This is convoluted, but to all interested, I hope it helps.

Proof that Hertzberg was "Navari" at BreakForNews.com.
allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=972#972]

Big thread on Hertzberg as "Navari" and on the ESI aspect, etc..
allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=78&start=0


Thanks for your time and consideration,
"a nobody from Massachusetts" M.A., M.Ed.

{p.s.- Please don't forget about the chemical trails. Peace.}
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 7:58 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Thinking Thoughts Unthought

Unread postby drewterry » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:32 am

What do you want to know that I have not tried to explain to the extent that I was involved?

socrates2 wrote:what happened. let's figure this out.

But before you know it, they are so off the point, or they are gone from the point, or they are saying what is the point.


Yeah, sorry about going off the point. I was not aware of a point other than the points made in posting. I do feel it is important to ask "what is the point?"

Sometimes asking about the point is just to know what the point is; if there is one, what is it; and if not, why not?

The point being here the question what is the point of not having a point if there exists the possibility of no point except the officially or covertly sanctioned point(s) or as agreed and so indicated, the evident point relative and consistent with the point of the thread.

Now here is a point for me to clarify as a point I missed completely the first time so I will try again, starting with the first comment:

Socrates2 wrote:If you can point out where I questioned your integrity, I'll throw in an edit- not change what I wrote, but direct folks to this thread, explain that I was wrong.

I was confused by the question because I did not recall the point where I may have thought you questioned my integrity.

I do appreciate the courtesy of the offer you extended; I could not accept your offer because I did not fully comprehend what you offered to do for me. To agree to an offer I do not understand is not fair to you; what if I agree to do something I am incapable of doing?

drewterry wrote:I do not recall the question? I was probably not at all clear in what I wrote so I apologize. I have no questions to resolve about my integrity. I thought it was pretty funny that you thought I was an 'astroturfer' for the mayan calendar. That really cracks me up now that I think about it, because the reason I started posting on the forum in the first place was to post the Evolution of Consciousness thread. In fact, I have never posted to any other forums except a psyorg and a law question and answer type thing.


Ultimately, I failed to thank you for the generosity of your offer, and I apologize.

I am curious to understand what I said that upset you?

I was just saying I could go back to where I questioned Drewterry's integrity originally for deleting tons of his posts. that I could throw in an edit so readers there could see I might have changed my mind.


Seriously, I would like to understand to help myself avoid similar situations in the future, not necessarily avoid the situation here (which I would, of course, but that would be presumptious of me given it is not my forum and I am not a member). Nevertheless, I did not intend to upset, disrespect, or engage in behavior resembling

All this talk of putting up fronts, wearing masks, being on guard, etc. seems to be a misdirection, the classic bait and switch.


Could you please help me to understand how what I wrote about privacy is a misdirection or 'bait and switch' in the way you perceived it?

I thought what I wrote about privacy was general, not directed at anyone, and not intended for anyone to take personally. If I offended you of the forum in any way, I apologize.

Any suggestions or ideas to help me understand what I am missing? I would be very grateful.

My impression of what I wrote about privacy is what I feel and how I think about privacy and the internet after experiences similar in some ways to what I thought seemed to be happening between here and B4N forum with navari.

How you feel about what I write is out of my control (except if I intend to cause you to feel a certain feeling). I have no control except for the words I use and the intent I meant. When intent and meant contradict the other is where the my unintended missed expresssion of intention is not aligned with my meant.

In general, my primary concern is to be sure what I write is not to be misunderstood, or mis-directed at anyone personally - at least that was my intention in using the words I used. I could be misunderstanding what you mean or simply making this point clear as mud about what I wanted to say. Which is, again, not directed at anyone and entirely my fault due to how I wrote what I did (regardless of intent what matters is how it was perceived).

If I was concerned only with intent, and not with unintended consequences, I would be denying my contribution to the 'unintended mis-intention by mis-perceived perception' paradox and deceiving myself about my denied contribution.

I have a question: what expectations are there re: navari fiasco?

Second question: are the expectations realistic, 50/50, or idealised hopes we wish would come true?

I can answer for myself, for the record, as how I personally feel, which is that I have no expectations of anything happening with hertzberg, or Fintan, or anything related to it.

Somehow I found the posts here about hertzberg and when I saw my name mentioned I decided to offer what I knew to help however I could. I did not expect anything from what I posted here at all. I was thankful the post was appreciated and decided to offer more, as best I could, and expressing myself through writing what I write as however I feel while the keys pressed flowing like stop and go traffic. I am aware of my tendency towards gibberish when I really let flow the words that are not self-sanitized or otherwise abridged in mind. I identified what I intentionally wrote as gibberish in the extreme for the reasons I gave.

All the thoughts I think I thunk not to think are thoughts I never thought to think, or thought not to think, about thinking, or about thoughts I never thought not to be not thought about, especially in thinking about thoughts thought not to think about.

Think about it.

Thanks.
drewterry
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:29 am

Hiya Drew,

Ok, sorry if I was an ass. I am also someone who can be tough to read until people get a feel for my personality. So, if you like having fun with the words andd don't do it maliciously, which you say you don't, unless it it for a bully like "Navari," then it's all good. We do need to accept each other for who we are. I should appreciate you taking the time to try to help out.

I haven't too much time now but will try to rattle off a post worth reading.

I checked the big Hertzberg thread again last night and noticed tons of broken links. So I am a bit pissed off about that. Now I will have to run through it again, tidy that thing up.

Let's see if I have this correct. One of my goals is to be able to present things in a way so anybody can figure out the story. The bottom line is we all just want the truth. Please correct anything if I am off-base.

*** Navari pissed you off with his forum bully ways. That is fact. He did it to me, you, and others.
*** He threatened you, in a way that if you were in his presence, he would have physically assaulted you.
*** You revealed his real name on that thread. Based on his shilling for RonPaulonline, and with the name you provided, obeylittle went to the whois and found out that Navari is Steven Hertzberg of the Election Science Institute. Then "Kathy," instead of just deleting that info and whatever else might have broken the forum rules, she deleted the whole friggin thing. That only got a bunch of us more curious. I am a lurker type at a few forums. I was lucky enough to see your fight going on with Navari in close to real time.
*** Then Kathy and Fintan had that fake fight, etc..
*** During which Navari went to work scrubbing and pruning his activities on the internet, an action which also further raised our curiousities.

I just can't deal with some of your writings, like the last bit. Thinking, thunking, all that thought stuff, etc.. If you could try to tone that down a bit, it would be appreciated. Maybe if we knew each other well, then I would understand your humour. But to a lot of us, it just bogs us down.

One of the goals of the internet fakes is to break us apart as a collective. They do not want us making ties. They want to control the flow of info. They want to control our emotions, etc..

What is the Point?
Steven Hertzberg of ESI made it seem like there were only random anomalies with the 2004 Ohio vote cote. This contradicts what Professor Freeman and others have said. Perhaps the biggest quote I found from Navari was from his diary at DemocraticUnderground, where he was promoting the Repuglican Damshroder. That is a conflict of interest. BreakForNews is a nutjob place. It is simply bizarro world to see that Steven Hertzberg of ESI has been a prolific poster there. Then if one gets into the specifics, it is simply astounding what he was up to. You put up a few links which show this. What I am interested in is your opinion on wtf do you think he was trying to do. Was he astroturfing? Do you think he was trying to brainwash or creat some kind of cult-like grouping.

I guess I was just crying out to the world, still am in a way, that "Look over there- Steven Hertzberg was a prolific poster at a nutjob website in which the webmaster has claimed for example to have decoded an alien language. I guess I am saying this is too much for one person to figure out. I would see yoyos and Banta asking the same questions of wow, wtf, hertzberg, navari, election fraud, fakery, what does it all mean. And we just want real people with real thoughts on this. Social engineering is wrong. Mendacity, duplicity, all the big words I can't see to pull out of my tired skull right now, these words- we are sick of the lies and election fraud, the charred Iraqi babies, the lack of impeachment and investigation of war crimes. We are sick of the fascism.

I'm not looking to chat about the Mayan calendar or global warming, nothing personal. The thing about the mayan stuff is that it I have seen it used in tinfoil ways- the end of the earth stuff, kind of sounding like the rapture stuff.

The bottom line for me is we need the election fraud cleaned up yesterday. There is no reason why we can't go to paper ballots. We spend all this money on death and war and lies and whatnot, my patience does wear thin at times, and I do lose my temper, not often, but when I do, as seen in the recent BFN thread, it is raw and real. It is not violent, as I wouldn't hurt a fly, but as regards to ideas and thinking, I can be a bit like Navari. But unlike Navari, I do try to see the other side's thoughts, give them the benefit of the doubt. My achilles heel is when I feel that people are playing mind games with me. Not saying you are. I am saying Navari was. I am saying based on Navari's ways, I am curious about Steven Hertzberg's ways. That is why I feel he needs to be investigated. Fintan Dunne? I do not think he is for real. I do not think he is a factor in life. Steven Hertzberg, on the otherhand, has been right in the middle in a prominent position in the election reform topic, in real life. I just don't want this story to slide, get swept under the carpet. I am not looking to get the man thrown in court. I am just looking for the truth. I want to know wtf he has been up to on the internet. I want to know wtf he was up to with ESI and the election fraud. There is much more to this story. That Ormond (Dan Butler?) guy, etc., how they both seem to be Republican operatives. Sorry I got to cut this short, sorry if I have written anything that was tough to understand-- it's like that dude Immanuel Kant. One professor once said that there are people who can explain what Kant meant much better than Kant ever could. Hope that makes sense. This guy may41970, at this forum, he has a way of saying things very plain, with a minimum of words. Dudes like us, we tend to get a bit wordy. It doesn't mean we are necessarily out to confuse or obfuscate, perhaps we are just trying to get out big ideas to the masses, yet at the same time we are mere mortals like everyone else. No person is an island, we are all in this together, etc..

Yikes, I have more to write but am out of time. will get back to this. I don't even have time to proofread. Take it easy.

Peace all.
socrates2
 

Unread postby drewterry » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:55 pm

Ok, sorry if I was an ass. I am also someone who can be tough to read until people get a feel for my personality. So, if you like having fun with the words andd don't do it maliciously, which you say you don't, unless it it for a bully like "Navari," then it's all good. We do need to accept each other for who we are. I should appreciate you taking the time to try to help out.

It's all good with me, I take no offense to anything from anyone for any reason. I like to have fun in everything I do, I guess I've been that way since I was a kid. I don't take anything personally, a serenity of mind which took me a long time to find. I appreciate how frustrated you are and I do know how it feels - at least for me it feels like turmoil inside ready for something to react to because the energy has to go somewhere and eventually it does, but usually at times not always the best for the ways we end up expressing ourself. I don't get drunk anymore, not for any reason other than I am 38 and its not fun anymore, but I have noticed over the years the lack of apologies I used to make after a bender.

Let's see if I have this correct. One of my goals is to be able to present things in a way so anybody can figure out the story. The bottom line is we all just want the truth. Please correct anything if I am off-base.

I want to be clear about the extent of my willingness to participate in whatever goals you have for yourself.

I am not interested in pursuing anything with navari et. al. beyond what I have offered already. All that I had to say I said, except to answer any questions or offer clarification, as noted below.

*** Navari pissed you off with his forum bully ways. That is fact. He did it to me, you, and others.

I am uncomfortable with some phrasing in the way that it characterizes anything about how I felt towards Navari. I'm not sure of the reason for the summarizing, maybe there is none.

Navari was extremely annoying but nothing that made me angry. For the most part, I ignored him. The 'wag the world' thread he would not leave it aloine and we saw what happened there. I definitely did NOT feel bullied in any way. Whatever he said or did, I just turned it around and gave it right back to him.

*** He threatened you, in a way that if you were in his presence, he would have physically assaulted you.


Way too much presumption to suggest what would have happened in person, because it was not in person. He wrote what he wrote but I did not feel threatened in the least, I thought it was hilarious. That is not to excuse what he wrote. That is to clarify that for myself I felt his words were for me of no consequence whatsoever.

The best way for me to explain what was threatening about what navari wrote is to quote the text verbatim:
drewterry wrote:
obeylittle wrote:Navari, that exchange was your personal business to handle. You are a big boy and can take care of yourself, so carry your own water, tough sounding as that may be. There is no other logical choice for me to make. Had you asked for help though, I'm certain you have received it.


navari wrote:This is not about some meaningful intellectual argument that one can respond to in an intelligent rational way, but about childish rants from an emotionally disturbed individual. I don't need anyone's assistance, nor do i need to request it, in order to participate in a calm rational debate. However, this is an entirely different matter.

But I can tell you this, if I had witnessed this happen to ANY ONE ELSE on B4N I would have stepped up to the plate and attempted to stop the outlandish behavior.

I'm extremely disappointed.

Drew, if you were ever to speak to me, or anyone else, like that in my presence, I would demolish you physically.

You would not get away with such behavior in my presence.....period.


I'm going to step away for some time and re-evaluate whether B4N continues to be a place where I wish to invest my time.


Gee, thanks DAD! Can I go to my room now?

That sounds awfully like FULL SPECTRUM DOMINANCE to me...what happened to opposing DOMINANCE for LIBERTY?

But do you really? Promise you want to get physical?

Don't get me all worked up for nothing now...I get really upset when I am intentionally deceived.

But to be honest I could really use a good ass kicking, believe me!

Since I quit freestyle kickboxing I really miss those all day asskicking marathons sometimes. It's been three years now since I last had to get any stitches and I haven't knocked a tooth out since last century.

So this is Great - I can't wait!

Win the $1 million dollar bet so you can afford to fly here and ring my doorbell.

I don't hide my identity and I have no motive; can you say the same?

Way to go big boy!

Threaten me, whine, kick, scream, pout and punch the wall til you are blue in the face.

You want to scare someone?

Go look in the mirror.

And let me reassure you, Mr. Steven Hertzberg

I AM LAUGHING MY FUCKING ASS OFF.

_________________
Nothing that makes sense to NAVARI counts;
NAVARI counts nothing that makes sense.


*** You revealed his real name on that thread. Based on his shilling for RonPaulonline, and with the name you provided,
I confirmed his name in my post but obeylittle already had his name. The confirmation was the reassurance he took to decide to post what he did.

obeylittle went to the whois and found out that Navari is Steven Hertzberg of the Election Science Institute. Then "Kathy," instead of just deleting that info and whatever else might have broken the forum rules, she deleted the whole friggin thing. That only got a bunch of us more curious. I am a lurker type at a few forums. I was lucky enough to see your fight going on with Navari in close to real time.
*** Then Kathy and Fintan had that fake fight, etc..
*** During which Navari went to work scrubbing and pruning his activities on the internet, an action which also further raised our curiousities.

I do not know anything firsthand about what you wrote here, so not to agree or disagree with it.

I do not know how obeylittle put together what he did. We assume the fight was fake, but then again, it is all fake anyway.

So what is the point?

None for me, thanks.

I guess I was just crying out to the world, still am in a way, that "Look over there- Steven Hertzberg was a prolific poster at a nutjob website in which the webmaster has claimed for example to have decoded an alien language. I guess I am saying this is too much for one person to figure out. I would see yoyos and Banta asking the same questions of wow, wtf, hertzberg, navari, election fraud, fakery, what does it all mean. And we just want real people with real thoughts on this. Social engineering is wrong. Mendacity, duplicity, all the big words I can't see to pull out of my tired skull right now, these words- we are sick of the lies and election fraud, the charred Iraqi babies, the lack of impeachment and investigation of war crimes. We are sick of the fascism.

I just don't have the time or reason to care about any of it. No one else cares, and compared to the corruption and skullduggery much bigger than this little fish there is no chance in hell anyone will ever pay attention to navari to expose anything. He is a guppy swimming in a sea of psyops big game fishing! Seriously, the economy is melting down along with the dollar as we speak, in fact I am pretty sure the dollar will not exist by the end of the year. Foreclosures are in nosebleed territory and Wall Street is in full blown panic - none of which is reported by MSM but what else is new?

I'm not looking to chat about the Mayan calendar or global warming, nothing personal. The thing about the mayan stuff is that it I have seen it used in tinfoil ways- the end of the earth stuff, kind of sounding like the rapture stuff.

I am not interested in chatting about the Mayan calendar either. I solved it. Done. I know it works, hell I correlated the planetary orbits that we know today with what they counted and it works to the day. Exactly.

I am not here to convince anyone of anything. I gave up on that a long time ago. Besides, are you interested in exploring consciousness from a new perspective, even temporarily? If not, then the exploration is limited. Confirmation bias is allowing information that agrees with what you want to believe to be percieved in a way that supports the belief while simultaneously filtering out information that contradicts those same beliefs.

There is nothing to do except to do for yourself what you feel is right for you. That is all any of us can ever do. We get frustrated when our beliefs contradict what we know but do not want to acknowledge due to the clash with beliefs. Beliefs are the bedrock of our self in the sense that the older the belief the more fundamental the belief is to who we feel we are and what the world is all about, with or without us in it.

For instance, my mom always said my dad was a world-class liar but she held herself to be a patron saint that never lied about anything. For most of my life this made me extremely angry and I never knew 'what' it was that made me angry. I just knew when I got angry a lot of times it had something to do with her, but I did not make any connection. What I realized was that my mom was even more of a world class liar than my father, and she was better at it. Plus, she worked hard at seeming like a saint to me and my brothers because she needed that image we had of her in order for her to feel good about herself - despite her denial about her self-deception in how she was lying about all of it.

That was my conflict with belief; I believed my mom was a saint, and that was not the picture I got from reality. The anger and frustration I felt was due to the belief I held (mom=saint) clashed with her behavior (mom=liar) but I could not acknowledge her behavior for what it was because she made sure we reflected back to her image of herself as saint in the eyes of her kids. To accept that she was a liar worse than my father was the most difficult issue I have dealt with because of all the beliefs that are built for a kid on top of the defining image of mom or dad. When that belief is trashed there is a huge hole, a void in belief that is literally like having the rug ripped out from under your image of self. The stuff of mental breakdowns if it persists for a long time. That is why denial is so critical to our daily functioning, because if most people admitted the truth about what they know they would break down from trying to deal with the implications. They can't and they know it so they unconsciously prevent it from happening in the first place. Psycho self defense or something.

The bottom line for me is we need the election fraud cleaned up yesterday. There is no reason why we can't go to paper ballots.

One last thing: elections don't matter. They have never mattered for anything other than putting on a show for the horse race drama that is the nailbiter election night.

That's all I have to confound your sensibilities. I appreciate the opportunity to communicate and I wish you the very best of luck in whatever the future holds for you. I know this forum is not for me, so I will spare us all the difficulties that would result and instead bid you all a fine farewell.

Adios!

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drewterry
 

Unread postby socrates2 » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Hey Drew, thanks for everything. You might not realize it, but yourself and ObeyLittle might have changed the course of history. Perhaps there will never be another mickey mouse "election reform" group come on the scene and hoodwink us. You and actually good, old Sluggo have inspired me to fix the Hertzberg thread. It's been a chore, and I still have work to do on it, but things are much more clearer now. The Hertzberg thread is being updated, links are being fixed. Some of the stuff put up on this thread hit the spot and confirmed o'plenty.

The reason I threw things up so fast in the first place was because I was afraid that this story would become buried. You really helped out in a big way. We might not agree on global warming. We might not have a lot in common. But we did what we had to do when our paths crossed.

Thanks again and peace. Good luck and best wishes.
socrates2
 

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