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Steven Hertzberg Needs to be Investigated for Fraud

manufactured grassroots, disinfo, and insidious marketing

Hertzberg- Page One Looking Good

Unread postby socrates » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:17 am

That took me hours, but it looks fairly solid now, I must say.

This one's for you stevenstevensteven.
The chemical trails are making things worse.
Yes, chemtrails are real. They have been proven so at this forum and
at other places. The tinfoil astroturfing doesn't change the truth.
It just reflects the obfuscating, secrecy and the not creeping but evident fascism.
Fakes like "Navari" need to grow up and blow the whistle.
There's more to life than money, such as peace and happiness.

Nathan Thurm interviewed by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
User avatar
Posts: 1559
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 7:58 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Fintan Dunne, Protagonist

Unread postby drewterry » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:05 am

Hey, I forgot about the name Fintan Dunne was used by this author in a spy/mystery novel.

I'm sure it is a popular name in the Irish heritage.

For what it is worth...

Author Peter Quinn does things the old-fashioned way

By Larry McShane | Associated Press |
Story updated at 7:34 PM on Monday, October 2, 2006

{on edit- it has been determined that drewterry is a troll who has been spamming this thread.
subsequently I have been going though his posts to see what can be simply deleted.

And I also noticed this was recently posted on YouTube - have not looked for it, just leaving it here for anyone else to do with what they will, or won't.


{on edit-I deleted the 9/11 spam links that drewterry left. He was referring to this:


end of edit.}

Now imagine if we found out something like "navari" was the secret name Hitler was used to calling himself, or something as weirdly similar synchronicity-like, as it were...

Unread postby socrates2 » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:37 pm

I've got some theories about internet names. Jerry Fletcher has an odd counterpart. Jim Phelps. Wayne Hall. If you don't know the last two, you're not missing much. It doesn't even matter if Fintan Dunne has some amazing insights and good posts in his history. He calls all these people fakes, and he has no proof. He says he decoded an alien language. He wrote for some ultra-tinfoil joint named rumour mill news.

The thing above doesn't say when Fintan was interviewed by Alex Jones. That must have happened years ago. Maybe it is someone astroturfing for Alex Jones. I finally watched some of Alex. He's quite loud. I wouldn't mind seeing him and Geraldo go on celebrity boxing.

Funny thing about the name Navari. Steven Hertzberg was writing at a news group with his real name and was using navari.com as an address. Maybe obeylittle figured it out from the full spectrum liberty part. That could take a person to the server address for fullspectrumliberty.com. Then it's easy to see the other websites on the server, including pathocrat.com. From that one, Hertzberg was still being listed as the registrar.

Obeylittle is a hero. He may be an idiot as regards to the chemtrails, but that was damn good work by him.

Hi guys!

Unread postby truthseeker » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:36 pm

{on edit: for one of my email addresses my name is Truth Seeker. I do not have 19 personalities and do not use sock puppets. I have accomplished a lot with this website and believe it speaks for itself as regards to my credibility.}

Just wanted to drop in and say "hi"!

Ran across your website earlier today, Socrates, and have been reading threads for the past hour or so. I was intending to weigh in on the topic of Drew Terry, but see now that Drew has taken care of that himself. :D Among the many 'pretenders' out there on the boards, I know Drew to be who he claims to be.

Admirable work you're doing, Soc. Not sure I have anything of value for you, except as a close participant in the events herein referenced and a few Skype chats with Steve Hertzberg during the 'full spectrum liberty' days.

I was an avid 'reader' of BFN, but only an occasional poster. Too many spooks for my taste, although the spectrum of topics covered was of interest to me.

Lately I've been amusing myself at the machinations being kicked into motion in the area of money and finance. These fuckers play rough, and its getting ugly! :lol:

Have fun! And best of luck in your new venture! :) :) :)

btw, in deference to Drew, my name is Eric Hanson

style & grace

Unread postby drewterry » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:08 pm

Thanks, Eric - your true grace and real class never goes out of style.

I assume to appreciate wholeheartedly the synchronistical journeywise intuitional energy (a.k.a. the light waves we can't see; a.k.a. the other white light) by which you tracked my dust from the cleanroom?

The energy of the 5th night seems to be ominously bearing down on the shores of wall street with all the force and fury that Calleman predicted would be the transition effecting transformation. I feel like the possibility for a truly global planetary event(s) that would be felt worldwide by everyone in one way or another can only be total failure of the entire system of payment mechanisms. The US $ currency will bear the greatest burden being the most powerful currency on the planet, as well as the epitome of capitalistic material consumption in the extreme. But in order for the entire world population to feel the effects, and for the intensity of affect to be felt according to the depths of capitalistic excesses, it has got to render the lifeblood of commerce and trade equally powerless to everyone. I imagine that an aspect of the light truth revealed will illuminate what should ideally be so painfully self-evident that there is no need to question the reasons given for the cause answered. If we moved the islands of deBait close enough to know our neighbor as our self likewise then we would be a long way to nirvana, whatever that is.... what does it matter?

Care take to be well and know talk soon we will; plenty of pie left to harvest.

Drew Terry

Unread postby may41970 » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:59 pm

drewterry says:
I assume to appreciate wholeheartedly the synchronistical journeywise intuitional energy (a.k.a. the light waves we can't see; a.k.a. the other white light) by which you tracked my dust from the cleanroom?

The energy of the 5th night seems to be ominously bearing down on the shores of wall street with all the force and fury that Calleman predicted would be the transition effecting transformation....

I see zero value in your last post, drewterry. It feels like spam. It feels like an attempt to discredit/obfuscate this thread with irrelevant tinfoil ********.

Unread postby socrates2 » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:49 pm

Thanks for the kind words truthseeker. This place was started by myself and may41970 almost a half year ago. We first connected when the netvocates story came out. Fakery is widespread on the internet. People like Dunne are figured out within a month or two, depending on how closely one looks into it. It is good to see some of us having some success by creating distance from the insidious social engineering.

I kind of agree with your sentiments, may41970. A bit of that is ok, imho, but visitors who find us and want to get to the bottom of this specific story shouldn't have to scroll through so much or get so thrown off that they click to another website. But on the other hand, I think my editing last night of page one hit the spot. I transfered some of the good stuff here to that thread also. It could just be the nature of the beast. If people aren't gonna stick through this to the end, to see what conclusions we came to as to this specific topic, then they are shallow anyways, or they get the gist or whatever.

I am not gonna turn this forum into a Steven Hertzberg on the internet museum, but I just went through one last wave of finding links and screen shots to try to wrap it up. What I would like to see is discussion on some of the specifics. But that cannot be forced.

Myself and may41970 work well together. We tend to like reading about the same things, so for example, he started a thread on Mike Rivero and the unofficial forum. A few months later, a whole big topic like that seemed to make perfect sense. Now why can't "Fintan Dunne" do the same thing with every person/group on his fakes list? It's because he is a fake, a strawman for the idea that there is fakery on the internet.

So, here goes. One last batch of links and screen shots. The Ibo-talk links aren't working for me right now, but the caches are. If the caches ever get broken, one can try the original page, or we'll just have to be thankful for the screen shots unless some computer guru can show up and retrieve anything scrubbed.

But yeah, may41970 got me interested in Mike Rivero. Now it seems with my dip into the pond of election reform information, may41970 seems to have learned about people like Bev Harris and Steven Hertzberg.

A lot of this was actually like manual labour. search engines. clicking bookmarks. Taking screen shots. changing formats of images, uploading them, copy and paste. I'll try to keep my words to a minimun and let the images do the talking.

It's pretty clear now what Steven Hertzberg is all about. :twisted:
"Navari" had his good times making fun of me being a "chemmie." His buddy "Ormond" used my natural disgust with "Navari" and "Continuity" to give up on that big chemtrail thread. "Ormond" - who is Dan Butler in real life for what it's worth. "Ormond" said he once met Cliff Carnicom who was doing freelance work on his computer. Yeah, right. They appear to be psy-ops, the real deal with that crap. So "Navari" and the other cretins might have had fun making fun of the "chemmies" way back then, but let what has been uncovered by Obeylittle and then here be a message to all the rightwing astroturfers on the internet. We know what you are up to, and we aren't buying it. By the way, for all you rightwing pigs who may lurk here, you might want to check out the chemtrails section at the top of this forum. Chemtrails have been proven as real. So "Navari" and the rest of you, the more you mess with us, the more we quickly do the troll bashing and then get right back on topic. You are losing. The real people are winning.

Thanks to Mr. Navari, who is also known as stevenstevensteven, fullspectrumliberty, Steven Hertzberg and as being a rightwing internet troll! The Director of the Election Science Institute! {evil doctor laugh}

Another Anti-American Subversives List


It should be noted that Ibo-talk was a "left-leaning" newsgroup put together by Doug Henwood of the Left Business Observer. So why was "Navari" the rightwinger hanging out at this leftist forum? Infiltration perhaps? Trying to destroy the opposition from within?

About lbo-talk

lbo-talk is a forum for the discussion of economics, politics, and culture from a broad left perspective, sponsored by Left Business Observer.

Democratic Left_ list


All the President's votes?


Here is a forum discussing that article.

Then Hertzberg responded.

This next one could mean something.
I am not equipped to do a full investigation of Hertzberg and others.
It is up to others to get that done. None of this is passing the stink test.
All I am is a gadfly, but in lowercase. 8)

FW: CAMEJO FOR GOVERNOR: Newsletter: An amazing week

-----Original Message-----
From: Tyler Snortum-Phelps [mailto:tyler at votecamejo.org]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 5:01 PM
To: Votecamejo at topica.com
Subject: CAMEJO FOR GOVERNOR: Newsletter: An amazing week


Hmmmm. To: Votecamejo at topica.com
Check out where the registrant for topica.com is located.

high numbers of blacks in prison...


Even more astroturfing has been found for Ron Paul. Wtf, this is strange.
And this is it. I feel I have done my best and that good, solid proof has
been amassed on this topic at this forum/blog. Yeehaw.
I'm done researching this internet troll.

{off topic:
Oh, by the way, the Boston Red Sox just won the World Series.
Don't hate us N.I.M. from Mile High.
We had an extra 100 million on ya to spend.
There was nothing you could do to stop the cheating.
Perhaps this wasn't too off-topic?}

Ron Paul Network
Check out the tags, ha, ....full, spectrum, liberty


Grassroots? For Ron Paul? Yeah, maybe a few disenchanted wingnuts.
Maybe a bunch of people agree with a few of his ideas, with a few of them being important.
But I smell a rat in regards to Ron Paul and astruturfers on the internet.
This focker goes beyond the Navari troll.
This is about an emerging big picture of deliberate convolution on the internet.

I'll need one more post to finish up. It feels like I am done.
But I still have some more screen shots and links to perhaps make one more decent post.
I do see the light at the end of the tunnel. Phew.
Someone had to do this. {yawning}

Unread postby socrates2 » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:29 am

I am in agreement with may41970. I hope I didn't sound different from this above. I am so tired. It's 1:30 am here.

Yeah, the topic is steven hertzberg/Navari. I put in some major hours to make sure this story didn't get buried. Hey may41970, you think Olbermann might be interested in this. Bradblog and Fitrakis don't seem to care.

And to you Navari, you got away with nothing. All that scrubbing and cleaning means that many more people are now looking even more closely into your bizarre, internet activities. They are taking renewed looks at your rightwing ideas and are wondering wtf is the REAL STORY behind conservative astroturfing, election fraud, and the Election Science Institute.


Unread postby may41970 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:36 am

soc says:
I put in some major hours to make sure this story didn't get buried. Hey may41970, you think Olbermann might be interested in this. Bradblog and Fitrakis don't seem to care.

I'm at the point where I no longer hold false expectations for those one-in-a-million elites (olbermann included) that have the power to decide whether a particular news event is "worthy" of being told to the "masses."

Yeah, soc, this is an important story. But rather then desperately running around kowtowing to media gods like Olbermann and begging them to listen to us peons - I think we'd be better off trying to write up an absolutely clear, concise and interesting introduction to this event.

A simple and powerful and riveting couple paragraphs that anyone can easily read, where people can IMMEDIATELY understand what this story is about and why it's so important. If we can GRAB their attention with a good intro......then those which are interested can continue to read about it. And that's where the hours of work you've done will become invaluable.

But I've had it, soc, with begging the elite media to report a story. I don't trust anyone in the MSM. Not even Olbermann.

I think this story needs a clearer and simpler intro than what we have now. People have short attention spans and if you mention ESI, Hertzberg, Navari, and Ron Paul, Break for news and more in just a couple paragraphs, most people aren't gonna give a ****. It's overwhelming. Hell, it overwhelmed me for a long time too.

Simple and clear and REALLY INTERESTING is the ticket. Like maybe the way that Olbermann tells a story.

If only the story involved the death of someone, police brutality - or better yet a blowjob.

But this story doesn't have any of those things. So how can we intro this story to those who know nothing about it - and get them to understand how important it is?

Soc, you've done a great job of explaining what this story is about - but I don't think anybody's going to care until we write a really great, simple, clear and riveting intro. If we can do that, perhaps the story will travel under its own steam.

Last edited by may41970 on Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Finishing Touches

Unread postby socrates2 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:44 am

There's a lot still out there. Hopefully real reporters and other amateur sleuths will be able to take this eventually where it needs to go. Personally, I have hit a point where this is all morphing into information overload. I think the main points are fairly obvious.

*** Hertzberg was Navari, without a doubt.
*** Hertzberg has been whitewashing election fraud
*** Hertzberg appears to be a paid astroturfer working for rightwing agendas.
*** These agendas appear to involve social engineering, i.e. astroturfing.

To wrap this up, I will simply post with minimal commentary the rest of the links and images located.

Tons of Hertzberg posts to ibo-talk.

site:www.breakfornews.com navari

A shout out to Kate of New Hampshire:

Full Spectrum Liberty
A sock puppet? A friend?

FullSpectrumLiberty at youtube

web page services provides by plesk/swsoft
That company is located in Herndon, Virginia. Hmmm.


But if you go to the original, there doesn't seem to be any audio or mention of "Ormond" and "Fintan Dunne" from BreakForDisinfoNews. This was yet another scrub job.

Hertzberg.org via the wayback machine
Code: Select all


Zoom Info for Hertzberg

Fixing The E-Voting Mess
Advocacy groups push for electronic voting reform.
By Larry Greenemeier, InformationWeek

Hertzberg wants us to forget about paper trails and work with the electronic machine vendors.

Mrs. Panstreppon Also Concerned About This Hertzberg Person



Some final links which folks might find of interest.
I stumbled upon, forget how, onto the name of a server called "HMDNSGROUP.COM."
The reason I mention this is because I came across it during this last phase of researching.
I think dns stands for domain name server. Could hm stand for Heart Mountain?

Who Won the 10/21 GOP Debate? Ron Paul Supporters Cheating?


On the cache page, I clicked on the see all comments link.

The comments are now missing on the current page. If the cache gets buried too, at least we have these screen shots. I think it is ok to censor and delete trolling and spam. But there definitely is a problem when things seem to get scrubbed and deleted for insidious motives.

current page


[on edit- the second batch of comments seem to be back, but the first batch with the domain searches seem to have been scrubbed completely, Broken, changed, scrubbed links are the worst part of the internet. I am grateful to have finally figured out the importance of the screen shots and independent image hosting.}

original source

I am no big fan of LittleGreenFootballs. I only have heard of them from others on forums.
And it is strange who their server is. Hmdnsgroup. If that stands for heart mountain group,
then I believe we have bingo.

But back to the green footballs. I personally agree that there is some inorganic astroturfing
being done all over the internet for Ron Paul. It's like with the convolution on the major chemtrail
boards. It is right in our faces as if it is a script.

These next links concern Robert Hertzberg, who ran for mayor of Los Angeles and reeks of money and connections. He could be stevenstevensteven's twin {maybe I exaggerated, but they definitely look like brothers}. The resemblence is striking.


With this final link below, there are mostly broken links.
There is a broken link to an L.A. Times article.
The link to a Hertzberg website called BigIdeas4LA returns the following:

This account has been suspended.
Either the domain has been overused, or the reseller ran out of resources.

Another link currently gives a server not found error page.
And yet another returned the following when I recently clicked on it:


The page cannot be found

The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its
name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

And then yet another link is broken. This one reads currently as:

Not Found (404)
The file that you requested could not be found on this server. If you provided the URL, please check to ensure that it is correct. If you followed a hypermedia link, please notify the administrator of that server of this error.

Wtf is going on here?

And yes, there is even one more broken link at present.

Page Not Found

Sorry, the page you requested could not be found.

* If you are trying to reach a page from a bookmark, the page URL may have changed. Please choose a section from the navigation at the top of this page.

* If you are looking for an older news story, it may no longer be here. Free archives of stories are maintained for one week on latimes.com. To search for a story published in the past week, use the search box at the top of the home page.

* If the story is more than one week old, you should be able to find it in the LATimes archive. Searching is free, but there is a fee for downloading full text of found articles.

If you still have trouble finding what you need, please go to our customer service page.

Thank you for visiting latimes.com.

Mayor Sam scoops the Times—about itself *
by Kevin Roderick

The political blog Mayor Sam's Sister City is not anonymous any longer. Two of the ring-leaders came out of the closet in a post today, after the Times asked them to confirm or deny that they were the secret bloggers. It turns out one, as some suspected, was a top campaign operative for mayoral candidate and Villaraigosa campaign chair Bob Hertzberg. Hertzberg denied any knowledge of the connection and told the Times he probably would have stopped it if he knew. The poster who used the pseud "Mayor Sam" and who says he started the blog is Michael Higby, the Chairman and past president of the California Junior Chamber of Commerce. That's him in the pic. He Googles as a 40-year-old political and community volunteer in the Valley who is Corporate Communications Manager of Investors Management Trust, if his online resume is up to date. The more interesting name is Brian Hay, who says he was the site's "Mayor Frank." Hay was Chief Information Officer for Hertzberg's mayoral campaign and more recently has overseen Hertzberg's website BigIdeas4LA. As editor of the Hertzblog's news digest, he often promoted Mayor Sam's gossip. Today's post did not disclose any other identities, even though the blog has claimed to have four regular anonymous contributors. The early, web-only Times story by City Hall reporter Steve Hymon says that Mike Trujillo, a spokesman for Rob Reiner's school initiative, also confirmed that he had played a "key role." He is a Villaraigosa supporter who is active in the San Fernando Valley Young Democrats.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Higby posts that he intends to keep the site going, "continuing its mission of shedding light on local government." I wouldn't be surprised, however, if the bloggers get some personal and professional backlash. They didn't confine their posts to spinning issues and pursuing political agendas. They hid behind anonymity to—sometimes—insult people they have to work with if they intend to stay in the local political swirl. They also have tried to intimidate journalists. Hertzberg, too, may have some 'splaining to do. In the Times story, Hay confirmed that he was posting anonymous items while also working for Hertzberg, but he argues that it was high-minded: "A lot of times the mainstream media is under a lot of different pressures from editors, you have things that you can't do or things that would never make the L.A. Times, so we provided a location for those insiders and hacks to go and do what they like to do. The water cooler chat. That's all it is."

In an email reply this afternoon, Higby told me: "As of right now, only Brian and myself have agreed to out ourselves and leave it to all our other participants to make their own decisions as to what they wish to do." Coincidentally, Mayor Sam's Sister City just got a "web site of the month" nod in the September issue of Los Angeles magazine. From the Buzzcuts section: "For a crotchety perspective on local politics that stretches beyond the grave."

(Disclosure: I've been a target of personal insults and attempted attacks on my journalistic integrity by both Higby and Hay in their secret identities, as well as the subject of misinformation at their site. But I'm just glad to know who they aren't. When I interview City Hall aides, I prefer not to wonder if they are the one who keeps calling me "full of ****" online. Here's another reason I'm not a big fan of blogs that abuse anonymity: I've recently been having a pleasant and supportive email exchange with Hay about some issues in his life. While I didn't know that he was also the "Mayor Frank" who talks trash about me online, he did. A bit unfair, I'd say.)

* In print: In Friday's Daily News, Trujillo says he was one of several people to fill the blog's "Chief Parker" role and was involved only briefly. The story calls him an unpaid volunteer on the 2005 Villaraigosa campaign, and says a Reiner spokesman denied knowledge of the blog. Hay says in the DN story that he became active after Hertzberg lost the mayoral primary. In Friday's Times story, however, Hay says that he was active while running the Hertzberg campaign website. Hay, 29, also says that ten different bloggers have posted as Mayor Sam, Mayor Frank and Chief Parker. He argues that the loss of anonymity will be good for the site by letting its authors openly check out information at City Hall. Trujillo, 26, told the Times his stretch overlapped with the Villaraigosa campaign for mayor.
12:55 a.m. Friday
Thursday, September 1 2005


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