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ObamaDaMan wrote:19. Well, nothing personal......
With all due respect Brad, you can't blame them for moving your thread. There are too many questions with the Clint Curtis story, your affiliation with the convicted bomber Brett Kimberlin, and with your close affiliation to David Benjamin Burch. Perhaps most troubling is that your #1 blogger, John Gideon, is a bigwig with VoteTrustUSA. VoteTrustUSA is part of the Verified Voting Foundation. They are advocates for electronic machines with paper receipts. That contradicts your advocating for the removal of the electronic machines. Plus, it probably doesn't help your cause that bozosRnot4Bush is also a friend of yours. And what's up with that username of his? Does that mean that "Bozos" are for Democrats? Huh? Wow! That guy has been one of the prime tools bashing Obama the last half year or so. He has been posting with the kingpins for spreading disinfo smear on Obama, Larry Johnson of No Quarters and Cannonfire.
The same thing happened to "Fintan Dunne." I believe everything he now posts gets immediately tossed into the 9/11 dungeon. I'm not saying that this forum is a conspiracy forum either. Maybe DU can't afford to have you posting in any section other than this one? Maybe a new policy has been put in place so the things mentioned above do not tarnish this board's reputation.
22. Here's Your Proof
I'm actually more interested in your support of Bozos and why Larisa of RawStory covered up for Kimberlin. She said he was a political prisoner and how it wasn't true that he was a convicted bomber. Or maybe she'd like to retract what she wrote here years ago?
The Curtis story has been debunked by others. No need to reinvent the wheel on that one. People can decide for themselves, if they want to do the legwork.
You're denying the Obama bashing done by No Quarters, Cannonfire and your buddy Bozos?
I guess you were out of the loop for Gideon being at VoteTrustUSA just as you were for OnTheOtherhand being Mark Lindeman?
DU deserves to know the truth. Everyone deserves the truth and some closure for all the stuff that's been going on with the "electoral integrity movement."
32. It seems that Brad doesn't agree with you
If you had read my post more closely, you'd have seen that I never said that Gideon was for electronic machines with paper receipts. I simply showed that he was closely affiliated with such people. Ok, Sir, if VVF is not for those things, then what exactly are they fighting for? They are clearly not for authentic paper ballots. You yourself also appear to be for machines with paper receipts and limited audits. Now instead of people like me conjecturing, why don't you just once and for all explain what exactly you think are the solutions to our electoral problems. Other than harping on and on about exit polls and astroturfing that Bush won in 2004, I haven't really seen any statements from you clearly spelling out what the answers are to ensure our democracy is no longer in a constitutional crisis.
You appear to be for limited audits. *My answer is below.*
Brad says Gideon quit VTUSA because of their propensity to not support paper ballots. If you guys could simply answer questions sincerely instead of jumping to conclusions about messengers, perhaps this wouldn't seem like such a closed, scripted shop.
Now we find out that Stephenson was a co-founder of VTUSA. We are not talking about mickey mouse associations here. Brett Kimberlin and Brad are co-founders of Velvet Revolution. How can Brad's reputation and integrity not be linked to that of the convicted bomber?
And Brad also went on to dismiss every point I made. Why is he covering up the Larry Johnson spook campaign against Obama? Why did Larisa lie for Kimberlin? People at least have the right to know about these connections. Bozos and Brad have met in person. Bozos has been acting as a gatekeeper trollbuster for years.
Those guys were saying they had videotapes of Michelle Obama making racist comments. They have posted about Obama giving the finger to McCain at a debate. They have come up with so much crap that we could make a 500 post thread on it time permitting. Why doesn't anyone want to get to the bottom of this one while it's still fresh? Are we meant to wait until all the scrubbing and pruning takes place?
Are you aware of Larry Johnson, Bozos, and Cannonfire with that spooky campaign gnawing at democratic principles? Do you want some links?
*The answer is hand counted paper ballots. As someone from Canada wrote, we could do it like they do, just multiply the number of workers and polling stations. How come we have all this money to waste on illegal wars, corporate swine, NASA and the rest of the military-industrial complex, and all forms of insidious government, yet we don't have the money to ensure that every vote is counted?*
23. Let's All Relax And Face The Music
I hate to use a line commonly used by freeper trolls, but is everyone who disagrees with you some sinister, secret, government agent?
I noticed someone from Oregon was supporting vote by mail and disagreeing with your vehemence against it.
Maybe the following screenshots will help clear up even more confusion.
What is NOVBM?
Notice the Illinois above the Director of NOVBM? Ben Burch is from Illinois. He was buddies with Andy Stephenson. Is there a connection between Gentry and Stephenson? Heck yeah!
Just to make things clear, NOVBM is:
The No Vote By Mail Movement
Now I find it surprising that Brad didn't know about Gideon being a bigwig with VoteTrustUSA which is part of the Verified Voting Foundation. I admit that I could have worded myself better above, that I had proof that Gideon was at the least once a bigwig with VoteTrustUSA. But then again, maybe Brad could've corrected me at the time instead of calling me a disinfo scammer.
But it gets worse.
What does one think of when they think of Andy Stephenson? Mike Vreeland? Probably not so much. They think of how he was for paper ballots. If I am mistaken for anything, I apologize. I was under the impression that Stephenson was all for the paper ballot.
Now would it come as a shock if it turned out that Stephenson co-founded VoteTrustUSA? Would that be as big a shock of learning about Brett Kimberlin?
Truth Even Unto Its Innermost Parts Judge Brandeis
31. Settle Down Francis
The # of posts one has shouldn't matter. Now you are clearly insinuating that I am a freeper troll. People can see exactly how anti-social and evasive you are being with your reactions. You need to make up your mind. Are you going to ignore me, like you implied you would with your first answer, or are you now going to go this hypocritical route of evoking authority and demanding obfuscation?
*** Your silence on Kimberlin speaks volumes. Same goes with your non-comment on that Bozos/Larry Johnson spook campaign against Obama. Whenever someone asks you decent questions you don't want to answer, you always mention Wayne Madsen. That's getting quite stale. Where did Kimberlin get all this money to throw around? Are you aware that Bozos, Johnson, and Cannonfire appear to be paid fakes? Have you seen any of that rubbish? Are you aware of Ben Burch's insidious internet presence?
*** Attacking the messenger and not the messages has never been more transparent, Sir.
*** I have an idea why you call me a scam artist. No scam artist would ever use that line, perhaps? Or let's have someone appear crazy like "Fintan Dunne" call you out for being intel influenced, then it can't possibly be true? By calling me a scam artist, insinuating that I am a freeper troll, and avoiding certain topics until you are compelled to answer, perhaps you are playing some kind of mind games? Why not just answer the questions to the best of your abilities when they are asked? This is a public forum. This isn't the Brad Friedman Show whose ultimate goals are to raise funds and gatekeep the electoral integrity movement.
You first answered that Gideon had no association with VTUSA, but then I proved otherwise. Then you answered.
These are not smears by association. These are your colleagues and close associates. Years ago Larisa Alexandrovna posted here outright lies about Kimberlin's past, even going so far as to call him a political prisoner.
There was an old thread at your place and your moderator with the strange username of Agent99 said she didn't understand the BozosRnot4Bush name. Then you came in with the bs that these were two different John Deans. Back then you couldn't even answer an easy question. Do you know that this guy you've had dinner with has been part and parcel of a spooky campaign to bash Obama? People are not stupid, Sir. It would take anyone ten minutes to start to figure that one out. That type of activity had everything to do with disrupting electoral integrity. Party Unity My Ass? And now you act dumb about the whole thing.
*** Finally, you are now directly tied to Andy Stephenson and subsequently Ben Burch with this Gideon connection. I am not pulling things out of nowhere. Your hostile responses, Sir, seem to indicate I have hit raw nerves.
Bushwa wrote:If you can stand it, given the warnings not to fly his plane, the claims of threats and the imminent testimony, it seemed to count more as a reasonable question rather than a CT. On the other hand, his wife insists that anyone who says he was "about to reveal all" is an idiot, and that he told her there was nothing to reveal.
Still, the NTSB investigation results WILL be eagerly anticipated - and not just by the "usual suspects" in the CT crowd.
Peace Patriot: Fri Jan-02-09 06:16 AM 30. Response to Original message
This thread couldn't be better Rovemaster bullshit if Rove himself were
playing all the parts. As McCamy Taylor said, in a related thread: DO NOT BE FOOLED!...
Do not be fooled. It does not matter if RAW Story has talked to someone who might once have been in federal custody. RAW Story is one of the few voices of journalistic excellence in this country. It does not matter whether the guy who sold Dan Quayle dope got railroaded. As I wrote in a recent journal, the downing of Mike Connel's plane stinks to high heaven and we should not rest until the control tower in Akron Ohio releases the tape of his final words to the tower. Did some crucial part of his control system fail or did his wings ice up? We have a right to know, and that tape will most likely tell the story. If a dirty deed was done, it was done in the College Park, Maryland airport where he took off (not Pennsylvania, where so many journalists keep reporting), a public facility that has seen its business decimated by the Bush administration's heightened regulations in the wake of 9/11 and which would be an easy target for blackmail, since granting a favor to the Bush administration might be its way to ease those regulations that are killing its business.
Also see: "COINTELPRO, Trolls and Election Reform," by WillYourVoteBeCounted ....
WAKE UP! DON'T BE DIVERTED BY THIS KIND OF BULLSHIT, slandering good people who have been working hard, in dangerous conditions, with all the odds stacked against them, to expose this critically important destruction of our right to vote and our democracy.
Understand what you are reading here. And understand what you are NOT reading here. You are NOT reading anything useful to restoring our democracy.
I am outraged by this thread--and similar activity by this same group of commenters (or is it just one?)--over the last few days. This sloppy-minded, disconnected, unctious (oh, they just want to be so helpful) innuendo and character assassination must stop.
Prepostericity: Fri Jan-02-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. The reader decides!
I'm loving the free publicity. It just shows that first they ignore you, then when that doesn't work, they smear.
Why y'all covering for a busted freeper troll named Steven Hertzberg? Why are you being emotional rather than debating like adults? Where is there even one shred of critique dealing with what has been posted? The Speedway Bomber is a fraud. He was never exonerated. He was never railroaded as a political prisoner. Why do you want to be associated with that? Why do you want to be associated with unsubstantiated, conspiracy chatter? Why do you keep letting that fake whistleblower bullshit yank your chains?
And I'm not the one who says Connell was my source and that he was frightened and ready to spill the beans.
Y'all just jealous it turned out to be such a successful and enlightening thread.
You take care now. Regards.
Fri Jan-02-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Some posters are like the corporate 'news' monopolies. Their perspective is so skewed,
and their thinking process is such a swamp of rotting vegetation, that it is difficult to suss out what they are trying to accomplish in their corpo/fascist broadcasts or newspapers. The most important thing to realize about their writing is what they DON'T say--the black holes between their paragraphs of disinformation and psyops. They don't provide you with useful information to understand what the rich and the murderous are doing to the poor and the powerless in our society and in our world. They don't inspire you or empower you or others to become active citizens and assert your right to good government. They dwell on petty, unimportant matters, cheap, often invented "scandals," and 'personalities' that they build up as celebrities or tear down as demons; they play "gotcha" games; they provide "theater" rather than discussion and in-depth debate on vital matters; and they, above all, attempt to divert you from the issues and events, and the crimes and corpo/fascist cabals, that determine your fate, and the fates of your children and generations to come.
I would urge readers of this thread to peer into those black holes of missing information and disinformation (diversion), and try to see what ISN'T there. What ISN'T there is anything useful for understanding our voting system, our political system, our government and the things that have happened to us, as individuals and as a country, over the last eight years. And what IS there is a putrid, Limbaughesque "gotcha" game of personality politics--guilt by association, innuendo, loaded rhetorical questions--that dances AROUND the facts of this situation--election fraud in Ohio 2004, citizen action to expose it and Michael Connell's untimely death--like a clown trying to distract you with silly faces or mime. One of these posters keeps asking, why won't Larisa Alexandrovna reveal details about her sources?, implying both that she is not telling the truth and that this poster and the public has a right to confidential information that may well endanger other people. This is sneaky character assassination, typical of the right wing, and most typical of Karl Rove and his character assassination campaigns. It is well beyond "dirty politics" (and blogger tactics) and into the dungeon of corpo/fascist psyops. You can be sure that Rove & co. would love to have those details. They may have "holes" in their Larisa Alexandrovna file that the NSA and its "Total Information Awareness" project couldn't obtain by illicit means. The poster seems bent on bullying the information out of her. But, more than this, seems bent on sullying her for not revealing things that she may not be free to reveal. It's rather like bad prosecutors--and Joe McCarthy--abusing the 5th Amendment. If the victim won't answer a loaded question, then the victim, of course, is guilty of whatever the loaded question implied. Bullying, abusive, dishonorable.
And how does this help us solve the critically important problem of non-transparent vote counting, rightwing corporations having gained control of our voting systems, rigged, stolen, unfair, dishonest elections, wretched government, and the out-of-control war profiteers, financial profiteers and global corporate predators who slaughtered a million innocent Iraqis to get their oil, and just pilfered the finacial solvency of our own country unto the 7th generation?
It helps us not at all.
Fri Jan-02-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
Well let's be fair. You could be describing the reporting on Spoonamore/Connell.
And talk about diversions, your post(s) meander as much as the new guy's. Should I read your diatribe, or work on something useful...like election reform?
The difference here is who's story you want to believe. No case has been made that Brett wants to hurt the reform movement. No case has been made that Connell rigged elections.
But you can find a lot of people that believe one or the other, some who suspect neither, some who know that they don't know, and others who haven't examined it that deeply.
Funny that Larisa is being busted for the unsubstantiated claim that Brett was "exonerated". Reminds me of the genius, and company, who claimed that Kevin Shelley was "exonerated".
I'm going to start a thread where everyone can post about what Santa brought for them. I hear Rove got a lump of coal. But as you can imagine, I've got no link.
Fri Jan-02-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
Edited on Fri Jan-02-09 05:45 PM by PrepostericityThe difference here is who's story you want to believe. No case has been made that Brett wants to hurt the reform movement. No case has been made that Connell rigged elections.
Aaah, Wilms as the voice of reason.
One needn't prove intent on Kimberlin's part to show that he damages the election integrity movement. This guy puts Bev Harris to shame when it comes to making oneself look like a self-centered, bold-faced liar. He should not be linking to a marijuana website. I love weed. But he should not be doing that. He shouldn't make up lies or let lies go that he is the moving force of things he isn't. He shouldn't say that he was a political prisoner. His past should not be buried. And the reasons why have been discussed in the big, magnificent, enlightening thread.
Certainly no case has been made that Connell rigged the elections.
So what do we have here? Is this like when the KKK threw a chair at Geraldo Rivera? Is this a case of manufacturing news?
I bet election fraud can be proven for 2004 just by showing how people were unfairly taken off the rolls, how there weren't enough booths and whatnot for the Democratic leaning precincts. It goes without saying that paperless voting is evil. Even the friggen bank gives us a receipt. I believe for all the money we put into war and mayhem, we can afford to have hand counted paper ballots! That would cut out a lot. But we also need campaign finance reform.
To me, I finally see what the psy-op was. It revolved obviously around exit polls. It also revolved on ESI being there at the end with the rubber stamp.But you can find a lot of people that believe one or the other, some who suspect neither, some who know that they don't know, and others who haven't examined it that deeply.
Some are probably adept at completely avoiding the rabbit holes.Funny that Larisa is being busted for the unsubstantiated claim that Brett was "exonerated".
It's tough to believe someone on anything, if she can't even either retract the claim or prove that he was exonerated for his heinous crimes.
http://www.itsaboutmusic.com/epoxy.html"I have the credibility to sing about all aspects of life
from a very unique and pure perspective.”
- Brett Kimberlin of Epoxy
Brett Kimberlin, guitar and vocal, wrote all the songs on Nothing Else while incarcerated as a political prisoner by right-wing elements opposed to his First Amendment rights to speech and political activity. Many prisoner rights groups came to his rescue, including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, American Civil Liberties Union and Families Against Mandatory Minimums, and he was released after several years of suffering. A portion of each album sale will be contributed to these four organizations.
That's an outright lie. He was not a political prisoner. He was "released after several years of suffering." This is the kind of thing that reeks bad. He's a strawman for the election integrity movement.
Fri Jan-02-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. when will you get your next Tombstone? you were ObamaDaMan just a month ago
On your website you admit to having posted at DU as:
Some of you may recall ObamaDaMan trying to smear Andy Stephenson (RIP)?
You also have trashed the DU moderators on your website (which I won't link to and give you the traffic, but the mods have it)
Fri Jan-02-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Here are some of his comments on his site.
"This next example of censorship, imho, is proof that DU is rigged"
"DU moderating is grotesque....I am the only person who is trying to expose DU for the fascist major forum it is..."
"There is no other way to show that DU moderating has been infiltrated by disinfo."
"I actually couldn't care less, if they ban me. It's fairly obvious that Prepostericity is me, but for them to ban myself, that would be some kind of proof that they know about this website."
"I'm not sure how long I will be able to post there. I wish they'd just give me amnesty for my days posting on chemtrails in the 9/11 dungeon. I don't like to hide who I am. I don't like feeling blacklisted by major forums."
"posts I made as USofFascism .... I got tossed from DU because I was making too much sense."
"The Democratic Underground is ultimately a freeper website. They are right of center politically. My sense is that (edited) is the chief mole along with (edited). The top three guys are just regular corporate sheep raking in their bucks as phoney yuppies."
"DU doesn't want the public to know how they cheat with the moderating."
"...nutjob freeper troll Andy Stephenson"
"The Democratic Underground is an insidious entity."
Sat Jan-03-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. sounds pretty conflicted
If he seriously thinks that DU is "a freeper website" and all the rest of that, why would he just want amnesty?
As far as I can tell, the 'dirty little secret' of DU is that the mods try pretty hard to enforce the stated rules. It's interesting how some people (not just this guy) interpret everything as a political plot.
(But of course, if I'm the one saying that, well, heh heh heh.)
MarisaCat wrote:...And all the so-called “box car sites” ... the plan was that we should be boxed in. “have nowhere to go”.
Sorry to barge in. I got here through a 2006 post dealing with Kos being a disruptive force, that the netroots in general is a connection of box car websites with the intent of boxing us in.
The Democratic Underground needs to be added to the list of disruptive forces against true progressive thought.
They deleted around 200 posts. They were in the electoral integrity forum. It had to do with the Mike Connell hoax. It had to do about the truth about Brett Kimberlin. Fake journalists and activists have been busted parading lies about rightwing whistleblowers. Did you know that Larisa Alexandrovna claims to have had Michael Connell as a source? Did you know that she said he was scared and ready to spill the beans? So what is Larisa Alexandrovna concerned with? She wants people to vote for her and Brad Friedman for some best liberal blog awards. That isn’t even her real name. She also vouches for the Speedway Bomber and claims that he was exonerated for heinous crimes. She claims he was a political prisoner.
And what’s Brad’s opinion of Brett Kimberlin’s past. I don’t believe he’s ever mentioned it. Brad and the Speedway Bomber are co-founders of the Velvet Revolution, that “progressive” group with a knack of finding rightwing whistleblowers. Although no one has yet to receive a reward for providing information to them which brings about a conviction for election fraud.
It just seems so very fishy
Perhaps this is a case of goose meeting gander. If lots of people wish to declare that the Republicans have been caught dead killing a whistleblower, others could start a cottage industry speculating about how Kimberlin became so influential with the "election integrity" movement.
I see your point about Arnebeck maybe not having as direct a connection with VR as it may seem at some links. But it does seem that Kimberlin has been the money behind Raw Story, Velvet Revolution, AfterDowningStreet, and other websites. Is his money from selling tons of weed?
Why was there ever a need to put this guy's name out in circulation? Why put him down as co-founder of Velvet Revolution? Why seek out attention by doing interviews and water boarding and writing anti-Bush songs for his daughter, etc.? Why not just be an anonymous donor to peace and justice, if he were truly turning over a new leaf? The name Brett Kimberlin might as well be Brett Strawman.
Was he a pedophile who killed his victim's grandmom? Did he set off the bombs to divert attention from the murder trial?
Where's Stone Phillips when you need him? My point is, we wouldn't need to dig into this crazy stuff, if Kimberlin weren't such a dominating presence with Brad Friedman and now apparently with Larisa Alexandrovna.
I don't think either Brad or Larisa can recover from any of this, unless they can break free from Kimberlin's mind games like Mark Singer did. For both of them to ignore the truth about Kimberlin is downright unsettling.
Brad's big break was with the Clint Curtis story. That was a Brett Kimberlin Strawman production. Larisa says Kimberlin was a political prisoner who had been exonerated and received a huge settlement. If she were Roseanne Barr making those statements, no one would care. But how does a journalist get the facts so very wrong?
Does she have any proof at all of this alleged contact with Mike Connell? That is an outrageous idea.
If what was good for the goose could be applied to the gander, we could have a field day constructing a cointelpro conspiracy theory of this being right wooing left.
I think most everything can be argued as being off-topic. Is Jason Leopold off-topic, too? Larisa used to co-write articles with him. He came out with that bull making liberals and the internet look bad. This is the same kind of thing. This makes election fraud look like tinfoil. Are we seeing a trend here? I remember seeing Wayne Madsen articles posted at Raw Story. Do we see a trend here?
Larisa needs to tell the truth about Kimberlin. She needs to cough up what Connell said to her. She needs to prove that Connell was in contact with her. Otherwise, her story sounds utterly unbelievable.
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