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The_Last_Name_Left Sounds Like CarmenJonze

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The_Last_Name_Left Sounds Like CarmenJonze

Unread postby socrates2 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:57 pm

One can go to the Trausti WRH board where Tlnl posts. There is a relatively new thread there where TLNL has turned almost into a pure 9/11 debunker. I always let it slide when he would use the phrase twoofer or the variations. If one goes to the Randi Rhodes Message Board, if they register, they can go to the hidden 9/11 section. If you read the posts by carmenjonze, you will see someone who sounds nearly identical to The_Last_Name_Left.

And now I regret moving a post made by Isard months ago where he took umbrage with a link I used. I moved his post, because I hadn't used the link to debunk 9/11 truther questions. I had used a link to merely showcase how neo-nazis like Carto and Harkins have hijacked these certain issues. Tlnl has been brilliant in outing Alex Jones and Michael Rivero as disinfo. But I now have a serious problem with how he takes one issue, the 9/11 disinfo merchants and how he has become pretty much no different from a complete debunker. These are two separate issues.

And Tlnl admits he used to think it was an inside job. He has gone from total believer to total debunker. Well, he does here and there leave a bit of room for the inside job type questions. I don't know. I am no expert on 9/11. Do I think it was done by Bin Laden? No friggen way. The guy had severe health issues and denied his involvement. Terrorists have historically never denied when they have pulled off some kind of horror event. Never.

On a side note, it has now been 100% confirmed in my mind that the Democratic Underground is a freeper website. I know that must sound a bit crazy. But my point is, they completely disallow leftists unless they are also into conspiracy theories. I believe that the people who have been stalking me have inside power at the DU. I also believe that David Benjamin Burch is a major player with internet disinformation. I believe he was banned by the DU only to create the facade of distance between himself and the other paid debunkers.

Look at it this way. One thing about Jay Reynolds is that he doesn't like people to be reminded of his strong ties to William Cooper. It just makes him look to be a paid fake. How is a debunker of "conspiracy theories" going to explain his close ties to William Cooper? He can't.

Burch has the same kind of convoluted history. Same as his buddy Andy Stephenson. DU needed to create the illusion that Burch the nutjob is not the same as the JREF professional debunker crew.

Also, one can search engine Ben Burch and see that he has had as convoluted an internet history as anybody.

The Randi Rhodes Message Board has been completely infiltrated. People like Carmenjonze are now using outright disgusting sexist phrases. I'll wrap this post up. People have to do the homework themselves to see what I am on about. But trust me, it isn't that hard to check fact the things I post. It's not like I don't provide links and evidence.
socrates2
 

Re: The_Last_Name_Left Sounds Like CarmenJonze

Unread postby who » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:02 am

What happened? Why did they ban you? :shock:
who
 

Re: The_Last_Name_Left Sounds Like CarmenJonze

Unread postby socrates2 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:21 pm

Hi Who,

Ha, that sounded like Ed McMahon from the old Tonight Show.

But anywho, .... sorry, couldn't resist.


You need to understand a bit about my travels on the internet the last few years. I am honest to the core. I have a curiosity that is rarely satisfied. An extensive network of fake progressives has been uncovered. And I don't just make grandiose proclamations. I back them up with proof. But to be honest, it is impossible to keep reinventing the wheel.


The RRMB is part and parcel of a disinformation racket which includes but is not limited to WhatReallyHappened, BradBlog, Democratic Underground, Progressive Independent, RawStory, Rigorous Intuition, DailyKos, Free Republic, and Democratic Warrior. I mention Free Republic and Kos even though those are rightwing websites because they are the ones who use the progressive strawmen domains for fodder.

There are two big names that appear to be the kingpins, Brett Kimberlin and Ben Burch. We are talking modern day cointelpro. I now believe that Randi Rhodes is a selfish sell-out. If you go to her information page, you will see that her executive producer is a self-described progressive moderate. Could these people make it any clearer that they are not real progressives?

You may want to use a different username to post here. Otherwise, if you show any signs of helping get this information out to people, you will be next on the ban list.

The specific reason I got banned?

Since being put back into the moderator queue about a week ago by J2NYC, all I had left was the ability to send private messages. I believe I made the mistake of sending one to a new shiny fake username named Matrix1984. She started a thread asking whether the RRMB was a waste of time. She showed fear that the election coming up is about to be rigged, just as it has been in 2000 and 2004.

I soon regretted sending her the pm, for on that thread she later buckled under like a house of cards after the primary fake usernames swarmed her. Matrix1984 could very well be a sock puppet. How best to throw truthseekers off the scent than to lie right in front of our faces? They'll have someone act the concern troll role, then they swarm, then the person either complies or is forever tarnished as being a freeper.

I pm'ed three people. Yourself, Proudfootz {sp?}, and then Matrix1984. This is something I have done at message boards in pursuit of finding allies. There is a strange poster named HughManateeWins from RI. When he showed up at a dive called BreakForNews, I made sure that he knew about the global warming debunking. I could write a roster longer than the one given in The Iliad of all the people who have presented themselves in one way, but who turned out to be insidious fakes. This is referred to as the bait and switch.

I think I was banned saturday after making a few more pm's. They didn't ban my ip, just the username. I went to the board. The two moderators working at the time I was banned were J2NYC and RandyS. No surprises there.

The only thing the dark side has left is to paste me as paranoid and delusional.

But they cannot allow me to stay on their boards. I make too much sense. Did you notice that I outed Morgan as being a sock puppet of OKthatsIT? That is the kind of thing I am well-known for being able to do. And I don't just spread accusations. I dig and use my academic background to try my best to prove what I am talking about. I am after the truth no matter what it is. Judge Brandeis spoke of truth even into its innermost parts.

To be sprecific, I have busted BradBlog, BreakForNews, Progressive Independent, and now the Randi Rhodes Message Board. I won't even mention the chemtrail boards and chemtrails in general on the internet. My work on those speaks for itself.

I believe in freedom of speech and association. The dark side can't allow us to have that. Since I am perhaps the only pure trollbuster on the internet, I am smeared across the board. Instead of it being common knowledge that Ben Burch is some form of disinfo troll, the few individuals like myself get pushed into a tiny portion of the net.

The DemocraticUnderground is no place for progressives. Nor is the RRMB. Democratic Warrior is a false front against those two places. It is run by Ben Burch. We are talking about controlled opposition.

They know when it is one person against the totalitarian tank, there is not much that one person can do. These people are working out of black-op military manuals. Randi can act all dumb like it's a celebrity blog and she isn't really too involved, that it is for public relations purposes. But I don't think so now. She was in the Air Force. Someone should investigate her executive producer who considers himself a progressive moderate. A WTF? So does that make me a moderate communist?

True progressives are being squeezed out. These psy-oppers know we have no organisation to fight back, only some rare pockets of awareness.

I did send Egghead a mean message after she wrote me one and then shut off her pm. Egghead is in on it or is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. And good luck to any newbies and lurkers trying to figure this out. The RRMB makes it very difficult. I now believe it was Ben Burch's decision to delete the archives.

I have screenshots to prove that Egghead and WhoseMarie are liars. But I am on dial up. I can no longer pound out work like I did in my days of high speed. That doesn't mean I am giving up, however.

Let's focus in on one example to show you how paid astroturfers control the RRMB, and subsequently how they are all over the internet with their divide and conquer rubbish.


Female Sexuality:

The fakes are into patriarchy. They establish fake prgressive forums such as Common Sense Common Ground, but their real agenda is NO PROGRESSIVES ALLOWED!

This may come as a shock to people, but women are as capable of men of attaining sexual pleasure. This goes against how the sex industry personifies women as objects to be used. Ben Burch is a latent homosexual as are all fascists like Bushwa and Carmenjonze. They own the RRMB. They own it. We are not talking about infiltration. They run the place. When folks have to steep so low as to use sexism to attack Sarah Palin, that says it all. Real progressives are not sexist.

Anyway, I had a catharsis yesterday after following a lead you provided me during our recent brief exchange of pm's. I looked into the story of Ben Burch versus Violet Blue. I don't think I can link to her blog, because she has a link to a "clean" pornography website on it. That might break the free forums rules. But it shouldn't be too tough for folks to find. She wrote something about how when a man hates a woman. It is from August and she totally busted Ben Burch for his lies.

I left a post there last night. It is in her moderator's queue, she is awfully busy from the looks of things, but ironically, my post if allowed will follow one from FrankSolich, a scumbag posting at the Free Republic who can be easily tied into Burch and the gang that has been distorting the election integrity movement. These are pros, Who. These are not dumbass freepers or trolls in basements. These are usernames who are part of sophisticated astroturfing campaigns.

Anyway, to cut to the chase, I told Violet Blue that the attack on her wasn't personal, that she was simply at the wrong place at the wrong time, that Burch saw her as a means to spread his divide and conquer, in this case as regards to maintaining tension between the sexes.

Burch spread lies about her. He made her out to have started a lawsuit against him, but in fact, she had simply asked for a restraining order against him for internet stalking. She said that although it was dismissed, she didn't want to pursue it any further, even though she still believes someday such a case {internet stalking} will make it to the Supreme Court one day. She doesn't want to be the whatchamacallit, the precedence or whatnot.

I told her how the same thing has happened to me, albeit under completely different circumstances. I explained how this wasn't probably someone to really worry about, that Burch in a way was only doing his job.

Here's the lowdown.

Burch sent her an awful email encapsulating his position which by the way lines up with the sexist bullshit that goes on all the time at the RRMB. From one poster's response, it seems the story can be figured out. A porn video was made using her name of Violet Blue. Burch is some kind of advocate for the sex industry. He blasted Ms. Blue, calling her ugly and other things while making up some story about her harrassing someone named, I believe, Ada Johnson, who seems to have been the "actress" from that "movie."

We are talking controlled opposition. This is why I get banned from these major forums. It is ok for me to be there when I am perceived as one of the nutjob chemmies. It serves their purpose of making liberals look bad. But as soon as it becomes clear that there is nothing but a fake base, that I am simply one individual standing up to the totalitarian tank, the hammer is put in place.

Violet Blue is an accomplished sex therapist. She is published by many mainstream magazines and has a column in a popular San Francisco weekly. She is not a porn star and has never performed sex in any way for a paycheck. Now, I believe sexuality is a personal thing. I am not going to judge Ms. Blue. Have you heard of Dr. Ruth? Violet Blue is a modern day Dr. Ruth. She has shown through her work that male and female sexuality are inherently equal. That is not what latent homosexuals want the public to be aware of. And before anyone twists my ideas around, I am pro homosexual/lesbian rights. I believe a small percentage of folks are born gay, that they as anyone else have the right to live their lives the way they choose to, to have as much chance to be in the open with their true loves as heterosexuals. A while back I read somewhere a theory of how Hitler and the SS were full of latent homosexuality. Basically put, that is the type of syndrome which results in mysoginy {sp?}, a hatred of women.

I hope this post has made sense. Again, it is impossible to keep reinventing the wheel in every thread. Elsewhere on this forum I have explained why those domains listed above are considered by myself to be part of an insidious astroturfing network. I do not believe for one second that Ben Burch ever had a real fight with the Democratic Underground. I believe that was staged in order to give the impression that Burch has no control over what goes on at the DU.

I was banned by the RRMB for many reasons, but mostly because I became the #1 trollbuster on the internet. They could not afford to have me around. I, along with Lophofo and a few others have been the only ones to clearly show that the chemtrails are real and why they are being done. The dark side is unable to cookie cut me into being any part of a convoluted script consisting of closed-minded debunkers and crazy believers. I outed Morgan as being a paid username. I refused to let fake bullies push me around.

Perhaps the biggest reason I was banned is because I have outed the network of fakes dominating the major progressive boards. I call on all good people to call into Randi's show and ask her why she is allowing her board to be run by fake progressives. I call on them to speak truth to power. I implore them to research and come up with information like I have done and get that onto the airwaves. If Brad Friedman is doing a radio show, call him up and make him answer specific questions about Brett Kimberlin's past. I call on all good people to swarm the Democratic Underground and take back the Democratic Party from the rightwingers.

Make no mistake about it. We are living in a lawless land which relies on the illusion of freedom to maintain the status quo of greed and war. I believe a big reason that the RRMB archives were flushed is because of what I came up with in the Cindy Sheehan forum. A hoax was started at the RRMB portraying Cindy Sheehan as a media whore. Lies were spread that she had done an interview with Larry Flynt. How come that thread can't be found even through the google cache? I believe that based on Burch's provable actions and extensive internet activities with ties to convoluted people like Andy Stephenson and many others, that he is a kingpin with the disinfo. The RRMB needs myself to be looked on as being a crazy troll. They cannot afford to let the world know the extent of the disinformation spread on the internet.

The RRMB now has zero credibility because it forgot to read the part in the troll linguistic manual about the art of subtlety.

When paid trolls are exposed, all they have left for options are the raising of the noise to signal ratio and the cybersmearing of their critics.

Violet Blue fought back. Now watch as the disinfo scum simultaneously ignore this story while spreading more lies about her for the search engines. That's what happened to myself. Now why do nobodies like me have sophisticated smear attacks put in place? It is because of what has been uncovered.

The dark side havs proceeded to marginalise myself from the major forums. The Democratic Underground has no proof that I deserved to be banned last year. They refuse to reinstate me, nor do they email me with any explanation.

Rules are not evenly applied at the major progressive boards. We are in the midst of a convoluted blogosphere. To anyone who doesn't think the internet is rigged, consider politico.com. Now how does a domain overnight become so successful? Could it be that it has connections to Karl Rove? Think about Kos, DU, BradBlog, RawStory, and any number of successful "progressive" boards. Such places do not emerge out of nowhere.

True feminists and peaceniks are the biggest threats to the status quo. That is why the RRMB banned me. Thanks for your time and consideration.
socrates2
 

Re: The_Last_Name_Left Sounds Like CarmenJonze

Unread postby socrates2 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:50 am

So Who, are you ready to fight back or what? You're the one who let me in on the Violet Blue story. I have gone on to make a few posts at the tiny nibble dot com blog concerning Burch's propensity to try to make people's lives hell. Are you scared to cough up the truth? Are you a concern troll? Please don't take these questions personally. There is something called the bait and switch, and I've gotten it many times. Also, there is something called cowardice. Someone needn't be a fake. They might just be all bark, no bite.

From a quick perusal of the Mike Malloy forum, I can see that alleged "truthseeker" place is rigged. I saw how your friend Atomic got banned. I looked for the reason. There wasn't one. It looks like the same Randi JREF spinmeisters have shown up there to harrass. That's how I got banned from Democratic Underground in early 2007. I simply held my ground. But at these cointelpro dominated forums, true truthseekers get squeezed out.

That's what happened to me at the RRMB. Now are you going to cough up all the info you have on the Randi Rhodes Message Board, or are you scared? I don't have one doubt that the RRMB is fixed. There is not one moderator who isn't a sleazebag. That place has hidden agendas.

I also noticed how "MasterBen" Burch postsw and the Malloy archives have become deleted. I bet Burch and his disinfo crew decided there was too much damning evidence to leave up on the internet, just the same as with why the recent mass deletions of the old RRMB took place.

Being a trollbuster is lonely. Not one real person ever steps forward. "Who" shows up, but where is his expose, his stuff to contribute? Did he ever see the posts I made at the RRMB exposing the Cindy Sheehan/Larry Flynt hoax? No, all we get is, "What Happened?"

But I will hold judgment. I am no longer naive, however.

I see how some on the Malloy forum get the banned for their username while others are turned into a guest. What a sneaky waste of time of a forum that place is. With those banned liked Erma, one can go to their profile and check some of it out. With the ones who have been turned into guests, no such deal. Now why are some banned and others are guests? I tried to make a guest post. The forum said I needed to be logged in.



There is plenty of dirt to be found on Ben Burch.

Check this out:

scroll down for the good stuff-wow

There used to be a mykeru.com in which this guy exposed Ben Burch as being an insidious scumbag. He is on the Nova M staff. He is in tight with all these so-called progressive boards. I do not like this guy, and I don't fear him or any of the other fakes one bit. I believe the fish rots from the head down, and I don't believe the top dogs at the RRMB, including Randi herself, nor the top dogs at DU should be left off the hook. The whole stinking progressive blogosphere is corrupt to the core.

It's pretty easy to tell now why these forums stink. Then when someone like myself comes along, all we get are crickets chirping for responses. Do you value walking on eggshells at the RRMB, Who? Or are you going to step up to the plate and fight back?

You want to know why the RRMB banned me? You know damn well why. The place is rigged, and I am the only one who has been putting the pieces together with zero help from the rest of the blogosphere. There are thousands, perhaps millions, who know exactly what I am talking about. But where is their help? Are they scared? This is our chance to for once and for all prove that the internet is rigged, that there are rightwingers posing as progressives. Do I trust Randi Rhodes? I pm'ed her a few times. I emailed her producer too, the one who got canned. I always confuse Ronzo with Manzo, but I emailed all of them.

I guess it's ok for Egghead to start unsubstantiated attack threads against me, but when I confronted her and how I was slandered, I got put into the moderator queue. Then I guess my big mistake was pm'ing an apparent sock puppet named Matrix1984 among others. Perhaps the ptb's didn't like how I exposed Morgan as being OKthatsIT's sock puppet. You told me you thought perhaps the mods were reading our pm's. Maybe that is what happened.

There is a lot of good evidence on this forum proving the astroturfing is real. The ptb's as regards to internet convolution can't afford for yours truly to have any credibility. There's a reason the archives are deleted. Same as with the Malloy forum. The internet has been rigged, and these assholes complicit with war criminals can't afford to allow amateur, internet sleuths to study the evidence of such deliberate tampering with the progressive boards.

And don't think I am giving the rightwing boards like Free Republic a free ride. They are in on it too. But to be honest, I don't read those places, except for rarely when sometimes it has helped with my trollbusting. Progressivism is the way to go. These are not progressives at DU, DW, RRMB, Kos, Malloy, BradBlog, and many more. They are full of shit. You ready to help expose them, Who?
socrates2
 

Re: The_Last_Name_Left Sounds Like CarmenJonze

Unread postby socrates » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:57 pm

bump-


we got hacked, some asshat took control of bumping threads. Now why if this is a nothing board, does it keep getting attacked?


I have figured out the whole scam. The more they push me, the more I will add to the library of facts and get the truth across.


{on edit- I said I'd put the Egghead info on this thread, but I am going to start a new one in this public forum section on that, the Randi Rhodes Message Board, and Ben Burch. Then my trollbusting days should be just about over. I'm just tying together the loose ends. It's not that I am giving up. I will just soon not be going out of my way anymore to trollbust. I will also continue to blog when time permits.}
Nobody - I mean nobody - pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini
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Re: The_Last_Name_Left Sounds Like CarmenJonze

Unread postby the_last_name_left » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:43 pm

Hi - thanks for the registration - and the PM, Socrates.

Never heard of Carmen Jonze. :D I'm not he/she.

On 911 - you're right I've changed my mind about a lot of things. Lots of reasons for it, really, but in essense, simply for the reasons that

1) Most of the info that is touted as indicative of consiracy has been passed to us via the organs of fascist propaganda ie it reflects the views of fascists more than it reflects "the truth".
2) Having gone back to assess the sources and content of what I'd been LED to believe about 911, I found most of it is direct from the usual fascist sources - so I treat it MUCH more sceptically. I've reassessed the evidence, based on what I now know about the purveyors of it - which I didn't know when I first was looking into the info.

Applying what I've learnt over the last 3 years about far-right infiltration of 911 "truth movement" meant discarding much of what passes as the foundations of 911 conspiracy: most of the claims of 911 truth are simply factually untrue, whilst the rest are exaggerations, distortions, cherry-picking, etc.

One example - the claims that the shoot-down orders were changed in July 01. This is false. The orders were updated in 2001, but it was only an administrative update - nothing of substance changed. The actual change in the orders happened under Clinton, in 1997. This has been heavily promoted as a smoking gun - but it's all a gross distortion of the easily checkable facts. The initial source for the story seems to be Christopher Bollyn, reporting for Willis Carto's American Free Press.

Without knowing Willis Carto, AFP and Bollyn, one might legitimately accept the report at face value, as I once did. But in light of what we know about Bollyn, AFP and Carto esapecially - it's stupid to take what they say at face value.

All this stuff about Carto etc infiltrating 911 movement has to have some impact - and it does: it negates almost everything "the truthers" hold dear.

That doesn't mean that "the official story" is therefore "true", and that I unquestioningly believe it. But anyway - even if AQ and OBL were responsible - Afghan and Iraq invasion are still war crimes - and wholly illegitimate. All that stuff amounts to far greater crime than 911, even if it were an "inside job". And for me, 911 conspiracy's function has been misdirection - away from the real and obvious crimes of iraq and afghan.

In the widest sense, 911 conspiracy helps people believe that the "evil" in the world is caused by a group of people - a conspiracy. Such thinking tends to prevent people from addressing the systemic and structural reasons for "evil" ie capitalism/imperialism.

It also has a deep subtext of suggesting terrorism is "not real" - it's manufactured. Conspiracism denies terrorism, and therefore the reasons which cause it. Conspiracism denies the conditions which generate terrorism and therefore does a great service for capitalist imperialism. Because, remember, the conditions which generate terrorism are largely the result and responsibility of capitalist imperialism - poverty, oppression, dictatorship, exploitation, inequality etc.

I have a few logical objections too. For example, the claim is a "NWO globalist conspiracy" which controls world events for its own ends. But if this conspiracy already controls world events, why does it need to interfere with world events? Apparently the conspiracy that runs everything is trying to gain control of - everything! If the conspiracy already possesses total control of all world events, what is the purpose of its actions? If it ALREADY controls everything, why does it need to try gain "total control"? Nobody has ever had an answer for this question, btw - not surprising tho? lol

Also - myself, along with almost every other CT has made the mistake of adding up tiny probabilities - and thinking that makes it "possible". That's a major error as adding up tiny probabilities makes an even smaller probability, not a bigger one. And CT is predicated on this flawed logic - CT's insist on maintaining a "possibility" something "could have happened". (Although tbh if one points out the impossibilities, CT's will just move onto the next item in their list.) However, an objective person will realise that the cumulative adding up of the thinnest sort of possibilities leads to a totally improbable conclusion, whilst it also ignores the cumulative and massive weight of evidence the other way. Why do that unless one is predisposed to a certain conclusion? It's just another fraud to go along with all the others.

See - all that, and I haven't even mentioned Joooos yet. :)

So - you're entitled to wonder about my change of mind, but it's entirely legitimate. at least in my eyes :) I don't mind you questioning it - or anything I say. I haven't visited in a while and saw the post on here about me, so I thought I'd reply. I don't mind - you can question my views all you like. It makes a change - no-one else seems to care. :)

On that note, did you see the posts over at hraunfjord.org about Rivero's (apparently successful) efforts at censoring the board, and me in particular?

The wanker seemed to threaten us with the patriot act! haha. What a PRICK.

---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Your website
From: "Michael Rivero" <MikeR (at) hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Sun, November 30, 2008 4:12 pm
To: trausti (at) hraunfjord.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Aloha

I have had my attention callked to a page at your site,
http://www.hraunfjord.org/whatreallyhap ... 0ebaff27ff

I understand and support your policy of non-censorship, but I would like
to call two points to your attention. I do not know how things are down in Peru but First Amendment protections for free speech here in the US stop at the point where malice is detectable in the writings, as it is here. Spabnk Master clearly has an ax to grind and he is using your blog as the sharpening stone.

In addition, providing private details such as my brother's previous
address for the purposes of applying coercive pressure is defined as an act of terror under the USAPATRIOT act. Given the globalist tendancies in the courts these days, being in Peru might not shield you from being an accessory if Spank Master were to be charged by any of the people named in his numerous postings.

I do not engage in censorship at my own website, but I do exercise
discretion, such as not allowing porno, and certainly I do not allow stories (or advertisers) I know to be fraudulent and misleading. It is part of the responsibility that goes with the power of running a blog.

Like it or not, we are the new mainstream, and we have to act like it.

Mike



Michael Rivero
What Really Happened
wrh@whatreallyhappened.com

http://hraunfjord.org/whatreallyhappene ... 127#159127


Funnily enough it was a complaint about the BankIndex stuff - connecting Rivero and BankIndex by a COMMON ADDRESS.

WHY DON'T THEY WANT THIS KNOWN???????

The BankIndex dude phoned the mod of hraunfjord.org to ask to have the stuff taken down. Seems the BankIndex dude doesn't want to be associated with Rivero - he didn't know Rivero was involved with the far-right etc.

My response was to suggest the BankIndex dude be given a right to reply - and that he should use that to distance himself from, and repudiate the views of, Michael Rivero. Instead it seems the posts were removed to a non-public forum - I'm not sure. Disappointing though - I don't see why his "complaint" should lead to my posts being removed - I didn't assert anything which wasn't in the public domain, and my views are my own.

My intent is to put it on my blog - and offer him a right to reply.

Anyway - it shows what a wanker Rivero is (like we didn't already know)

ALl the best - TLNL
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Re: The_Last_Name_Left Sounds Like CarmenJonze

Unread postby socrates » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:02 pm

the_last_name_left wrote:Hi - thanks for the registration - and the PM, Socrates.

Never heard of Carmen Jonze. :D I'm not he/she.


Hi TLNL, thanks for the post.

Carmen Jonze is a paid troll username at the Randi Rhodes Message Board. I didn't think you were her. I only thought that you sounded like her. She throws around the twoofer word a lot. She ridicules the "believers" in a most harsh manner. I don't think you are harsh. In fact, you come across as the perfect poster. You are not timid. You are not afraid to research. You are always willing to answer any questions from others for clarification.

When we had our troubles, it was a different time, when it seemed appropriate to question whether you were legit. There was that craziness going on at the "unofficial" WRH forum. You gotta admit it was a crazy coincidence you having one post at DebateBothSides with it ironically having to do with chemtrails.

But I think it is natural for like-minded people to end up at the same websites. I think it is wicked awesome {Boston phrase} that we have come together to advance the work of "the mysterious S. Boyle."

Obviously I believe that all forums have been taken over and manipulated by astroturfers, if not outright rigged. What I find beyond any feasible rationale is that this Trausti guy has shut down his place to the public. Our public forum has been shut down by free forums. They were getting hit by too much spam and porno at abandoned forums. I didn't mind deleting that nonsense and adding them to the ban list, because I felt it was important to keep this place open for anonymous and guest posts.

I am upset with this Trausti guy for buckling under to Rivero. To be blunt, I don't think this adds up. I did happen to find the thread you started about this forum when we were having personality clashes or perhaps I'll take the blame for that one. But I did see that Tuddi, who I later believed to be a username named Jazzroc, was indeed Trausti. I am curious to see how you feel about Trausti hiding his forum. Obviously, he is trying to make it seem that he must comply with Rivero's letter.

And how twisted is it that Rivero's letter is very similar to the scam script that went on at the other WRH forum? This humble place here screenshot a whole thread started by yourself that subsequently can now only be read here.

I also was able to track down proof that Rivero has had a military e-mail address. He admits to having worked for NASA. I believe that NASA is part and parcel of the military-industrial complex. There's something very fishy about how Rivero has moved up the food chain over the years. And he talks about malice? I have seen no malice from either of us as regards to his now well-documented past and current associations. It is not malice to document open-source information and then provide one's own honest assessment.

Do I dislike Mike Rivero? Without doubt. He pumps out right woos left propaganda like it's going out of business. I am disgusted that Trausti has hidden all of your threads. The others, I could really care less. I never liked the people posting there. Most of them I never believed in. They reeked of hidden agendas.



On 911 - you're right I've changed my mind about a lot of things. Lots of reasons for it, really, but in essense, simply for the reasons that

1) Most of the info that is touted as indicative of consiracy has been passed to us via the organs of fascist propaganda ie it reflects the views of fascists more than it reflects "the truth".
2) Having gone back to assess the sources and content of what I'd been LED to believe about 911, I found most of it is direct from the usual fascist sources - so I treat it MUCH more sceptically. I've reassessed the evidence, based on what I now know about the purveyors of it - which I didn't know when I first was looking into the info.



These are two separate issues, imho. You have the right woos left propaganda which you and others have explained. Then there is the question of 9/11 itself. And not all the 9/11 info has been spewed out by people like Rivero, Bollyn, Carto, et al.. But yeah, most of it has derived from shady propagandists.

However, one needn't even be on-line to believe that 9/11 didn't go down the way of the official explanation. A passport shouldn't show up in perfect condition on the street below. Those buildings certainly looked as if they were the result of controlled demolition or some similar result. Building 7 fell like it was deliberate.

There are the put options. There is how all the Bin Ladens were allowed to leave the country, while no one else was allowed to fly. How 'bout how that one aircraft allegedly hit the Pentagon. How does a hijacker with miminal aviation experience fly so low to the ground without tipping a wing or something?

Then there's the fact that Bin Laden never admitted to being behind the attack. The guy has probably been dead for years. People can also talk all they want to about how the US alliance with the Mujahadeen was ancient history. But the truth is the US military did as much to develop them as any institution.

And what about the anthrax attacks? You can't get much more insider than those. I'm sure there is much more I could come up with to show that the official explanation is total hogwash. Like I said before, 9/11 isn't my expertise.

I sincerely believe that you are mixing apples with oranges. There is the propaganda and disinformation. Then there is the truth about 9/11. I believe it is okay, in fact necessary, to debunk the rubbish disinfo. But I feel that one eventually needs to get back on track. One needs to bash the paid trolls then get back on topic. To me, nothing personal, it seems you are playing on the trolls' turf with their scripts. I sincerely believe that you have done as I have. We ended up at forums that weren't concerned with the formation of informed consensus. In fact, I think that the fakes' #1 job duty is to deny us of our freedoms of speech and association.







Applying what I've learnt over the last 3 years about far-right infiltration of 911 "truth movement" meant discarding much of what passes as the foundations of 911 conspiracy: most of the claims of 911 truth are simply factually untrue, whilst the rest are exaggerations, distortions, cherry-picking, etc.

One example - the claims that the shoot-down orders were changed in July 01. This is false. The orders were updated in 2001, but it was only an administrative update - nothing of substance changed. The actual change in the orders happened under Clinton, in 1997. This has been heavily promoted as a smoking gun - but it's all a gross distortion of the easily checkable facts. The initial source for the story seems to be Christopher Bollyn, reporting for Willis Carto's American Free Press.

Without knowing Willis Carto, AFP and Bollyn, one might legitimately accept the report at face value, as I once did. But in light of what we know about Bollyn, AFP and Carto esapecially - it's stupid to take what they say at face value.

All this stuff about Carto etc infiltrating 911 movement has to have some impact - and it does: it negates almost everything "the truthers" hold dear.



You make good points. But, imho, ultimately people will think you are a "debunker" with hidden agendas. I do think you have made important contributions to internet awareness. You must have been doing something right to have yet another Rivero "unofficial" forum be scrubbed from the public's view.

That doesn't mean that "the official story" is therefore "true", and that I unquestioningly believe it. But anyway - even if AQ and OBL were responsible - Afghan and Iraq invasion are still war crimes - and wholly illegitimate. All that stuff amounts to far greater crime than 911, even if it were an "inside job". And for me, 911 conspiracy's function has been misdirection - away from the real and obvious crimes of iraq and afghan.



These public forums are shallow. No one has ever given you the chance to flesh out your ideas. The fakes, imho, were grateful to have you debunking 9/11 disinfo. However, your piling up of the truth about Rivero was not welcomed. That's when I got attacked. I dug into Rivero's past. Now listen, I'm not saying me and you didn't accomplish anything. But seriously, any other nobodies could have done what we did. We just so happened to like writing on public forums.

The problem, I believe, occurs with folks like us when we become too visible, when we post too freely. The ptb's wanted yourself to be just another cog in a script between closed-minded debunkers and crazy believers. When folks like us do not allow the application of the cookie-cutter, we get attacked.

That's pretty sick that Trausti has shut down your threads. I realise someone could sign up and read them. But few are going to do that. Trausti has turned out to be just another tool. You must be disgusted with this development.

Yeah, those two wars were illegal. They flew against what all the world wars were allegedly about, the securing of national borders. The 9/11 disinfo certainly has objectives going beyond simply obfuscating that tragic day. The dark side is using the internet to divide, conquer, and dumb down the masses.

I'm having big time doubts about this Trausti dude.


In the widest sense, 911 conspiracy helps people believe that the "evil" in the world is caused by a group of people - a conspiracy. Such thinking tends to prevent people from addressing the systemic and structural reasons for "evil" ie capitalism/imperialism.


You are correct, but where, please show me, anywhere on the internet where there is some good intellectual discussion going on. I don't see it. I do see that the posters with depth at places like Randi Rhodes and Democratic Underground get banned.


The ptb's pile on with the comic book imagery of the NWO, because they know it will repel the newbies and fence-sitters from investigating further. They are trying to create the image of the web as being comprised of mostly whack jobs and porn. Want to cover up the truth? Just saturate the internet with all the rubbish needed to make sure that every nook and cranny has been contaminated.


It also has a deep subtext of suggesting terrorism is "not real" - it's manufactured. Conspiracism denies terrorism, and therefore the reasons which cause it. Conspiracism denies the conditions which generate terrorism and therefore does a great service for capitalist imperialism. Because, remember, the conditions which generate terrorism are largely the result and responsibility of capitalist imperialism - poverty, oppression, dictatorship, exploitation, inequality etc.


Great paragraph. I agree completely. Remember that Bush/Cheney have been indicted nonsense? These jackasses wanted everyone to waste time thinking Bush, Cheney, and a few others have ruined the world. Then the thinking is that the last eight years have been an aberation.

This guy Jason Leopold, affiliated with Truthout.Org, Raw Story, and other "progressive" outlets was at the center of that nonsense. He killed two birds with one stone. He gave the audience the good old bait and switch. He also made the "progressive" internet look unreliable. He made the whole internet look like a joke. And I guess most are aware of the rightwing version of this called Tom Flocco.

It's a script. And real people are not wanted. Rivero is meant to call out the Joos. The closed-minded debunkers are supposed to be the ones debunking Rivero, not people like ourselves. And then when we exert our rights to be heard, we get our work scrubbed and our accounts deleted.

I have a few logical objections too. For example, the claim is a "NWO globalist conspiracy" which controls world events for its own ends. But if this conspiracy already controls world events, why does it need to interfere with world events? Apparently the conspiracy that runs everything is trying to gain control of - everything! If the conspiracy already possesses total control of all world events, what is the purpose of its actions? If it ALREADY controls everything, why does it need to try gain "total control"? Nobody has ever had an answer for this question, btw - not surprising tho? lol



They are working out of psychological handbooks. They do not control everything. They are bullies. They are trying to break down the human spirit into conformist compliance. How best to do that than take a smelly dump on this new outlet?

They control a lot, but there are pockets of awareness. There is also the possibility of taking what we learn and applying it off-line. They want to turn the internet into a facade of a free speech zone. Short term, they have us by the gonads. Long term, I think the truth will prevail, and the simple truths we are aware of will become common knowledge.

There is no malice in saying that Michael Rivero is shady. And I ask you now, how is Trausti not in Rivero's back pocket?








On that note, did you see the posts over at hraunfjord.org about Rivero's (apparently successful) efforts at censoring the board, and me in particular?


I missed that whole thing. I've been cutting back on my internet time. A while back, I went reading through your threads. But like before, you were the only one there I found interesting or legit.

There's something very fishy about this, especially how it is deja vu from what we went through at the alaska free press wrh forum.

And spank master was the avatar rank not your username. Rivero shouldn't have called you that.

These fockers represent people like us as drama queens and concern trolls. They are the type who would have forced the poison down the real Socrates' mouth.

That's pretty sad that Rivero would talk up the Patriot Act as if it had some legitemacy. He is a bold-faced hypocrite. He says he doesn't censor but calls it using discretion. He lumps you in with porn and dishonest stories. Yet where is even one example of you writing a lie about him or his associates? I don't see any proof of malice. I just see an idiotic letter written by a probable spook used as a justification to close off yet another forum with his logo in their name. Then he had the gall to argue himself as being part of the new media.

Mike Rivero has zero credibility. To me Trausti is now not too far behind. And I am not going to reinvent the wheel in this post. There is a long thread in the astroturfing section spelling out a lot of the bullshit that Rivero has been involved with. It is not rocket science to see that Rivero is some form of disinfo tool. That is not malice. That is what Rivero clearly is. These fockers just don't want ordinary nobodies to be the ones to expose him. They want his disinfo, like that of Jones and Madsen, to be used by the other side in a controlled oppositional script.


Funnily enough it was a complaint about the BankIndex stuff - connecting Rivero and BankIndex by a COMMON ADDRESS.

WHY DON'T THEY WANT THIS KNOWN???????

The BankIndex dude phoned the mod of hraunfjord.org to ask to have the stuff taken down. Seems the BankIndex dude doesn't want to be associated with Rivero - he didn't know Rivero was involved with the far-right etc.


Now because of Trausti, this info is no longer available except for here. They don't want this known because then the whole facade of Michael Rivero comes tumbling down.


My response was to suggest the BankIndex dude be given a right to reply - and that he should use that to distance himself from, and repudiate the views of, Michael Rivero. Instead it seems the posts were removed to a non-public forum - I'm not sure. Disappointing though - I don't see why his "complaint" should lead to my posts being removed - I didn't assert anything which wasn't in the public domain, and my views are my own.


That Trausti forum was huge too. That's beyond bizarre that he succumbed to Spooky's unsubstantiated letter and shut down the whole place to the public.

My intent is to put it on my blog - and offer him a right to reply.

Anyway - it shows what a wanker Rivero is (like we didn't already know)

ALl the best - TLNL



So instead of clearly articulating what their concerns are with proof to back up their claims, both the Bank Index dude and Rivero wish to have things scrubbed and deleted. I don't buy any of their stories. From my limited reading of Rivero, Trausti, and Bank Index connections, I think this whole thing has been scripted. I'm not buying any of it. But I do admit to trusting you right now. Take care.
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Re: The_Last_Name_Left Sounds Like CarmenJonze

Unread postby socrates » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:48 pm

I'd just like to add that I have seen some of your exchanges at the Rigorous Intuition forum. That is a rigged website. I troll busted the Penguin a long time back. Jeff Wells, the owner, reeks of disinfo. He was banned from the DU for voting racist in a poll. His old moderator, Et in Arcadia Ego, is a fake. Wells is tight with Tinoire, another fake. I have even been able to tie these jackasses in with Brad Friedman and Brett Kimberlin.


You raised a great point. There is all that bullshit at RI about it being a lefty forum, but where is the socialism? Where is the thoughtful prose? How aren't there many links with substance?


Rivero gave away the game plan when he said he was part of the new media. Psy-ops are all over the internet. You were interacting with paid fakes and their sock puppets, imho.


Jeff Wells is tight with Tinoire, who is tight with Madsen and Rivero. You should realise that you are dealing with pros, regardless of how stupid their posts appear.

Nice To See Alex Jones Has Turned Into A Hate Site
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Re: The_Last_Name_Left Sounds Like CarmenJonze

Unread postby socrates » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:56 pm

The Rivero letter isn't showing up with the search engines. Any chance you could salvage what's been scrubbed?
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Re: Jeff Wells Admits to Close Tie with Vreeland

Unread postby socrates » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:54 pm

There is another thread at Rigorous Intuition where the imho scripted trolling has pounced on you.

Jeff Wells made an interesting comment later on. He said that his oldest friend is Delmart Vreeland's lawyer. :shock: Some major "progressive" bloggers are now connected to the hip. Brad Friedman and Larisa Alexandrovna are tied to Andy Stephenson, Jason Leopold, Ben Burch, et al. Stephenson admitted to being an acquaintance of Vreeland. You have tied Rivero to Maynard and Carto. Rivero is tied to Tinoire who is tied to Jeff Wells. Madsen is tied to Tinoire. Rivero is tied to Jeff Rense.

And the reason folks like us aren't more public about the now obviously corrupted internet is because in short, the internet is rigged. The paid trolls come back with their divide and conquer mentioning Israel at every opportunity.

Why does everything have to have a bitter tinfoil after taste? Why can't dialogue on the internet be more free flow, sincere, and based on evidence and what has been posted?

You, my friend, are in a hornet's nest. The only reason they allow you to stay is because there are so many other usernames spewing the conspiracy theory lingo.

They know that our voices will never be allowed to flourish at places like RI. Your 10,000 or whatever posts at your home base of the WRH Trausti forum are GONE! That's bullshit.

Anyway, here is Jeff Wells admitting to being closely tied to Vreeland:


Image


These fools are predetermined strawmen, imho. They are astroturfing that there are tons of "conspiracy theory" types. You are to be pigeon-holed as being Mossad or some other disinfo tool.

I'm proud of what the few of us have accomplished. We are part and parcel of pockets of awareness. We pose a threat to the scripted zeitgeist. I think that once you realise how close you are to the trenches of paid disinfo, a lot of your internet experiences will add up to some type of catharsis.

Now I'm off to close the public forum by moving the threads into other areas. I hope you stick around. I'll never delete your posts. I won't ban you. If you want an avatar, let me know. I think only admins can add those. Uhm, that's about it. I basically wanted you to know exactly who it is you are dealing with at RI. Those people do not play fair. A brief study of Jeff Wells with his internet history and ties to others tells me that RI has been rigged from the beginning.
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