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Nice work, socrates

Unread postby may41970 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:58 pm

The only contact I've had with DU was back a couple months ago when I read your Chemtrails thread there. In fact, it was that very thread which reestablished my respect for you as important chemtrails writer. I watched as you were ridiculed and attacked over at DU. I watched the attackers cheered on. No administrative action was taken against those that made fun of you - but when you tried to defend yourself, you were banned.

And that was enough of DU for me. Granted, I don't know that much about Skinner and Kevin Mace and one or two Allens - the discussion is rather complicated, and I don't know if I'm going to have the energy to study it in great detail.

But one thing is very clear. PI is corrupt. They ban, bury and obfuscate, twist the truth, focus on the weakest link in your argumentative chain. They ignore your main points about corruption at DU, instead focusing on a possible error you made, so as to discredit you. If you make a small mistake, PI makes it into a mountain. If you say the truth, then the admin simply removes posts, changes posts and changes the threads so that you appear to be a liar. Case in point - the "jewboy" posts.

From what I've seen, Tinoire is one ugly, mean-hearted person. Whether an operative or not - she doesn't play fair. As you've been banned, as even your moniker is FORBIDDEN, there's no opportunity for you to defend yourself at PI against what's been said. Tinoire openly and publically accused you of being me. It's fine if someone suspects that you and I are the same person. I could understand it myself. But to state that "socrates = may41970" as a solid fact is not playing fair. In fact, it's outright lying.

Tinoire lies. Why is it so important to Tinoire that you look bad to the world? What did you say that scared her?

The latest trend, as you've seen, is to accuse you of being 19 or 24 or however many numbers they want. You are jay reynolds. You are me. You are gov't psyop yourself. You're insane. You're gay. You're tied in with porn. You're just a worthless ******, Jeffie-BOY!

Notice how you've become the focus, rather than what you are talking about?

It all just goes to show that you are stepping on the right toes; you're pissing off cointelpro fucks and their low-level agents at boards around the net, and it seems they are now trying to bring the hammer down on you and finish you off once and for all (I mean posting-wise). It's in Will Thomas' interest. Mike Rivero's intersest. Mark Steadham's interest, DU's, PI's and so many others. There's nothing special about what's happening to you. It's not easy to speak truth to power. It's rewardless and miserable and frustrating and lonely.

Even with the threats of violence against you from DBS, I don't think you're in any danger. Still, for the safety of yourself and your family, it's important to protect your anonymity - as is your right.

And regarding PI, I'm glad to see that there are some smart people over there that heard you out and showed support for you. I hope they have the courage to continue your discussion (if they can find a place to do so) And the truth is out about PI, thanks to you.

You are honorable and courageous, socrates. Nice work, my friend.

It's good to be back.


ps - the margins on this page are too wide. can you fix them?

Unread postby socrates » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:37 pm

Great post, may41970 When I saw ur first post saying you were back, it made my day. As regards to the margins question, that is addressed in the new "administration" type section.

I am spent right now. The head is spinning kind of thing. I totally understand how a lot of the stuff I have posted has that effect. It has not been my motive to raise the noise level. I do believe it is up to the reader to decide. But yeah, it is quite telling how Tinoire manipulated the order of that one thread. And I think I have every right to ask is that not something a paid fake would do.

May41970, you hit the proverbial nail when you said how we become the story rather than what it is we have posted.

I realise that this is just so much stuff to wade through. And I am very appreciative to all of you who have tested the waters with such materials.

The internet's a small world, ain't it?
We had our misunderstandings and NatureisMad refused to take sides, and eventually we worked out our difficulties time and time again.

You saw me at DU taking on what seemed to be a pack of astroturfers. Then you saw how I ended up at PI, where the DU "tombstoners" end up. Then you saw that PI ended up doing the same disingenuous stuff that DU and ChemTroll Central are now well-known for.

I am grateful to all who have had the patience to get to this point. I believe we now can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I sincerely believe that we now have the critical thinking tools to use the internet to our advantage.

Yet, don't get me wrong. To expose and stop chemtrails or anything else will take concrete action in the real world, and I am not talking about some show on MTV. Peace.
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Unread postby socrates » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:31 pm

Some who have been following this may have noticed that before I was banned from PI, one of my posts was deleted. Thanks to the prosemite undercover forum, that post has been found. Basically, it seemed to me that PI was going for the jugular with DU. It also appeared to me based on their "brown line" formula for who could be a member, that far lefties were more than welcomed at their place. So while I admit that the deleted post did seem to be a bit harsh towards DU and "Skinner," based on Pi's facade, it didn't seem to be out of place. Yet, the closer I got to discussing WRH, Ron Paul, DU and who their true backers are, etc., that is when Tinoire decided to scrub all my posts but the ones from "The Chemtrail Thread."

Here is that post. Again, the question remains, why is PI protecting DU, especially when it seems that they wish to be seen as a place where DU can be exposed.

It feels like how Swampgas with Gastro and Chem11 with Megasprayer became the fake gatekeeper outlets for "chemmies" who could see through the bs that is Chemtrail Central. And then we find out that Tinoire of PI is affiliated with Swampgas through the et in Arcadia ego.

From the thread at PI about my DU chemtrails are not kooky thread:

Reply #67: I Am Back; Skinner is a Fascist Pig!!!!!!!

We all know what Skinner is.
He is no better than DailyCiaKOS.



Democratic Underground is a tool of the state apparatus.
Skinner is either a paid cointelpro agent or is the most useful of idiots.
FU Skinner and every single one of you ******* lurkers from DU.
You suck. Try censoring this you pigs. FU in a big way.

Yeah, I probably sounded like a raving lunatic.
That's ok. I may be a peacenik, but I am not
the hippy-dippy type. Yes, I am anti-violence but
am not ashamed one bit for posting the above.

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Tinoire's latest

Unread postby may41970 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:09 pm

See if you can catch the subtle message there - be wary of people that "sneak in" and post about kooky things like 911 or chemtrails.

"...It looks like the website CREW, has been doing really good work and is being sabotaged by a new school of robots & paid operatives to descredit the work they've done. A user by the name of "Deep Modem" has been asking/raising some very pertinent questions/points about the legality of some of the government's activities on the net ranging from propaganda to spying on people.

The site, CREW, was then attacked by what we'll call gibberish bots and spamming it with porn keywords.

I'll try to revisit this tonight but in a nutshell, and I know this from 2 incidents at PI over the last 10 days, there are paid people on the internet who go to sites and paste a bunch of gibberish to bring down the google rankings and classifications of some serious sites out there.

It's a two-pronged attack usually involving flooding your site with porn keywords or keywords from another issue most people would dismiss as kookiness (in our case they tried to sneak in using chemtrails and 911). The more your site gets flooded with these keywords, the faster your google ranking sinks and then your category gets changed so that you look like a porn portal or a conspiracy issue portal.

These guys show up with multiple IDs, often using proxies to mask their IPs, and have a gamut of schizophrenic roles that talk to each other. I don't even know if they write the stuff themselves. I will tell you from our personal experience that if you erase that stuff from your servers, they go into an absolute fury..."

[posted by Tinoire on August 28, 12:45 pm]


Desertrose: Any Comments on This?

Unread postby socrates » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:18 pm

Courtesy of the googler, here is more proof that Tinoire completely distorts threads after the fact. She is the internet version of the shredding machine. Note well- the order of posts at PI is not determined by time and date, but rather through the use of subthreads within the main thread.

You just have to see these pronuke shills
Seventhson: nukes are killing millions of people and these pukes push them like poisoned candy at halloween:

DU Link

You just have to see it.

Reply #1: I saw another thread by that guy and every time someone posted a study... by cui bono:

against nukes he claimed it was a hit piece by an environmental group or that it was incorrect without actually rebutting any of it factually. At least there's someone who is in there to challenging him. He did so on the other thread so he seems to be intent on not letting the pro-nuke posts slide.

Reply #2: Wish we could get p-wigeon to post here.... by Desertrose:

HINT hint


Reply #3: Umm... by seventhson:

why exactly would you want to do that?

Or did I miss something?

Reply #4: Ur Post Makes No Sense... by socrates:

Not trying to be a jerk or jump to conclusions,
but I see posts from time to time, and they simply
make no sense. Evidently, some DUer is a shill
for nuclear. DR said we should invite the poster
who stood up to the astroturfer.

Doesn't seem too tough to figure out.

Reply #6: You got it.... by Desertrose:

We used to have some good times back in the ol' days ...like in the R&T forum and the infamous meeting room.

I miss seeing him...think he registered here a while ago...great & thoughtful posts....

Reply #8: Not to be a downer, but.... by seventhson:

Piggies post was sarcastic. He is super pronuke.

I would not want him around except to post the studies which prove him/her wrong. They pretty relentlessly attacked PI when I got someone to post about us in a pronuke argument (the poll mentioned in another thread here).

Reply #9: P-wigeon's post was making fun of the people like us... by Kailassa:

who see through the pro-nuke propaganda.

Please don't invite him here; he's one of the worst there.

Seventhson was spot on seeing straight through him.

Reply #10: Thanks for Clarifying.... by socrates:

Guess it shows why we shouldn't name names.
We might end up with them trolling over here.

A lot of us aren't as aware of the individual DU posters as ye are.

Well, this to me is more proof that there is organised
astroturfing going on. One doesn't usually hear
liberals or progressives espousing for the nuclear.

Reply #11: No worries, Tinnoire knows how to deal with trolls ;-) ... by Kailassa:

We had 3 in the 9/11 forum today.
Well, only one (very abusive) person, but he made 3 accounts, one after the other.
All as rude as each other and all with the same I.P.
And now they're all gone.

Don't worry yourself about getting kicked though. She never kicks anyone who wants to be here really discussing things, not even if bad mistakes are made. I've seen her and Megan bend over backwards to sort out things between angry members rather than kick anyone.

Reply #5: You should have seen the pro hiroshima and nagasaki bombing posts.... by stimbox:

I was mortified.
I know I shouldn't be considering the place, but I was.

Reply #7: I saw them!! ...and wondered where the hell I was! by Desertrose:

I had to get into it...man those people are whaacked.

The bomb saved lives...oh, you mean AMERICAN lives?!
Isn't a life a life?

{end of cached page}

Now let's see how it looks now. WTF?
This is beyond letting the reader decide.

The New Fake Thread

{I am deactivated account}

original post- seventhson remains the same
reply #1- cui bono remains the same
reply #2- desertrose remains the same
reply #3- seventhson remains the same
reply #4- me is changed to #5 deactivated
reply #6- desertrose remains the same
reply #8- seventhson remains the same
reply #9- kailassa remains the same
reply #10- me- is changed to #11
reply #11- kailassa- changed to #10
reply #5- stimbox- changed to #4
reply #7- desertrose remains the same

I'll try to make two grids. This is kind of difficult to put into words. I tried to on the big thread on PI to explain this manipulating of threads after the fact.

Real Thread:

Original Post- seventhson
____#1 cui bono
____#2 desertrose
___________#3 seventhson
_________________#4 socrates
______________________#6 desertrose
____________________________#8 seventhson
___________#9 kailassa
_______________#10 socrates
___________________#11 kailassa
____#5 stimbox
________#7 desertrose

The Fake Thread:

Original Post- seventhson
____#1 cui bono
____#2 desertrose
___________#3 seventhson
_________________#5 deactivated account
______________________#6 desertrose
____________________________#8 seventhson
___________#9 kailassa
_______________#11 deactivated
___________________#10 kailassa
____#4 stimbox
________#7 desertrose

Oh my frickin god. How does post #10 come as a response to post #11?
What is this ****? How can anyone not think PI is run by disinfo agents?

I'm gonna do the same thing in a following post with that "please do not delete" thread. On that one the # changes were way outrageous.

Maybe we should thank PI, may41970.
We looking real credible right now.
Thanks Tinoire!

:lol: :P 8)
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Reality Versus Fantasy

Unread postby socrates » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:02 pm


Original Post:
Please Do Not Delete: What is the Democratic Underground All About?
by socrates
_____#1 Lydia Leftcoast
___________#4 socrates
_____#2 Madeleine_Court
___________#3 socrates
_______________#5 seventhson
___________________#8 socrates
_________________________#13 intelle
_______________________________#14 socrates
_____#6 Iverson
___________#10 socrates
_____#7 seventhson
___________#9 socrates
_______________#11 seventhson
_____#12 socrates

{notice how I ignored the troll for #12 and started a new subthread.}

This is the new fake version. And if you don't have this link, you will not find it at PI. I best get to that link now before it gets scrubbed. :?


Original Post: .
by Deactivated
_____#1 Lydia Leftcoast
___________#13 Deactivated
_____#2 Madeleine_Court
___________#12 Deactivated
_______________#3 seventhson
___________________#14 Deactivated
_________________________#7 intelle
_______________________________#10 Deactivated
_____#4 Iverson
___________#16 Deactivated
_____#5 seventhson
___________#9 left chick
___________#15 Deactivated
_______________#6 seventhson
_____#11 Deactivated
___________#8 seventhson

Look at all the idiotic mistakes where the responses are #'d before the original questions. How can this be justifed? How can any of this be explained? With all the other stuff compiled from the other thread at this forum, I am asking you Desertrose, wtf is going on?
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Last_Name_Left Appears at PI

Unread postby socrates » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:21 pm

This is getting stranger by the day. Not sure if last name is real or fake, but his timing at PI posting like we would makes me highly suspicious. Perhaps "Tinoire" made up a fake id of her own and stole that dude's name. Either way, PI continues to expose itself.

Question - Who Owns P.I.?

inactive account-the_last_name_left:
Question - Who Owns P.I.?
Sorry if it has been asked before. I did have a look, and couldn't see the info.


TIA? as in total information awareness? sounds like Tinoire stole the name or last name has been part of this the whole time. convoluted.

Reply #1: open
Inactive Account

Progressive Independent is not a for profit commercial enterprise in the sense of a traditional business selling a product or service at a profit. We are not affiliated with any political party, group, news source, government agency or any other group. We sell no product or service. We have no clients, shareholders, customers or employees and do not accept paid advertising. What we are is a political discussion forum supported by benevolent donations.


Benevolent donations? :)

The domain name is registered through a proxy registrar.

I was interested because it seems everything leads back to wealthy and extreme right wingers. They are producing huge amounts of what passes as "news", and "comment". The well is being poisoned.

"The left" should be completely open about such things - what could it possibly have to hide?

Reply #2: Mothers Against Chemtrails
by Tinoire:

Hi to all 19 of your pseudonyms

She is stupid. This is a feeble attempt to put the genie back into the bottle. The more ludricous she is, the more people might want to check out what the other side has to say. Then of course, she loses all credibility.

Maybe she realises their cover is so blown, that they got nothing else but this kind of stupidity.
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Unread postby Don Smith » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:35 am

Frick, when he was the manager of U.S. Steel as Carnegie vacationed in Scotland,(for years), said, "Nobody ever lost a dime underestimating the stupidity of the American people."
Henry Adams said that the United States was a society which had gone directly from barbarism to Empire, with no pause to establish a culture, or a civilization.
Don Smith


Unread postby may41970 » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:05 am

Maybe "the_last_name_left" just means "Thanks in advance?"

I don't want to get into another argument with you about last name left. But as he's banned from WRH, PI, and here - he's not getting much of an opportunity to publically defend himself, on the small chance that he is "innocent" (a real person). Cause from my perspective, he's only made one questionable post anywhere that looks bad -- when he said that chemtrails are kooky.

Maybe he's young. Like you said, socrates, lots of young adults will have NO MEMORIES of what a natural sky looked like; of what natural contrails looked like. But I'm not going to argue this with you anymore because our cause is more important than our bickering on this one poster. I've had enough fighting with you this month. So I'll respect your final decision on it.

Really, I'm not trying to defend anyone - just trying to give everyone, no matter how suspicious, the benefit of a doubt.

And soc, two seperate posters - both me and "last name" have been banned from PI because Tinoire, with no evidence, accuses us of being you.

Peace to you, my friend.


ps, and totally off topic: I remember the show "make me laugh." Watched it every night. I remember Gallagher from that show, too. He NEVER made me laugh. I thought he was the most unfunny thing I'd ever seen.

Unread postby socrates » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:58 pm

I hear ya, May41970. That's why there was a time when "last name" had the opportunity to return here. But just want to point out again that "tuddi" appears to be "jazzroc" from youtube, the one who spammed the chemtrail threads there. Not saying this means "last name" is part of that racket. In fact, I have changed "last name's" ranking to "unknown quantity." Yeah, just like they have "unknow quantity" at DBS, sorry.

I think the big question now is how was PI able to delete all of those google caches. It is just like when CTC deleted so much, e.g. the "ctc changes" threads. Yet, in this case, PI appears to have access to the googler. If you check out the new thread on "Mr. Big," perhaps Mr. GoDaddy.com could fill us in.

I am thinking Don Smith is correct that these are schoolyard bullies taunting people with, "so what are u gonna do about it?"
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