All Aircraft Are Not Involved

...In the past few months, Islamists engaged in "media jihad" have increased their efforts to expose as broad a Western audience as possible to their jihad films, which purport to document the growing success of the mujahideen in Iraq and Afghanistan. As part of this endeavor, they have posted jihad films on popular free video-sharing websites such as YouTube, LiveLeak, and Google Video, hoping that such films will tip public opinion in the West against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan - thus pressuring Western governments to withdraw their troops from these countries.

As part of the campaign to foster anti-war sentiment among Westerners, and more specifically among Americans, a member of the Al-Mohajroon Islamist website with the username Al-Wathiq Billah instructed mujahideen in how to infiltrate popular American forums and to use them to distribute jihad films and spread disinformation about the war.

The following are excerpts: [1]

"Raiding American Forums is Among the Most Important Means of Obtaining Victory in the Fierce Media War… and of Influencing the Views of the Weak-Minded American"

"There is no doubt, my brothers, that raiding American forums is among the most important means of obtaining victory in the fierce media war... and of influencing the views of the weak-minded American who pays his taxes so they will go to the infidel American army. This American is an idiot and does not [even] know where Iraq is... [It is therefore] mandatory for every electronic mujahid [to engage in this raiding]."

"It is better that you raid non-political forums such as music forums and trivia forums... which American people... favor... Define your target[ed forum]... and get to know it well... Post your contribution and do not get into... futile arguments..."

Indicate You Are an American....

This is a really sophisticated approach to PSYOP that will be nearly impossible to counter. The best we can do is mitigate the impact.

Let's get "capitalistic" with this! By that I mean there is one product out there with very little competition. We can "flip" their position and relative strength quite easily by creating our own parallel slickness. We have the ability to mass produce ANYTHING and with all of the multi media capabilities we possess I don't see why there arent four or five American-made and American "spun" DVDs in every Iraqi home. Best way to break a monopoly is to introduce competition into the mix.

I dont see why we have to just do damage control on this one, we can actually win this war... now we just need to enlist our finest media personnel to institute a massive spin campaign that will influence the minds of millions and impact the decisions of... wait a minute I think they are already on the job, but they are not working for us.

If our media put as much attention into helping our cause as they do hating Bush this would BE OVER WITH.

Ender's Game is a science fiction novel that tells
the story of Andrew Wiggin (nicknamed Ender by
his sister, Valentine.) The story takes place on
Earth in the future. Earth has been attacked
twice by an alien species called Buggers, nearly
destroying the human race. Mankind begins training
young geniuses to become soldiers and commanders
to fight in Earth's defence if the Buggers should
ever attack again. Ender is extremely intelligent,
and at the age of six years old, he goes to Battle
School to be trained. Ender quickly rises to the
top in Battle School and begins training in order
to command Earth's fleet......



"Welcome to the human race. Nobody controls his
own life, Ender. The best you can do is choose to
be controlled by good people, by people who love
you." (Valentine)

...In relating Ender Wiggin’s childhood and training in Ender’s Game, Orson Scott Card presents a harrowing tale of abuse. Ender’s parents and older brother, the officers running the battle school and the other children being trained there, either ignore the abuse of Ender or participate in it.

Through this abusive training Ender becomes expert at wielding violence against his enemies, and this ability ultimately makes him the savior of the human race. The novel repeatedly tells us that Ender is morally spotless...

...The result is a character who exterminates an entire race and yet remains fundamentally innocent. The purpose of this paper is to examine the methods Card uses to construct this story of a guiltless genocide, to point out some contradictions inherent in this scenario, and to raise questions about the intention-based morality advocated by Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead....


....When Ender is not being lied to by authorities, he is being bullied. The source of most of the hatred directed toward Ender is that he is superior to virtually everyone in the book—superior in intelligence, creativity, sensitivity, logic, psychological understanding of others, morality, and, when it comes down to it and despite a lack of training and physical stature, hand-to-hand combat. In that first chapter, the same day the monitor is removed, Stilson, a playground bully, attacks Ender. At the age of six, in the first of several physical battles Ender wins, he completely incapacitates Stilson.....




At every turn Ender faces hostility, scorn, and even physical assault. The result is an escalating series of challenges and violent responses by Ender. These sequences invariably follow the following pattern:



* Ender is resented by others for his skills, honesty, intellect, superiority—in fact, for simply being who he is
* The others abuse Ender. They threaten his life.
* Ender does not or cannot ask for intervention by authority figures.
* Even when authority figures know about this abuse, they do not intervene. In most cases they are manipulating the situation in order to foster the abuse of Ender
* Ender avoids confrontation for some time through cleverness and psychological cunning, but eventually he is forced, against his will, to face an enemy determined to destroy him.
* Because he has no alternative, Ender responds with intense violence, dispatching his tormenter quickly and usually fatally. Ender engages in this violence impersonally, coolly, dispassionately, often as much for the benefit of others (who do not realize or admit that Ender kills on their behalf) as for himself. Onlookers are awed by his prowess and seeming ruthlessness.
* Ender does not know that he has killed his adversary.
* Ender feels great remorse for his violence. After each incident, he questions his own motives and nature.
* In the end we are reassured that Ender is good.....




....Graff’s judgment on the deaths of Bonzo and Stilson clarifies Card’s definition of a killer. Presumably, someone can kill hundreds, thousands, even billions (Ender eventually “kills” an entire race) and not be a killer. A killer is motivated by rage or by selfish motives. To be a killer you must intend to kill someone. And even if you do intend to kill, you are still innocent if you do it for a larger reason, “selflessly,” without personal motives. And if you feel bad about being forced into doing it......



.....The Innocent Killer

These killings by a hero whom Card has gone to such lengths to present as sympathetic indicate that Card means to put in the most challenging terms the fundamental premise of his moral vision: that the rightness or wrongness of an act inheres in the actor’s motives, not in the act itself, or in its results.

Here, as elsewhere, Card argues for a morality based on intention. Throughout Ender’s Game, we are urged many times to judge a character’s actions not on their effect (even when that effect is fatal) but on the motives of the person performing the action. As Ender states it in Speaker for the Dead, “Speakers for the Dead held as their only doctrine that good or evil exist entirely in human motive, and not at all in the act” (Speaker 39).

Though this doctrine is not codified in Ender’s Game, it is everywhere present in the action. And by testing this moral premise in situations of murder, even genocide, Card seems to dare the reader to try to reject it—as if to say, if a morality of intentionality can stand up to this test, it can stand up to any. But at the same time he chooses these difficult examples, Card goes to great lengths to urge the reader not to reject Ender based on the violent reprisals he visits on his enemies. We are told over and over, without irony, that Ender is good.......



.....Card thus labors long and hard in Ender’s Game to create a situation where we are not allowed to judge any of his defined-as-good characters’ morality by their actions. The same destructive act that would condemn a bad person, when performed by a good person, does not implicate the actor, and in fact may be read as a sign of that person’s virtue......




......The Guiltless Genocide



As I have suggested, this issue of genocide puts the morality of intention to its ultimate test. We may forgive Ender the killings of Stilson and Bonzo, but can we forgive him the extermination of a race of intelligent creatures? This question has previously been raised in an essay by Elaine Radford that appeared in Fantasy Review in 1987.12 Radford’s essay says many things with which I do not agree, and its tone is often intemperate, but she touches on several issues that are central to my own trouble with Card’s writing.

Radford’s essay speculates that Card wrote Ender’s Game as an apologia for Adolf Hitler. She points out certain parallels between Ender’s biography and Hitler’s—that they were both third children, that they were virgins until age 37, that they were close to their older sisters, that they were abused by adults, that they both committed genocidal acts.

Card, in the same issue of Fantasy Review,13 denied Radford’s assertions. He said that he had no knowledge of any of the Hitler biographical information that Radford cited. Such parallels were “trivial coincidences.” He said he intended Ender as the moral opposite to Hitler: Hitler knew what he was doing; Ender did not. Hitler intended to exterminate; Ender did not. Hitler felt no moral qualm; Ender spends the rest of his life expiating the guilt he feels for exterminating the buggers.

Let me say very clearly that I do not believe that Orson Scott Card wrote Ender’s Game as an apologia for Hitler. I do not believe the biographical parallels Radford finds to Hitler are evidence that Card intended any parallel with Hitler—other than the parallel that they both commit genocide. Like Card, I take the other points of similarity as coincidences.

Yet although Card takes pains to point out how much he intends Ender to be Hitler’s moral opposite, he does admit that his introducing the issue of genocide was deliberate.....

The board is back up and running.

It turns out that the people attacking the board were
regular members of the board who joined for the purpose
of disrupting it. They did not make bomb threats directly
but they threatened to report the board to the ADL and
the JDL...

debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=59683

READER: Alaskafreepress is down again.

What's with these guys?

Free speech is a right guaranteed by the US constitution not an "experiment".

They have all of the state and federal laws protecting them from threats which are not protected speech under our constitution and they do not have the guts to stand up to these no-name punks?

Or is the uncensored thing just a gimmick by the spiritual descendants of the "Elders of Zion" to see if they can control the masses through sophistry?

Is that the "experiment"?

WRH: I have no idea what is going on there.

The rabbit hole goes much deeper than you would ever believe. Or so the conspiracy theorists of the world would have you believe. But dig behind the scenes of the conspiracy crowd, and you'll find another conspiracy.

By James W. Crawley
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

September 18, 2000

FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. -- With a .45-caliber pistol resting with in easy reach, retired Green Beret Steven Barry commands a secret army of racists within the military' s elite forces from a ramshackle house just outside town.

Or so he says.

He has led the Special Forces Underground since 1992, when he founded the anti-Communist, anti-Jewish, white-supremacy group while he was on active duty. He also edits the group' s quarterly newsletter, The Resister.

"The United States military was created by white men for white men to defend a white nation," Barry said during an interview at the small, white frame house, located a few miles from Fort Bragg' s main gate. "It wasn' t designed as a multicultural, diverse, touchy-feely, huggy-snuggly social experiment in race relations."

Throughout the interview, Barry wore a kilt and no shirt -- his usual attire at home.

Besides the pistol on his desk in a tiny office, what appeared to be a crude time bomb was nailed to the wall above his head. Barry, who has shot at firefighters from a nearby fire station when they wandered onto his land, didn' t say whether the device was real or fake.

He enlisted in the Army in 1976 soon after flunking out of West Point. He qualified for Special Forces and taught at Fort Bragg before quitting the Army in 1985. Then, he re-enlisted in the Army and the Green Berets in 1989, finally retiring in 1997.

In 1998, Barry ran for the local school board, campaigning to resegregate the schools. He withdrew before the election, claiming that if elected he would be unable to persuade others to create separate schools for whites and blacks.

Barry complains that training standards are being lowered to accommodate more African-Americans in the Green Berets.

"Twenty years ago, you could trust a black to do a job," he said. "Now it' s questionable."

He also rails against the federal government -- he describes Washington as the "race commissariat" -- which has allowed women and gays in the military.

The Special Forces Underground' s membership is unclear. Barry declined to reveal any numbers, but did say current Green Berets and other special-operations personnel belong to his group.

The group' s newsletter is filled with diatribes against blacks, Latinos, gays, women, the Clinton administration and the military.

Barry started The Resister during the early 1990s, soon after the sieges at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

A copy of the newsletter was found in Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh' s car when he was arrested hours after the April 1995 bombing, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The center, which investigates and documents extremist groups, estimates The Resister has about 2,500 subscribers. Barry said subscribers include current and former military personnel along with civilians.

Military officials and law center experts acknowledge that the Special Forces Underground is real but say its influence and membership within the military are small.

Barry responded that Underground members and sympathizers are just that -- underground, keeping a low profile.

"There' s not a major (military) installation where we don' t have someone."

The association of challenges to the official myth of 9/11 with deniers of the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is one of the more potent weapons in the arsenal of the apologists for the official myth, although its use so far has been limited. In a column in Scientific American attacking the 9/11 Truth Movement, Michael Shermer states:
The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking (as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics).

Following this, Shermer launches into a straw-man attack against 9-11 Research implying that the website embraces the same "conspiratorial thinking" as Holocaust denial, despite the fact that 9-11 Research does not endorse Holocaust denial or Holocaust revisionism, and avoids uncritically linking to websites that do. It is easy to find writers and websites that openly mix 9/11 skepticism with Holocaust denial or revisionism. Some of the more prominent ones are:

* Christoper Bollyn, writer for The American Free Press
* The American Free Press , part of a parent organization that includes the Hitler-praising Barnes Review
* Eric Hufschmid, the author of influential books and videos about the 9/11 attack.
* Public-Action.com , a site that highlights the Waco massacre, speculates about 9/11 conspiracies, and promotes neo-Nazi websites
* Serendipity.li , a site with extensive links to AmericanFreePress.net and public-action.com

In January of 2007 CNN devoted a segment of Paula Zahn NOW to attacking all 9/11 'conspiracy theorists' as racists who assert that Jews were behind the attack...


The Barnes Review Praises Hitler as Deserving of the Nobel Prize.





The American Free Press was Founded by Right Wing Ideologue Willis Carto

The American Free Press was founded by Willis Carto, believed by some critics to be the leading exponent of anti-Semitism in the United States in the latter half of the 20th century. Carto, widely considered a white supremacist, was co-founder of the Institute for Historical Review, which has championed Holocaust revisionism and has been accused of being a neo-Nazi organization. Carto also founded The Barnes Review, and the Liberty Lobby, best known for publishing the now-defunct paper The Spotlight. Carto and other editors from The Spotlight went on to establish the American Free Press.

e x c e r p t
title: Liberty Lobby
authors: unknown
Liberty Lobby, however, remained under the control of Carto until the end. During the 1970s, as the old anti-Communism of the 1950s and 1960s fell out of favor, Carto redefined the public image of Liberty Lobby, increasingly taking on the public image of populist rather than conservative or right-wing. In 1975, Liberty Lobby began publishing a weekly newspaper called The Spotlight, which ran news and opinion articles with a very populist and anti-establishment slant on a variety of subjects, but gave little indication of being extreme-right or neo-Nazi. However, The Spotlight, critics charged, was intended as a subtle recruiting tool for the extreme right, using populist-sounding articles to attract people from all points on the political spectrum including liberals, moderates, and conservatives, and special-interest articles to attract people interested in such subjects as alternative medicine, while the newspaper subtly incorporated anti-Semitic and white racialist undertones in its articles, and carried advertisements in the classified section for openly neo-Nazi groups and books. The Spotlight for a while became the most widely-read periodical on the right in the United States, with circulation peaking around 200,000 in the early 1980s. While circulation experienced a steady drop after that, it continued to be published until Liberty Lobby's demise in 2001.




Eric Hufschmid was one of the first researchers of the 9/11 attack to come to prominence, with his 2002 book Painful Questions , and his 2003 video Painful Deceptions. Both of these highly original works pair the idea that the Twin Towers and WTC 7 were felled by controlled demolition with the idea that the Pentagon was hit by a small aircraft such as a Global Hawk drone rather than Flight 77. Neither the book nor the video betray Hufschmid as a Holocaust denier or racist -- positions he has since openly embraced or been accused of. However, less publicized writings of Hufschmid foreshadow these things, such as one with the punchline, 'Duh! The Jews!':
e x c e r p t
title: Who would put explosives in WTC? And why?
author: Eric Hufschmid
None of the books or movies about the Holocaust are serious; rather, they try to stimulate pity of Jews and hatred of Nazis. The Holocaust stories are attempts to manipulate, not educate.

The Jews are simply exploiting the suffering and death of their fellow Jews. The moment a Jew suffers or dies, the other Jews look for ways to exploit the situation. It reminds me of the way cockroaches immediately begin eating one another when one of them dies.
page: 911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/hufschmid/WhoBlewUpWTC.html

By 2006 Hufschmid was describing himself as a Holocaust denier. Several of his articles published in iamthewitness.com blame the 9/11 attack on Zionists and Jews. Hufschmid even describes The American Free Press , which apparently fired Christopher Bollyn, as connected to the Zionist "criminal network". In his more recent (and increasingly vitriolic) rants, Hufschmid consigns ever more people to the criminal network....



e x c e r p t
title: 'No Planes on 9/11 and No Gas Chambers in the Holocaust'
authors: Mark Robinowitz
The 9/11 truth movement has attracted a lot of people who want to be instant experts. Some crave public recognition. Others, no doubt, have their unique psychological reasons, some good, some not so good. But those who make very bold conclusions while being ignorant of most of the available evidence run the risk of "foot in mouth" disease, and worse, their antics can rub off on the rest of us, especially if they seek to connect neo-Nazi pseudo historians and 9/11 truth activists in common cause.

Due to these (and other) efforts to link 9/11 skeptics with Holocaust denial, there are a fair number of citizens who think that 9/11 investigation is really all about blaming "the Jews" for the atrocity, both from those who want to blame the "jews" and those who think that 9/11 investigation is anti-semitism.

Not all "conspiracy theories" are true - some are blatant revisions of history to snare the gullible or those who let their anger get in the way of the facts.

The 9/11 truth movement should not be co-opted by those who want to pretend that one of the greatest crimes in history was oversold by Jews in order to justify a land grab in Palestine.

It would not be surprising if many of the voices most loudly advocating Holocaust Denial were "false flag" operatives of the Israeli government - since the fact that some crazy people promote these lies makes it more difficult to find political space to criticize Israeli human rights abuses (even though the two issues are quite separate).

The creator of an underground magazine aimed at the Special Forces is out of the Army but building up his role on the extremist right
By Gregory A. Walker

Eleven days after the April 19, 1995, Oklahoma City bombing, Sergeant First Class Steven M. Barry, a.k.a. "J.F.A. Davidson," appeared on CBS' "60 Minutes."

Questioned by reporter Steve Kroft, the Special Forces soldier — his face obscured and voice altered electronically to hide his identity — identified himself as the editor of an underground newsletter called The Resister. Introducing Barry's "political warfare journal," Kroft told his listeners that it used "the same inflammatory rhetoric espoused by the radical militia movement and portrays the U.S. government as the enemy."
...

Off-Topic, But This Was The Thread In Which EA Got Banned

I have recently come across a pm from Entropian Artifact at breakfornews, where we met. For some reason I am no longer being notified when I am sent new pm's. Plus, when I have gone to my mailbox there, for some reason, it has been saying that I have no new messages, even when I clearly have been sent new ones.

Out of fairness, here is EA's response to the "eugenics" controversy. Perhaps both sides in this can put it to rest, find some kind of closure to "what really happened" between us.....

If you read this EA, well, good luck to you too, I guess. I am looking for real people who aren't gonna be "testing" me like this. I already know that I can be naive. But I will never give up on having a fundamental faith in the goodness of people. If this means I will always be vulnerable to being taken advantage of, so be it. I'd rather get taken for a ride once in a while than always be bitter and cynical and never trust anyone.

Say someone breaks your heart, something all of us have been through at one time or another. We then have two choices. We can put up defenses and be wary of all strangers and acquaintances. Or we can say I am not gonna let the one lady get me so down on trusting all women. If I did that, if I put up too many defenses, then I could potentially be blocking out someone who might be my soulmate.

Entropian Ascendant wrote:I JUST TRIED TO POST THE MESSAGE BELOW ON YOUR BOARD BUT IT APPEARS YOU'VE BANNED ME.

SO BE IT, BUT MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS. IT MIGHT SAVE YOUR ARSE YOU F****** TWAT.

Hi dudes.

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to expand on your respective positions regarding my presence on this board during my absence the last few days.

First I'd like to thank you, May, for your (by and large) thoughtful comments and observations. We'll continue to maintain an on-going healthy suspicion of each other I suspect, but that's the best we could ever hope for given the environment in which we find ourselves. My ego feels the need to point out that your assessment of my ignorance and naivete is mistaken, but perhaps I underestimated you a little too. So it goes.

This rest of this post is addressed primarily to Soc, so listen up. Please.

When I mentioned eugenics in that PM to you, you missed my point entirely - and there are a number of reasons why that's important (besides the fact that you shared the info with May without my permission). I'll address some of these points so bear with me, but first let me remind you that I am seriously concerned with what's going on up there. If you are too, then I am fundamentally NOT your enemy, and if you take the trouble to read and understand this msg properly you'll see that.

The fact is, it was a pre-meditated set-up mate. A con. A trap. A ruse. I make no apologies though, since I had to perform a little investigation in order to firm up your profile a bit. Not for my benefit but for yours. I wanted to teach you a lesson - and here it is.

What follows are somewhat re-edited excerpts of the msg I wrote immediately after compiling the eugenics pm. I hoped I'd never get the chance to send it, but I already knew you'd make me do it. For the record, the original plan was to pm you with it quietly if you "failed" my test, but since you chose to attack me in public it's only fair that I be allowed to return the "favour" (or favor, should you prefer). Don't worry though, I'll be nice and gentle. It's my nature. The spooks already knew that, but it seems you need to be told.

Regarding the pm I sent you earlier:

It hurt me to be deceitful and set you up, but it hurt me more when you reacted as you did. Why would I construct a situation like that? Could it be because I am a sado-masochistic psychopath or might it be because I thought it worth the investment of a little emotional energy to help my friend? Could it even be something else altogether? That's something you need to decide.

The thing is, I said I could "stand comfortably on both sides of the eugenics debate". There were other bits of embellishment in there to wrongfoot you still further psychologically, but essentially that's correct isn't it? The eugenics thing was the "biggie" - the word that prompted you to attack me?

Well, let's look at this a bit more closely. Voluntarily I offered you a piece of information. My instinct, if someone said something like that to me, would be to find out what it meant. I mean, BOTH sides? WTF does that mean? And why did the word comfortably appear in the same sentence? (I know why, but I'll bet you don't). And why did eugenics enter into our discussion anyway? Most odd. The point is, I would have got you to clarify if it were me. In one way or another I'd have sought answers to questions like:

Are you a psycho?
Is this a misdirection; designed to make me think that you are a psycho?
Could it be that you know something I don't?
Might I be able to help you see things my way?
Might I need to reconsider my position?
Could you be trying to provoke an irrational response from me?
Why did you use the word debate?
Just what IS your real position?

Of course, I wouldn't have been so dumb as to ask any of those things straight out, but one way or another I would have got the answers I required.

I could go on, but you probably get my drift. If not, here it is again. As a naturally inquisitive person, I would have have felt obliged to press on that spot, just to see what I could squeeze out (even if it might indeed turn out to be a spook/fake/mole/debunker/psychopath) - especially as up to that point I had gone to great lengths to appear rational and honest in your eyes.

See, if you'd have asked me how I could hold conflicting positions on a single issue I would have told you. You didn't, because you were more concerned to betray my confidence to May and condemn me as "sick" and a "chump". That's bad enough, but it's only one aspect of this lesson. The main one is making you aware of the fact that I was able to pull your chain so easily with my little scam - and here's why:

The real answer is none of the above in fact. Remember I said I used to teach? Well, as part of that role I sometimes managed role-play debates between students who (in order to meet the requirements of the syllabus), HAD to discuss such things - and for me to do that, I had to know more about the topic than anyone else in the room. That's all. In terms of our discussion the issue itself was irrelevant, but it served my purpose perfectly. The point is, not only did your knee-jerk reaction ensure you learned absolutely nothing but it also threatened a relationship with someone who probably had a good deal more to offer in support of your REAL cause.

Think about that - and don't waste hours telling me how my doing all this might not have been designed to serve your best interests. I didn't do this to hurt you my friend, but I knew damn well you'd rush on in there. I taught you a lesson (several actually) - the most important being that if I can recognize and exploit a weakness that easily, others far more talented than I will do so too. And I bet they won't come back and give you a debrief like I just did!

Power to you guys. You've put some great links my way.

Take care.

Mr. Smug up here...is known elsewhere as "Entropian Artifact"

Someone around here DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW THIS

coun•cil (koun'sul). n. An assembly of persons called together for consultation, deliberation, or discussion.

Small Wars Council is the Warriors' Council for those engaged in the practice of Small Wars. Warrior in this sense is not a military term -- successful conduct of Small Wars requires consideration and coordination across the many elements of power. We are an equal opportunity site, painfully aware that we must transcend individual services, and the military in general, to take a multi-disciplinary, international, multi-cultural look at the challenges of prosecuting Small Wars in the 21st Century.

Wed Jul 11, 2007

Astroturfing is a major problem. It is happening all over the internet. At The Democratic Underground, there is a section called September 11th. What it really should be called is "Tinfoil Conspiracy Theories Make Democratics Look Kooky." But when one looks at the major conspiracy theory websites, one finds that they are run by right wingers. Rense, Prison Planet, and What Really Happened are all operated by conservatives. Sure, they try real hard to attract progressives to their websites. They do this by insidously covering up the conservative nature of their politics.

The Democratic Underground is a joke. It is run in such a way that makes one believe that it might be part of Operation Mockingbird, that it is dominated by alphabet groups schooled in obfuscation, disinformation, and ad hominem attacks. There are two sets of rules there. If one is a "debunker," they can be as rude as they want. If someone is a "truthseeker," they better watch their step, or else they can be expected to be "tombstoned."

This implies that there is something very insidious about The Democratic Underground. Their moderating just doesn't pass the stink test. I found one thread on the internet where this specific topic has been covered. If someone doubts what I have just written, they should go to that Sept. 11th section, and read through some threads objectively. They should look at what the "debunkers" write. Then they might wonder why some people "are more equal than others."

My mind keeps boggling then boggling some more, seeing the threads posting what has become the normal state of DU.

It seems to me that the oppressive atmosphere started really hitting home very soon after the November elections, and got me wondering if the attitude is just the smug gloating of a winning political board or something more sinister.

The road-downhill started before this, but IMO it has intensified greatly in the past two months. Anyone have any thoughts on this? When DU changed?

While your at it, drag out some tinfoil and speculate of other possible reasons for the change.

With the number of posters here at IP posting links to DU threads, the admins must surely have noticed the increase in referrals from this site. I'm not sure what to make of this, but maybe Skinner et al are cleaning house, building a base for political ambition. Who knows what their aims are?

half way down the thread notice how the poster with a 7 in his name asks the OP "do you think Skinner is a paid fake?" because Skinner says that chem trails are "kooky". Then he comes up with a post by skinner that says chemtrails are "kooky". Watch the op back down and apologize because they don't want to get banned. What a horrible, horrible forum
(Sorry mods for another DU thread, but that place is so bad)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gravel#Barnes_Review_controversy

Barnes Review controversy

In June 2003 Gravel gave a speech on direct democracy at a conference hosted by the American Free Press. The event was cosponsored by the Barnes Review, a journal that endorses Holocaust denial.<19> Gravel has said repeatedly that he does not share such a view, stating "You better believe I know that six million Jews were killed. I've been to the Holocaust Museum. I've seen the footage of General Eisenhower touring one of the camps. They're nutty as loons if they don't think it happened". The newspaper had intended to interview Gravel about the National Initiative. Senator Gravel recounts the background to the event:

"He liked the idea of the National Initiative. I figured it was an opportunity to discuss it. Whether it is the far right, far left, whatever, I'll make my pitch to them. They gave me a free subscription to American Free Press. They still send it to me today. I flip through it sometimes. It has some extreme views, and a lot of the ads in it are even more extreme and make me want to upchuck. Anyways, sometime later, Carto contacted me to speak at that Barnes Review Conference. I had never heard of the Barnes Review, didn't know anything about it or what they stood for. I was just coming to give a presentation about the National Initiative. I was there maybe 30 minutes. I could tell from the people in the room (mainly some very old men) that they were pretty extreme. I gave my speech, answered some questions and left. I never saw the agenda for the day or listened to any of the other presentations."<20>

Why is it so many 9/11 troothers get mixed up with rabid anti-Semites, and historical revisionists?

Sounds to me like he is a looser that got lucky with the Pentagon Papers. Now there's a new CT in town and he is trying to relive his glory day.

I just did a WHOIS search on "What Really Happened" (not the CENsored forum, but Mike Rivero's site). Though Mike lives in Hawaii, the contact is someone named Matt Rivero with a PO box in New Hampshire. I assume there's a good explanation. If anyone has it, please fill us in.

Domain Name: WHATREALLYHAPPENED.COM
Registrar: INTERCOSMOS MEDIA GROUP, INC. D/B/A DIRECTNIC.COM
Whois Server: whois.directnic.com
Referral URL: directnic.com
Name Server: NS0.DIRECTNIC.COM
Name Server: NS1.DIRECTNIC.COM
Status: ok
Updated Date: 27-nov-2006
Creation Date: 11-oct-1999
Expiration Date: 11-oct-2009

>>> Last update of whois database: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 04:04:06 UTC <<<

Here's more:

Registrant:
whatreallyhappened.com
P.O. Box 534
Concord, NH 03302-0534
US
(603) 513-1818


Domain Name: WHATREALLYHAPPENED.COM

Administrative Contact:
Rivero, Matt domains@whatreallyhappened.com
P.O. Box 534
Concord, NH 03302-0534
US
(603) 513-1818

Technical Contact:
Rivero, Matt domains@whatreallyhappened.com
P.O. Box 534
Concord, NH 03302-0534
US
(603) 513-1818

Record last updated 11-27-2006 10:30:03 AM
Record expires on 10-11-2009
Record created on 10-11-1999

Domain servers in listed order:
NS0.DIRECTNIC.COM 69.46.233.245
NS1.DIRECTNIC.COM 69.46.234.245

whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=whatreallyhappened&tld=com



Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 subject: Samoa?

Is WHOIS a reputable site? On an impulse, I just did a WHOIS on this site, and got a really weird result. I don't know what to make of it.

Domain Name: ALLAIRCRAFTARENOTINVOLVED.COM

Registrant [344946]:
Domain Park Limited
Vaea Street
Level 2, Lotemau Centre
Apia
Samoa
0815
WS


Administrative Contact [344946]:
hostmaster hostmaster hostmaster@domainparkltd.com
Domain Park Limited
Vaea Street
Level 2, Lotemau Centre
Apia
Samoa
0815
WS
Phone: +1.2676535381


Billing Contact [344946]:
hostmaster hostmaster hostmaster@domainparkltd.com
Domain Park Limited
Vaea Street
Level 2, Lotemau Centre
Apia
Samoa
0815
WS
Phone: +1.2676535381


Technical Contact [344946]:
hostmaster hostmaster hostmaster@domainparkltd.com
Domain Park Limited
Vaea Street
Level 2, Lotemau Centre
Apia
Samoa
0815
WS
Phone: +1.2676535381


Domain servers in listed order:

PNS1.TRELLIAN.COM
PNS2.TRELLIAN.COM 209.132.99.10

Record created on: 2007-06-27 17:55:57.0
Database last updated on: 2007-06-27 17:55:56.683
Domain Expires on: 2008-06-27 17:55:57.0

whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=allaircraftarenotinvolved&tld=com


Socrates, please don't get me wrong. I'm not questioning your credibility. Like I've said before, you're the only person on the net that I currently trust. I still do. But this Samoa thing has thrown me off balance a little. So what do you think's up with this?

And if WHOIS screwed up with your site, do you think they might have screwed up with Rivero's site too?

take it easy,


may41970

Hey Chief, I am a newbie with computer stuff like this. But it was one of those holocaust deniers at the wrh "unofficial" forum who called this place allaircraftarenotinvolved.com, not me.

This is a basic free forum with no ads provided by freeforums.org. So I am not sure why someone in Samoa has parked that domain name. I have read before about people parking names, then hoping to sell it at some point. But maybe people also do that for other reasons, say like web users get a website wrong in a certain, consistent way, then those folks get redirected to those ads or whatever. I am a newbie with this type of thing, so that's all I got on that one. I did register this url with yahoo and google the other day on your advice, not sure if that is the reason. It's one or the other, or some psyopsters messing with us. The key is to ignore them. Or better yet, the key is to treat the troll in the third person. There is no reason to interact with these entities unless you are into doing a reverse troll operation. I did that once. I went to DBS and signed up as Jeff Reynolds to troll Jay Reynolds.

But back to Rivero. There are all these internet personalities that seem to pop up and gain prominence. They have flashy websites. They seem to be able to get interviews and make contact with the other "personalities." This is why I am done putting faith into any of them. You never know when the person you link to is gonna end up making you look like a nutjob, Hello swampgas, Lou Aubuchont, and Halva. Hello Fintan Dunne and Tom Flocco.

It should really be about the ideas, the facts, the internet shouldn't be about personalities we end up having to make character decisions on.

Now I have enough on my table. I can only do what I do. Now here is a link to a Phil Jayhan thread on "Matt Rivero." I just don't have the time to figure out this guy's website. But maybe this will help you see that it isn't whois that is messing with anyone. I'll also throw up some other links I've come across. Maybe they can help you. But in short, this just isn't my cup of tea, in that I really don't have the computer background to know what a lot of these types of searches and info mean.

Anyone, PLEASE GET me THIS INFORMATION ASAP!

WRH

I found one link between Matt Rivero and Mike Rivero, and this was via a letter to WRH:

letters-scroll down

READER: Hey Michael,

Thought this was worth a giggle.Ny Post calls you Matt Rivero.

nypost.com/seven/03222007/gossip/pagesix/pagesix.htm

Excerpt:
"Meanwhile, on her blog, O'Donnell has pasted in a widely debunked rundown of the collapse of 7 World Trade Center from the whatreallyhappened.com Web site, created by conspiracy theorist Matt Rivero. O'Donnell repeats his discredited theories, which include the notion that because the fires were not evenly distributed, it made the building's perfect collapse into its footprint "impossible that landlord Larry Silverstein told the FDNY that "the smartest thing to do is pull it," a phrase conspiracy theorists take to mean that he ordered the skyscraper's destruction; and that firefighters withdrawing from the building feared it was going to "blow up."

WRH: Yeah, thyat was kind of funny. It proved the Page Six people had not ecven looked at my website before bashing it, as my name is clearly visible at the top of the main page.

Maybe you want to send Matt, er Mike, a letter and ask him why he is listed as Matt Rivero. This could just be another stupid rabbithole. Anyway, as I've said before, this isn't my specialty to figure crap like this out. I am more concerned with figuring out where weather modification reports are kept.

There is an awful stench coming out of that "unofficial" forum. Thanks for putting up the good fight. I think it is a waste of time though. But the4 main thing is to always view them as a third person. These cretins don't debate fair. They are holocaust deniers. They make crap up. They come across as being insidious manipulators with agendas.


Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007

The WRH "unofficial" forum is a divide and conquer psy-op. I have been checking the place out here and there since may41970 started this thread "Gov't Shills over at WRH Unofficial Messageboard" over at Tinfoil Central.

Yesterday, he pm'ed me to check out the poster named "Thuban" who was sounding like "Lou Aubuchont." For us chumps who have been reading at these boards, yes, a lot of these id's end up sounding very similar, it is next to impossible to prove that such and such is this and that.

Now we do know that "Tracker" at CTC was "Lou Aubuchont." The reason we know this is because it was made obvious by "Lou" himself. This was done so he could serve as a strawman for Jay Reynolds. "Jay" and "Lou" are part of the same make believe script. There are many id's involved in this scam. There is BroomStick aka Boomer Chick, Halva, Increase1776, Starman, Yaak/Cydoniaquest, Deborah, Chem11, Big Bunny, in fact, it is a pretty big cast.

Now A Rope Leash at the WRH "unofficial" forum certainly does sound just like Yaak/Cydoniaquest. Ender certainly sounds like Jay Reynolds with the sickening anti-Jewish twist.

So I checked out the thread he mentioned, and Thuban did sound very similar to "Aubuchont." The funny thing is that when I went back there today, the specific posts were gone.

alaskafreepress.com/msgboard/board/508

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER POSTS ON THIS

Submitted by REDDOT on Sat, 06/30/2007 - 21:36.

THREAD ?
They are not in the bin what happened to them where are they ????????????????????????????????????



good question, reddot

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 07/01/2007 - 00:30


i'm wondering the same thing. you and i argued a lot on this thread - but one thing we've both got in common is that we don't vote down posts. we both believe in free speech, even for our supposed enemies.

every single person that had their posts removed from this thread deserves an explanation from 86bush.

it's nice to finally agree with you on one thing, reddot. censorship sucks.

I have no respect for stormfront redneck types. I think there are some people in real life like this, but that "unofficial" forum reeks of being a disinfo palace. There might not be one useful idiot there. It could be filled to the brim with disinfo, misdirection, divide and conquer rubbish.

It's good cop, bad cop. If Rivero had a clue, he would take the link down. He would explain why his name is put down as Matt Rivero. There is a small group of honest posters on the internet. The truth will emerge. If he wants to keep that link up, fine, it will just mean he is heading closer to the Tom Flocco Institute for No Credibility.

Like I said earlier, that "unofficial" forum is hurting the Palestinian cause. People see the crap there, and then maybe they think Israel is just protecting herself from a world that seeks to ostracize everyone with Jewish blood.

We all bleed red. That website is evil. It's like when we say the chemtrail fake believers might as well be up in those planes spraying the skies. These creeps from the "unofficial" forum might as well be stepping on the toes of the Palestinian people. They are also making it more difficult for progressive Israeli elements to have more of a say in policy.

Look what happened to the Peaceniks after 9/11. Shrub and Cheney got a blank check to start the illegal wars, torture, and mayhem. You have asshat Holocaust deniers and outright racists there, and the psy-op ends up strengthening the position of the Israelis who are fascists.

Hey, earlier today we had ten people on line at once, and I wasn't one of them. The only problem is we could really use some kindred spirits signing up here to help the cause.


Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:11 pm
Post subject: Mike Rivero Doesn't Pass The Stink Test

I don't see how Rivero can justify still linking to that "unofficial" forum. It makes one wonder who this guy really is? I haven't, to be honest, been paying all that much attention to him over the years. Whenever I did read at his website, I couldn't help but notice his heavy bias towards demonizing Israel. I have written previously that the Israeli government has taken a really bad turn since Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli wingnut determined to stymie the mideast peace process. But since this thread now has 700 views, maybe we should shoot for 1000. What do you say, May41970?

So I went to the googler and starting looking for more dirt on Mike Rivero. I thought I might be able to find a bit here, or there, but the irony is that this story has already been revealed. It turns out Rivero is a freeper wingnut at best, a deliberate disinfo peddler at worst.

Mike Rivero used to be a prolific poster at The Free Republic, the redneck website. It turns out that Rivero was a big advocate for Bill Clinton being impeached. I never realized what a fruitcake of a past he has had, until just now I put a bit of time in. I find it shocking how something clear cut like this isn't well known. Did you know this May41970?

Here's a Free Republic thread with 324 posts. I don't suggest going to this link unless someone really wants to. I only am posting it to show that Mike Rivero used to be a major poster at The Free Republic. Wow. That's just crazy. This explains a lot right away about the stench coming out of his website and the "unofficial" forum.

Michael Rivero’s Subterfuge

{excerpts}

As an old time FReeper, I regard Michael Rivero to be one of the most interesting posters to ever post to Free Republic. I always looked for his threads and valued them greatly as they always challenged me to think a bit harder and deeper about unfolding events, and to question the official truth. Consequently, I regard his banishment and the nuking of his collective contributions to Free Republic to be a tragic loss, not only to this forum, but to our nation -- a nation which needs more than ever to be challenged to question the official "truth" and THINK. All of you who have joined the mob on this thread in mindlessly attacking Michael Rivero disgust me.......


Well Michael Rivero has become nothing more than a peddler of propaganda. I find you[r] defense to [be] shameless. Clearly my examining my thread you can see how he used a doctored picture and attributed it to the bin Laden tape. I posted an actual picture from the ABC web site. He is like Johnny Walker. Once an American and now a traitor. I haven’t a regret about him being banished.......

Who is Michael Rivero? Better yet, who cares? ......

I did find one thread Rivero actually posted on. Here it is.

If you click on his user name, it says his account has been suspended or banned. So it looks like anyone who wants to track down his freeper quotes will have to work hard to find them.



Blue's News: News Comments

posted by indiv:

"Regardless of the news sources on the "WhatReallyHappened(Inmyparanoidmind)", the small quotes to the side of each story show a propensity for the webmaster there to get a tad anti-semitic. Is he based somewhere in Montana or Waco Texas?"



Funny you should ask that question. The guy in charge of that conspiracy site is Michael Rivero, btw.

A reader emailed me some material on Michael Rivero that had previously been posted on both Free Republic and Indymedia. One item in particular caught my eye, and that is Rivero’s relationship with something called the Special Forces Underground, an anti-Communist, anti-Jewish, white-supremacy group run by retired Green Beret Steven Barry. Rivero maintained copies of the group’s newsletter, The Resister, on his old, now defunct, website, The Rancho Runnamukka (see email dated April 6, 1998)

His response when confronted with this issue is interesting:

In point of fact I was never an editor for the Resister. I merely posted the newsletter as received. And, as onorous (sic) as the statement "created by white men for white men" may be to modern sensibilitirs (sic), that was in fact the philosophy of the foubnders (sic) of the nation, as evidenced by their treatment of the natives.

This info (and a little more I omitted) under the heading Mikey update:
ombudsgod.blogspot.com/2002_12_01_ombudsgod_archive.html

Ha, that's just like when Rivero says he doesn't know what is going on at the "unofficial" WRH forum. Good cop/ bad cop anyone?





Here's a website that Rivero used to operate.

whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/index.html


Here are some of the banners:



whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/abhore.gif


There's no "e" in abhor, and I'm not trying to be the spelling police, but there is a pattern to his lousy spelling, kind of like how Aubuchont does it. It's a transparent attempt to connect with the average Joe.




whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/wnd.turbulent.468x60.gif


So he hated Bill Clinton, posted at Free Republic, and linked to World Nut Daily. Not a good resume. I'm not saying that Bill Clinton wasn't an asshat elitist, he was, is one. But at least he didn't tank the economy and start such outrageous illegal wars, commit widespread torture and illegal wiretapping, suspend habeus corpus, etc..




Here's one more link that people interested in this topic might want to look at. I personally have seen enough to make my own decision.

It's not just Google

Comments by John Davis

It is scary. In my younger days (the 50s and 60s)there was a fruitcake organization called the John Birch Society that saw government conspiracies everywhere, but it was the communists not the Zionists, Israel, the neo-conservatives, or GWB who were behind them. Very few people heard of the Birchers back then because about their only means of publicity were pamphlets, flyers, and a few billboards. Unlike some "nut" sites today, they only appealed to people on the far, far, far right.

Now, thanks primarily to the Internet, every crackpot in the world has access to a worldwide forum. And, they seem to be gaining an audience that one would think would know better, and not just Yahoo. Antonia Zerbias once called whatreallyhappened -- a site that attracts nuts from both ends of the spectrum -- a legitimate news source; an English prof (Byron Hawk) at George Mason University has a blog that links to WRH; and some political science professor (don't recall her name)in North Carolina has a course on the evil U.S. that has as one of its "texts" rense.com,a web site that supports every conspiracy theory ever known to man.

How anyone can think that Michael Rivero (of WRH), Alex Jones of infowars.com, Jeff Rense, and others of their ilk, as "legitimate" news sources is beyond belief. I, along with Zach Cohen and Chris Morris, used to debunk these groups and others on a site, now defunct, called Exposing the Exposer. It was not hard to do.....



Dara:

I actually agree with some of your comments concerning Rivero up to a point. He has brought up a few topics -- voting irregularities here in the States, TWA Flight 800, etc. -- that are worthy of discussion. And, he does link to some legitimate news sources that offer a different point of view.

However, IMHO, his linking of such topics to a "grand conspiracy", his anti-Semitism, and his dismissing of those who disagree with him as shills or government agents makes it impossible for me to accept him as a serious source of information.....

There are two other aspects to this that I somehow forgot to include in the previous post.

1) Mike Rivero thinks he is the be all, end all in figuring out who is disinfo as regards to 9/11 truth. He is not alone. There are other "characters" who write the same things. Now I admit I am not a 9/11 truthseeker expert. There are certain things about it that stand out to me as anomalies. There are the ways the buildings fell, especially WTC7, which was hit by no planes. I wonder where the black boxes are. I wonder about the anomalous put options placed on the airline stocks right before the sad events of that day took place. I wonder about the lady from New Jersey who was being investigated for supplying fake id's for highjackers, how she mysteriously died. There is plenty more that doesn't make sense. There is the White House Iraq Group which feverishly was looking for any way to invade Iraq. There is even the question Michael Moore had about how all the Bin Ladens were flown out of America when there wasn't supposed to be any air travel at all during those days after.

So yes, I am not a 9/11 truthseeker expert. I am openminded. No, I do not want to hear about pods or holograms or anything else that sounds too zany. Perhaps those ideas were introduced by astroturfers allowing someone like a Rivero to easily debunk them. Now, it is kind of funny how Rivero has lumped the no plane at the Pentagon idea with holograms and crazy stuff like that. My feeling about the Pentagon is that there are some questions about it that don't seem too far-fetched. Is the whole too small for the plane that is said to have hit it? Why do people talk about a Penta-Lawn? Where are the videotapes? Why did "they" make a big to do out of releasing that one videotape when it showed absolutely nothing conclusive. Where are all the videos. Surely there must be one that shows exactly what hit the place. How were the "terrorists" able to fly the plane so low to the ground at 500 mph? What about the NORAD stand downs?

I will just trust that others out there in the world will be able to figure such things out. This is why we have to work together as sincere, honest people. We can't be everywhere, and we can't know everything.

But Mike Rivero sure seems to think he has all the answers. It makes one wonder why Mr. Freeper would throw the No Plane at the Pentagon folks so harshly under the bus. I take it that this is a plausible idea, that a missile or smaller plane could have been hurled into the Pentagon. It might not be the best evidence or be what the 9/11 truthers should focus on, but for the purposes of this thread, I am curious why Rivero was so quick to lump the no-plane folks with the hologram and other obviously outrageous theories.


Rivero-wrh Losse Stools, 911CaseStudy Stupidity

UnderTow:
I don't buy my ink by the barrel, nor can I clone myself to cover all the stupid blogs all over the internet. But I have noticed a distinct uptick in the mentions that 911 Case Study (youtube) has recieved.

And once again WRH ignores (or missed) my emails and postings.

Rivero/WRH: Flight 77 Simulation Demolishes Lunatic 9/11 Theory
This still won't convince the moonbats. Then again, it's not a matter of convincing them. They know what they're putting out is nonsense - they just hope you don't.
Posted Sep 22, 2006 07:00 AM PST
Category: 911

I have said it from the beginning and will continue to maintain that the whole "No plane" theory, along with that of "pods" on the WTC planes, is deliberate government-planted disinformation intended to give the mainstream media (like Popular Mechanics) an easy tool with which to dismiss all the doubts regarding the official story of 9-11.

Note to WRH and everyone:

NTSB Data and Simulation Destroy "Case Study" Flight Simulation



Merc: Yeah Rivero is a divisive disappointment. Calling us moonbats. He should have got off his ass and went out there like we did to prove we're "moonbats".

Cary: Yes, this is disappointing. I love WRH and can't understand why Rivero insists on dismissing the evidence that no 757/767 hit the Pentagon. Oh well.

Johndoex: What is WRH?

And does he realize that the FDR doesnt provide FACTS on a no plane thoery? It just shows (factually) that AA77 didnt hit the light poles.


Someone needs to wake this guy up.


painter: MR has been against the NPAP story from day 1. It has always been his position. Nothing new. However, he probably is NOT familiar with JDX's analysis of the data.

EDIT: WRH = What Really Happened; MR = Michael Rivero; NPAP = No Plane At Pentagon; JDX - JohnDoeX; etc.

UnderTow: Except, I went to him with my NTSB data before I even came here.
And afterward as we started to do the initial work.

I never got a reply or anything.

Anyway. When it comes to 9/11 I'm a little sick of his knee-jerk spamming of the issue.

painter: I stopped reading his site when he ridiculed the NPAP after "Find the Bowing" became known. I believe he believes there were real hijackers, that they were agents, but nevertheless real. This is a fall-back position that leaves open the possibility of MOSAD control of the operation. I believe the NPAP theory leads to the conclusion of military involvement and control.

Yeah Mike Rivero, just say it, just say that you think it was Mossad and "The Evil Jews" who perpetrated 9/11. Oh, that's what the "unofficial" WRH forum is for. The one you link to on your front page. The one you say you have no idea about what goes on there.






But that is not all. I also stumbled across something else which questions Rivero's credibility. I'll just copy and paste a bit, provide three more links. Rivero being a Freeper kind of explained it all for me. I believe there are more important things in life than thinking about Rivero and his divide and conquer/ strawman cover-up astroturfing, like stopping illegal wars, the aerosol operations, etc.. But it seems this is a popular topic for the readers, and as that great philosopher Joe Dirt once said, "it's all about the consumer."






Research on: whatreallyhappened.com

Devvy Kidd
January 19, 2003
devvy.com/200301221627.html

One my loyal readers sent me some research he did on the above captioned web site.

I receive literally a ton of information via e-mail every day and simply don't have the time or manpower to filter through it all.

I did, however, take the time to go through this research and decided to let you, the reader, make up your mind about this information because Mr. Jackson makes some very valid points.

January 16, 2003

Dear Devvy:

I'm not sure that many are aware, but there seems to be a Trojan among them there Conspiracies. Yes. What's the best way to control the hatching of conspiracies and how they proliferate? You own the market!

There's a website called What Really Happened, and it is supposedly run by a single individual with an interst in promoting "The Truth The Government Hopes You Don't Learn." This site has been one of the fastest growing sites on the Net in the last 2 years.

It has been called a "News" site, it's been called a "Conspiracy" site, and it's been called a conspiracy of conspiracies. This site, as a matter of content, hosts links to 3rd party news stories with a comment or two on each story from the "individual" that runs the site. I've heard it described as "Drudgereport with comments."

Recently, there's been a rash of finger pointing and charachter attacks
between an Internet pen name titled "S. Boyle", the individual that runs the What Really Happened Site, and a site called Bank Index, which is owned and operated by PMC4, LLC.

You can read the initial article by S. Boyle, here:
link

In this article, S. Boyle comes to a number of conclusions, of which some are verifiable and true while others are completely false. What was immediatly pounced upon by "The Staff @ Bankindex.com", though, was a major leap of logic that could not be substantiated, and was not true. S. Boyle revealed a number of things in his article, but he made the mistake of assuming Dandelion Books was part of PMC4 holdings.

I will clarify a few things:

1) What Really Happens is run by a guy named Michael Rivero.
bankindex.com/wrh

2) Bank Index is owned by PMC4, LLC.
bankindex.com/company/aboutus.asp

3) GoOff is owned by PMC4, LLC.
link

4) Dandelion Books was started in November 2000 by Carol Adler who is the
CEO.
link

Here's a solicitation by Alder (Letter with Subject of "Books", 2/3rds down
the page:
link

5) GoOff.com is the "Bookstore" and Affiliate "Hub" for Dandelion Books.
link

7) GreatDominion.com Inc. is the founding partner of the PMC4, LLC family.
greatdominion.com/partnering.asp

8. GreatDominion.com Inc. Lists the following projects on it's website:
greatdominion.com/projects.asp

Internet Service Providers
Genetic Information
Casinos, Gambling and Games
Art Exchange
Banking and Finance
Modeling and Fashions
Movies

9) Michael Rivero has done two interviews - One with GoOff - and the other with Bank Index - Both owned by PMC4.
bankindex.com/wrh
gooff.com/news/read.asp?ID=1543

10) Dandelion Books is a subsidiary of Dandelion Enterprises, Inc.
link

11) Dandelion Enterprises, Inc. also has a self-publishing division, Tiger
Maple Press.
link

12) Bank Index, some point after 9/11, changed the type of stories it
released in the "Today's Top Headlines" section.

Here it is just after 9/11:
web.archive.org/web/20010730213505/www.bankindex.com/morenews.asp

Here is it today:

bankindex.com/morenews.asp

13) What Really Happened went through a major change after 9/11:

Before:

web.archive.org/web/20010811101507/http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/index.html

After:

web.archive.org/web/20010920045155/http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

I hope I've made the above relationships clear. One thing that I have not made clear, though, is the relationship between the What Really Happened website and the other parties mentioned. I have no solid proof that the owner of What Really Happened works with or for PMC4 or any of it's holdings, but I can say that they work closely.

1) Sometime in 2002 Bank Index had a "Popup Ad" for the purchase of an album titled: "Isle Of Sanctuary" by Claire Rivero, Michael Rivero's wife.

2) The What Really Happened website links to Bank Index and Go Off articles almost on a daily basis.

3) A number of Mr. Rivero's articles have been posted on Bank Index.

4) Michael Rivero has a new book, titled "Cyber Soldiers And Silicon
Patriots: The New Face Of Political Dissent", published by Dandelion Books:
link

So, they are (or were) all working together at some point or other. The question is, is there an agenda? Would it be to control the types of conspiracies that are rumored on the 'Net? You be the judge.

S. Boyle has since posted conversation between himself and Bank Index, the outcome of which was supposed to be an apology/retraction of false statements:

groups.yahoo.com/group/whatreallyhappened/message/527

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In short, all of the sites and companies I have listed do in fact work with each other. GreatDominion.com Inc. seems to be the umbrella company to all of the other companies I've listed, except for Dandelion and What Really Happened. Dandelion just happens to be the publisher of the books written by conspiracy theorists, and What Really Happened seems to drive an awful lot of traffic to those two sites.

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An interesting comment made by one reader:

sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1549211_comment.php#1549267

"Rivero, What Really Happened, Go off, Dandelion, Gordon Thomas are essentially all part of an inbred and incestuous network of Right Wing propagandists and disinformation artists."

"They included not only the standard Hard Right outlets like Newsmax but also Christian Fascist moupieces like Dandelion."

"Their political function and agenda in general is to act as a phony opposition or Trojan Horse media specifically targetted towards those people who question the official story. If you study the disinformation put out by these propagandists, you will see a similar pattern in that they question the official story or version of events--only to carefully spin the issue in a way which just so happens to reinforce their own Right Wing agendas and political campaigns."

"In particular with respect to 9-11, most of the sites have tried to seize upon obvious holes and lies in the official story about 9-11 in order to direct and deflect blame AWAY from the Bush Regime and American State in general towards some foreign bogeyman or patsy."

"The bottom line is that these pseudo-alternative media outlets set up by the Right Wing have the effect of being classic CIA style psyops operations. They question the official story, only to steer and focus attention away from the more fascistic political factions which support the American military-corporate complex onto a suitable "enemy" foreign or domestic."

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The "Right Wing" may not have a darned thing to do with it, but still, an intersting insight.

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We all know that there are going to be people that question any official story. What better way to control the conspiracies than to setup "fake" alternative news outlets to push "fake" conspiracies? It would quench the thirst of most seeking that second opinion, but at the same time, confuse them while keeping the truth hidden.

Don't get me wrong, some of the links on whatreallyhappened.com are very good indeed. Others, though, seem to be opinions, almost forced onto the reader, like the Israli Spy ring, and the daily harping on Israel. All three sites (What Really Happened, Bank Index, and GoOff) all seem to be promoting NO WAR, Government in Debt, Peace Rallies, the Government cannot be trusted, and the coming of a revolution.

Some of these things may be true, but the promoters of the ideas from these sites don't offer solutions, and don't seem to participate in public dissent. They would rather cause dissent from behind thier cushy web sites. They seem to want to promote the mindset that you can only get the truth from reading thier websites and/or articles and/or books. Simply not true.

BTW, Rivero's still promoting that Mr. Tom Kenney was indeed in NY prior to
9/11: whatreallyhappened.com/fematape.html

Related links:
What Really Happens at whatreallyhappened.com?
The other side of the "What Really Happens" story
WORLD EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW TO GoOFF!COM WITH MICHAEL RIVERO



Right Wing Media=Propaganda

I realise that there are left gatekeepers as well, but Mike Rivero appears to be a divide and conquer disinfo pimp who has been groomed for his position and that flashy website since at least the late 1990s.

Funny how so many of the links from the above post no longer work. Maybe some way-back machine or caches can be found to back up the claims that Rivero is heavily tied in with right wing disinfo groups and their publications.