Astroturfing Is Not Just About Pushing Products

manufactured grassroots, disinfo, and insidious marketing
Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 29 Jan 2008, 21:57 #1

Common sense tells us that seedy parts of the government are all over the internet sticking their dirty paws into every forum and blog they can get into. Hal Turner, Mike Rivero, Mark Steadham, Tinoire, Jeff Wells, Fintan Dunne et al are just the tip of the iceberg as regards to fakery on the internet. People are naive if they don't think there are fake posts being made everywhere. How many Lou Aubuchonts and Hal Turners are there? What percentage of posts made at any given place are made by sincere, honest individuals not getting paid? I am starting to think most forums and websites with room for comments are infested with anywhere between 20% to 98% of fakes with paid agendas.

{educational purposes}
US unleashes six bloggers in assault on Islamist propaganda

And if that doesn't work, Second Life may also be enlisted

Dan Goodin
15th November 2007
The US government is turning to blogs and possibly to the virtual wasteland known as Second Life to step up its faltering information war against Islamist extremists. But critics remain unimpressed, saying the measures aren't enough to counter a massive internet campaign that spreads pro-terrorist messages to people in Islamic countries.

On Thursday, Duncan MacInnes, of the State Department's bureau of international information programs, told a congressional subcommittee that government spinmeisters are on the case. In the last year, they've launched a digital outreach team, which employs Arabic speakers to challenge anti-American misrepresentations on influential Arabic-language blogs and other places in cyberspace.

"We are currently in the process of expanding the original team of two Arabic bloggers to six, while also adding one Urdu and two Farsi (Persian) linguists," MacInnes said in prepared remarks (PDF here) submitted to the House Armed Services Committee's panel of terrorism. "We are also exploring how we can use the applicability of our mission of new cyber-technologies such as Second Life and cell phone games to further advance our mission."

He said an Arabic website used to counter violent extremism attracts more than 200,000 visitors per month from countries including Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and Morocco. A separate Persian site, he said, "has been highly successful," averaging 42,000 users per week.

Critics include US Representative and chair of the terrorism subcommittee Adam Smith, who is less than impressed with the State Department's tepid response to the extremist propaganda.

"My sense after the hearing remains that we are not adequately resourcing our online activities, both in terms of funding and in terms of giving the people on the front lines authority to act outside of a lengthy bureaucratic review process," he wrote in this comment on Wired News. "We're also not doing enough to reach out to online communities and bloggers based here in the US to get the benefit of their expertise."

Smith was largely echoing the sentiments of Wired News writer Noah Shachtman, who previewed the hearing.

"Ummmm.... Two bloggers, and 200,000 visitors - that's kind of small potatoes, right?" Shachtman wrote. Grass roots efforts to seed pro-US sentiments would be more successful if the 180,000 American troops stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan were encouraged to blog about their experiences, he argued.

Alas, US army regulations require all soldiers to get a supervisor's approval before posting information in a public forum. ®

23 comments posted — Comment period finished

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 02 Feb 2008, 00:02 #2

Journalists, bloggers are threats in terror drill
Associated Press
Published: Thursday January 31, 2008
It's the government's idea of a really bad day: Washington's Metro trains shut down. Seaport computers in New York go dark. Bloggers reveal locations of railcars with hazardous materials. Airport control towers are disrupted in Philadelphia and Chicago. Overseas, a mysterious liquid is found on London's subway.

And that's just for starters.

Those incidents were among dozens of detailed, mock disasters confronting officials rapid-fire in the U.S. government's biggest-ever "Cyber Storm" war game, according to hundreds of pages of heavily censored files obtained by The Associated Press. The Homeland Security Department ran the exercise to test the nation's hacker defenses, with help from the State Department, Pentagon, Justice Department, CIA, National Security Agency and others.

The laundry list of fictional catastrophes — which include hundreds of people on "No Fly" lists suddenly arriving at airport ticket counters — is significant because it suggests what kind of real-world trouble keeps people in the White House awake at night.

Imagined villains include hackers, bloggers and even reporters. After mock electronic attacks overwhelmed computers at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, an unspecified "major news network" airing reports about the attackers refused to reveal its sources to the government. Other simulated reporters were duped into spreading "believable but misleading" information that worsened fallout by confusing the public and financial markets, according to the government's files.

The $3 million, invitation-only war game simulated what the U.S. described as plausible attacks over five days in February 2006 against the technology industry, transportation lines and energy utilities by anti-globalization hackers. The government is organizing another multimillion-dollar war game, Cyber Storm 2, to take place in early March.

"They point out where your expectations of your capabilities may be overstated," Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff told the AP. "They may reveal to you things you haven't thought about. It's a good way of testing that you're going to do the job the way you think you were. It's the difference between doing drills and doing a scrimmage."

The AP obtained the Cyber Storm internal records nearly two years after it requested them under the Freedom of Information Act. The government censored most of the 328 pages it turned over, marked "For Official Use Only," citing rules preventing the disclosure of sensitive information.

"Definitely a challenging scenario," said Scott C. Algeier, who runs a cyber-defense group for leading technology companies, the Information Technology Information Sharing and Analysis Center.

For the participants — including government officials from the United States, England, Canada, Australia and New Zealand and executives from leading technology and transportation companies — the mock disasters came fast and furious: Hacker break-ins at an airline; stolen commercial software blueprints; problems with satellite navigation systems; trouble with police radios in Montana; school closures in Washington, Miami and New York; computer failures at border checkpoints.

The incidents were divided among categories: computer attacks, physical attacks or psychological operations.

"We want to stress these players," said Jeffrey Wright, the former Cyber Storm director for the Homeland Security Department. "None of the players took 100 percent of the correct, right actions. If they had, we wouldn't have done our job as planners."

How did they do? Reviews were mixed. Companies and governments worked successfully in some cases.

But key players didn't understand the role of the premier U.S. organization responsible for fending off major cyber attacks, called the National Cyber Response Coordination Group, and it didn't have enough technical experts.

Also, the sheer number of mock attacks complicated defensive efforts.

The little-known Cyber Response group, headed by the departments of Justice and Homeland Security, represents the largest U.S. government departments — including law enforcement and intelligence agencies — and is the principal organization for responding to cyber attacks and recovering from them.

The exercise had no impact on the real Internet. Officials said they were careful to simulate attacks only using isolated computers, working from basement offices at the Secret Service's headquarters in downtown Washington.

However, the government's files hint at a tantalizing mystery: In the middle of the war game, someone quietly attacked the very computers used to conduct the exercise. Perplexed organizers traced the incident to overzealous players and sent everyone an urgent e-mail marked "IMPORTANT!" reminding them not to probe or attack the game computers.

"Any time you get a group of (information technology) experts together, there's always a desire, 'Let's show them what we can do,'" said George Foresman, a former senior Homeland Security official who oversaw Cyber Storm. "Whether its intent was embarrassment or a prank, we had to temper the enthusiasm of the players."

This video is from The Associated Press, broadcast January 31, 2008.

{video available at the RawStory link}


Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 02 Feb 2008, 21:33 #3

Very odd. Makes one wonder if this has to do with the "Cyber Storm" story referenced above.
New cable cut compounds net woes
BBC News
1 February 2008
A submarine cable in the Middle East has been snapped, adding to global net problems caused by breaks in two lines under the Mediterranean on Wednesday.

The Falcon cable, owned by a firm which operates another damaged cable, led to a "critical" telecom breakdown, according to one local official.

The cause of the latest break has not been confirmed but a repair ship has been deployed, said owner Flag Telecom.

The earlier break disrupted service in Egypt, the Middle East and India.

"The situation is critical for us in terms of congestion," Omar Sultan, chief executive of Dubai's ISP DU, told The Associated Press, following the most recent break.

Wednesday's incident caused disruption to 70% of the nationwide internet network in Egypt on Wednesday, while India suffered up to 60% disruption.

Flag Telecom said a repair ship was expected to arrive at the site of the first break - 8.3km from Alexandria in Egypt - on 5 February, with repair work expected to take a week.

A repair ship deployed to the second break - 56km from Dubai - was expected to arrive at the site in the "next few days", the firm said.

Web returns

The first cable - the Fiber-Optic Link Around the Globe (FLAG) - was cut at 0800 on 30 January, the firm said.

A second cable thought to lie alongside it - SEA-ME-WE 4, or the South East Asia-Middle East-West Europe 4 cable - was also split.

FLAG is a 28,000km (17,400 mile) long submarine communications cable that links Australia and Japan with Europe via India and the Middle East.

SEA-ME-WE 4 is a submarine cable linking South East Asia to Europe via the Indian subcontinent and the Middle East.

The two cable cuts meant that the only cable in service connecting Europe to the Middle East via Egypt was the older Sea-M-We 3 system, according to research firm TeleGeography.

The firm said the cuts reduced the amount of available capacity on the stretch of network between India and Europe by 75% percent.

As a result, carriers in Egypt and the Middle East re-routed their European traffic around the globe, through South East Asia and across the Pacific and Atlantic oceans.

The cause of the break has still not been confirmed. The third break is unlikely to disrupt commerce in the region as many business are closed on Fridays.

Initial reports suggested that it could have been snapped by a ship's anchor.

Internet service providers said they expected India's to be back to about 80% of its usual speed by the end of Friday.

In Egypt Minister of Communications and Information Technology Tarek Kamil said he expected to be at the same capacity within two days.

"However, it's not before ten days until the internet service returns to its normal performance," Kamil told the state Al-Ahram newspaper.

1 Polyethylene cover
2,4 Stranded steel armour wires
3,5 Tar-soaked nylon yarn
6 Polycarbonate insulator
7 Copper sheath
8 Protective core
9 Optical fibres
Not to scale

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 28 Mar 2008, 21:28 #4

bluejersey wrote:ABC 7 Eyewitness News covers Kean campaign astroturfing on
ABC Catches Tom Kean Jr Lying

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 19 Apr 2008, 00:40 #5

There are a lot of strange things on the internet. Tinoire posing with Wolfowitz. Jeff Wells getting banned from Rigorous Intuition for voting racist in a poll. There is that whole Kelvin Mace bash Beverly Harris campaign. You have both Steven Hertzberg and Andy Stephenson doing interviews with "Fintan Dunne." You have that AnonymousArmy person at DailyKos who blabbed about BradBlog, Curtis, and the dog story. Who else wrote from that twisted angle? "Fintan Dunne."

You have Rivero having worked for McDonnell Douglas and NASA. Tinfoil webmaster Mark Steadham too has posted that he has worked with NASA.Tinoire has even admitted to having been in the military. Tinoire and Rivero host the other's logo at their respective websites. Tinoire is also tight with Jeff Wells, Wayne Madsen, and an exposed freeper, tinfoil troll named Seventhson. Jeff Wells has a moderator who was in the same position as Chemtrail Central.

At Democratic Underground there are so many smear threads attacking Bev Harris. Bev was "outed" by Fintan Dunne as being a "911 Rat." Now why were all those unsubstantiated attacks allowed to flourish at Democratic Underground? Why did Markos Zuniga of DailyKos put an end to research into the election fraud? Where has all this fake fighting between Clinto and Barrack come from? Why does it seem that so much is controlled on the internet, including the flow of the major "democratic" forums?

The Randi Rhodes forum gets scrubbed. There also seemed to be a strange purge there back in 2005.

There's someone named Ben Burch who bought just to redirect it to a place named Democratic Warrior.

It's really endless how many strange anomalies there are concerning the internet. A few of us became effective gadflies. I guess I wear it with a badge of honour that I got cybersmeared. It kind of proves that this place has done a bit of good.

The fake persuaders
Corporations are inventing people to rubbish their opponents on the internet

George Monbiot
Tuesday May 14, 2002
The Guardian

Persuasion works best when it's invisible. The most effective marketing worms its way into our consciousness, leaving intact the perception that we have reached our opinions and made our choices independently. As old as humankind itself, over the past few years this approach has been refined, with the help of the internet, into a technique called "viral marketing". Last month, the viruses appear to have murdered their host. One of the world's foremost scientific journals was persuaded to do something it had never done before, and retract a paper it had published.

While, in the past, companies have created fake citizens' groups to campaign in favour of trashing forests or polluting rivers, now they create fake citizens. Messages purporting to come from disinterested punters are planted on listservers at critical moments, disseminating misleading information in the hope of recruiting real people to the cause. Detective work by the campaigner Jonathan Matthews and the freelance journalist Andy Rowell shows how a PR firm contracted to the biotech company Monsanto appears to have played a crucial but invisible role in shaping scientific discourse....

People with internet experience understand what I've been trying to convey through my posts. Perhaps they have witnessed some of this firsthand. Or maybe they checked out any of a number of these stories for themselves. After a while it does become more difficult for the freepers to hide their true values. They are trying to balance producing "credibility" while tearing apart at the truth. The paid trolls do not want sincere people to work together. They want us frustrated and in emotional states.That is why they try to get control over every major forum on the net. They push the rules. They try to weasel their way into good peoples' forums, and then wait for the best time to try to hurt its image and potential. Other places seem to have been structured insidiously from the start.

So, a little bird tells me 6/7/06 is the date for the nuke war on Iran.

Ben Burch wrote:Actually several little birds all cheeped in with the same information. (Funny, no, that Ann Coulter's book is released the day before?)

Do you think it's likely?

I do.

The same little bird tells me that there will be a MAJOR crackdown on dissent near that date. Not on terrorism. On freedom of speech.

Do you think it's likely?

I do.

Do you intend to shut up to save your skin?

I don't.

Let them kill me first, if that is what is going to happen, because I wouldn't want to live in a world like that.

That was Rense-robot material. That was an attempt to take a built up username and spread the tinfoil nice and chunky.

It was disturbing to see that Andy Stephenson did the same exact thing. His source was none other than a prolific 9/11 tinfoil plant named Mike Vreeland.

Regarding Andy Stephenson, Bev Harris and Randi Rhodes
Must_B_Free wrote:
Here is what I recall:

Randi told Bev that Andy Stephenson was no longer working with her.

Bev was surprised to hear this.

Bev calls the directors who ALL jointly decide to nix Andy Stephenson.

Now Bev is the "sinner" according to David Allen who delights in holding up her "sin" for all to see and pass judgement.

Oh yeah and Andy Stephenson knows Delmart "Mike" Vreeland of 123 No Credibility Drive, Bullshitville USA. Says Vreeland called him from jail when he got arrested most recently.

Do I have that right?

Stephenson Admits To The Connection


From the same thread, you can see that he was "buddies" with "Jeff Wells."


Stephenson was in contact with Mike Vreeland? WTF?

Andy Stephenson: Did He Work For The Tinfoil Astroturfers? It looks Like It.


Seventhson was in the middle of this.


Seventhson's thread was titled "My Sources say Vreeland is a "Total Fraud" HOWEVER..."

His sources? This guy is buddies with Tinoire and Wells. On election night 2004, he admitted on Du that he was a freeper, and that it was nice to rub it in. He tried later to say his password was stolen. But anyone can look at his posting history from even before then and see that this person did not make Democratics look good.

But back to Andy Stephenson. Just to make this clear how he was fostering fear, here is one more.

FEMA Disaster Drill Set For Election Day.....SCARY

This is the domain from which the expired link was from:

At the bottom of the page, it reads:

Podcasting to the fringes, for the fringes.

Stephenson appears to have had the role of being the most respectable person to post tinfoil. He appears to have been in the script to smear the election integrity movement. I realise he isn't here to defend himself, and I 'm trying not to pass judgement. I think if he had lived, we would know better what his role was. But it doesn't look good that he did an interview with Fintan Dunne. I'm saying rest in peace, but a lot of this doesn't add up.

Stephenson Interviewed by Fintan Dunne

I think there has been this network of fake progressives out creating a lot of noise and rabbit holes. There is plenty of proof that this is the truth.

I think Navari/Hertzberg might have been AnonymousArmy. The link is there.

BradBlog needs to get his facts straight or dump this Dog of a Curtis story

Here's Fintan with the same story. Just scroll past the entry on internet Strawman Wayne Madsen to get to why "Fintan Dunne" thinks Brad Friedman is a CIA plant.

Here are some links on that Seventhson freeper fake progressive, the one who is buddies with Wells and Tinoire. None of these people are meant to have credibility. They are strawmen. What they were trying to do was the following:

*** Make progressives appear as gullible tinfoilers
*** Create noise and rabbit holes
*** Try to co-opt some truths making it a bit more difficult to realize insidious posting patterns.
*** Turn off real people from participating on major "progressive" boards, leaving them frustrated and alienated.

Seventhson The Freeper Fake

If he was close to Stephenson, that makes it tougher to believe Bev's former employee was legit. This post makes it seem so, not to mention they did interact with each other at Democratic Underground.

My last email to "Coppertop" Andy Stephenson

Did anyone save seventhson Freeper coming out post

Here it is according to William Pitt:


DUers: keep the faith - we're being freeped

There's tons more. The internet is full of all this kind of nonsense.

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 17 Jun 2008, 14:07 #6

I thought this place was about to expand, but that was a miscalculation. So a few extra sections have been deleted with the threads moved into other forums. Those threads may not be 100% appropriate for their new places, but because there are so few of us here, it makes sense to tighten up the place.

One of the reasons I am not going to go into much detail of why may41970 was let go, is because I no longer want any part of direct contact with convolution. It is ok to bust trolls. It is quite another to continually interact with them. If may41970 wants to do that, I am not his keeper. Basically, he was let go because he was developing a pesky habit of having emotional episodes. He was attacking too many of us, from NatureIsMad, Isard, CPellatt, to myself. I had asked him to chill out with the bad language, yet he persisted. This was meant to be a haven from all the nasty interactions. It is one thing to uncover bullshit on the net. It is quite another to bring it into a house and somehow give it more attention than it merits.

One of the strategies utilised by internet fakes is to waste our time. There is simply too much trolling going on to focus in on just a few of them. The chemtrails nonsense on the internet is so extensive, that it is impossible to expose all of it. I am proud of having exposed a bunch of it, but there is a whole wide world web of trolls. May41970 either fell for their trap, or it's been his job to keep steering this forum towards it.

Once you hammer a nail in, the job is done. Deep Sky was exposed as fraudulent. "Louis Aubuchont" has been thoroughly revealed as an internet menace. Probable cause exists that he is paid to post on the internet. Now why would someone continue to interact directly with that?

Another problem I had with may41970 is that he was drilling me in public for things we were trying to work out in private. I honestly do not know if he is a paid troll or confused. I do know that he said he was gonna post here more often but never did. I do know he would pm me links and ideas without ever making posts. He would tell me he would help work on my threads, as it is always good to get second opinions, but he never did. While he never followed through with making more posts here, he did make a bunch of them at a place called Reddit {as Rosinante as he has openly admitted at Debate Both Sides}. There he did make some posts debunking man-made global warming.

I also did not appreciate him signing in as "guest" at Chemtrail Central as I did. He should have known better than to do that. And while Starman1 has finally admitted that myself and may41970 were not posting from the same internet address, I simply am tired of being tied in so much with may41970. I do wish I never met him. It was not fun to be cybersmeared and attacked after he brought the What Really Happened "Unofficial" crap into this place. I do not appreciate his lack of chemtrail posts. I do not appreciate how he'd tell me he'd chip in with my threads on for example Hertzberg and actually a number of threads, yet never did.

Some of my troll busting has been spot on. When it has been, the evidence uncovered has carried the day. Other times, I have made posts without any definitive statements. I do believe that Stitcherman is Aubuchont, or at least that they are on the same payroll. I do believe that Deep Sky is a hoax. Where are the photographs and videos from "the invasion?"

Here's another thought on these fakes. Halva {Wayne Hall} has been promoting Aubuchont for years. He has also promoted a hoax called "Deep Shield." He has also been a big promoter of Will Thomas. Thomas' argument has been that chemtrails are for off-setting global warming. "Deep Shield" argued that chemtrails were a neccesity due to the blowing out of the ozone layer. It has been shown that chemtrails for global warming cannot possibly be true. Halva has had plenty of time to correct his biggest, glaring mistake. I've never seen him once admit that chemtrails as geoengineering {e.g. Crutzen, Teller} doesn't pass the truth test. Chemtrails are being witnessed in the troposphere, not the stratosphere.

Effective trolling is all about circumscribing. It is about creating enigmas and planting doubts into our abilities to filter out the astroturfing from the good stuff. This is kind of the same thinking that went into the deliberate distortion the of CPellatt's fine work. Those who look into things beyond the surface are not the ultimate targets of the network of trolls. The fakes are all about discouraging and confusing newbies and fence-sitters.

A month or two ago I asked Agent99 how she became the moderator for BradBlog. I thought she might be a paid troll, because she was messing with my posts while seemingly supporting the cybergang. That group of posters has been confirmed to include "Lou Aubuchont." He was posting as "Mike." That is a fact. I provided BradBlog with the internet address of AnnAngryBitch. It was the exact one used by the "Mike" who trolled me.

Another poster named RedEnder is clearly the same person as TOTO who stalked me at Debate Both Sides. To the few out there who looked into this, you know what I'm talking about. The problem is that there is an infinite capacity for the dark side to create sock puppets and new troll id's. One could work around the clock looking into this type of convolution. The trolls don't mind if we do that. Time spent exposing trolls takes away from time spent making positive posts. Personally, I have tried to balance it out. The old saying is bash the troll then get back on topic.

If I had continued to devote so much time to the Chemtrail Central, Gastronamus, Megasprayer, DebateBothSides, WRH Unofficial crapola, that would have taken away from time that should have been spent researching chemtrails, other news, and other forms of astroturf. And to repeat from before, how many times can one hammer in the nail?

But back to Agent99. I have yet to see her mess with any of my posts since those earlier times. I now think she is for real.

When I used to post at Huffington, around late 2005 during the Fitzmas era, there were paid trolls all over the place. One tactic they used was to make usernames similar to those of good posters. One other reason I had for doubting Agent99's sincerity was because an internet troll named CarmenJonze from was signing off as Agent 99 at the Randi Rhodes Message Board. Paid trolls like to blur the good posters in with the bad ones.

I believe that the RRMB was deleted for the same reason Rivero's WRH Forum was. It was the same reason "Aubuchont" deleted all his Chemtrail Central posts. This type of rationale explains why "Fintan Dunne" erased Navari {Steven Hertzberg} from his BreakForDisinfo website. The people behind such decisions are simply covering their tracks. For truths about trolling can be found through the digging of arcives. Now that the old Randi Rhodes board has been scrubbed, it is near impossible to efficiently study that specific forum history.

I had trouble finding old CarmenJonze posts at the RRMB. Google provided me with nothing. Yahoo still has the information, but without the caches, there is no way to get to her posts. One can find the old RRMB through the wayback machine, but it is impossible to go directly to her posts. I tried going through some threads, but many of those were not available. It would take many hours to find actual CarmenJonze posts.

Yet, here is a bit of proof that CarmenJonze was signing off as Agent99. This is from the yahoo search page.


Those are just a few examples. I plugged in "carmenjonze agent 99" into yahoo. There were 275 results. One can check it out and see how Carmenjonze and Agent 99 were showing up on different posts proving she was using that as a signature.

The real Agent99 has been victimized, imho. Anyone who successfully gets their voice out will be attacked by the paid trolls. They think this way good people get circumscribed into convolution. They also believe that few if any of us will be able to fight back with the truth.

Here's a thread from yesterday's BradBlog where a paid troll showed up. "Amy" was promoting a Democrats for McCain website. Ha, that's a good one. That's called a non-sequitor. That's like having a Boston Celtics fan say he or she is rooting for the Lakers or vice-versa. That's like saying Arianna Huffington is a leading liberal voice and Christopher Hitchens a fascistic tool of the state apparatus. Oops. Those last two did happen, and it does leave me scratching my head.

There's a lot of crazy stuff on the net that can be figured out. Unfortunately, troll busting is a lonely business. Fortunately, the word has gotten out about the fakery. People now do know about Markos Zuniga of the Daily Kos. People do know about the Chemtrail trolls. People do know about Netvocates, the Bivings Group, Advantage Consultants, the Rendon Group, the White House Iraq Group, Wally O'Diebold, Mark Lindeman, Hertzberg, this list could go on for many pages. People do know about Atwater and Rove.

p.s. I just figured out who the "Amy" above was posting for. His name is Will Bower, the fouder of PUMA {Party Unity My Ass}.

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 31 Jul 2008, 00:16 #7

This next one in a nutshell explains how insidious astroturfing works. I don't care about getting into pro or anti gun control. Check out how this woman led a double life. She was a mole for the National Rifle Association and perhaps deeper intel style cointelpro. She was also involved deeply as an activist for the gun control advocates. Now think of how many different issues and groups there are. What is it with these cheaters who hate democracy so much? Why can't they play fair? That is sick to hear people go to this kind of extent to deceive. This is the kind of thing that backs up this most tinfoil part of my belief system. I think there are fakes all over the internet. It's pretty sad how far the top ten percent go to screw over the rest of us.

Please remember. It's not the gun issue that is so intriguing about this story. We could be talking about another Carol Rosin type infiltration. Astroturfing is real and very pathetic. It's borderline fascism and attempts at mind control. We are talking gatekeeping 101. But there are pockets of awareness.

Mother Jones
There's Something About Mary: Unmasking a Gun Lobby Mole

By James Ridgeway, Daniel Schulman, and David Corn
July 30, 2008
NEWS: Mary McFate was a prominent gun control activist. Mary Lou Sapone was a freelance spy with an NRA connection. They are the same person. A Mother Jones investigation.

This is the story of two Marys. Both are in their early 60s, heavyset, with curly reddish hair. But for years they have worked on opposite ends of the same issues. Mary McFate is an advocate of environmental causes and a prominent activist within the gun control movement. For more than a decade, she volunteered for various gun violence prevention organizations, serving on the boards of anti-gun outfits, helping state groups coordinate their activities, lobbying in Washington for gun control legislation, and regularly attending strategy and organizing meetings.

Mary Lou Sapone, by contrast, is a self-described "research consultant," who for decades has covertly infiltrated citizens groups for private security firms hired by corporations that are targeted by activist campaigns. For some time, Sapone also worked for the National Rifle Association.....