The Truth Cannot Be Deleted: Brett Kimberlin Exposed!

manufactured grassroots, disinfo, and insidious marketing
Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 12 Jan 2009, 01:42 #1

There's some heavy duty bullshit going on in regards to election integrity fakes associated with the Democratic Underground. Such nonsense is contaminating the notion of fair play on the blogosphere. Not only were solid threads scrubbed, the caches have now become either deleted or useless. I am now going to post the thread that specific internet fakes do not want you to see. The truth is winning. The pond scum are losing.

Brett Kimberlin Exposed

by Prepostericity
journal entry
Dec. 30th, 2008
A good place to start to try to figure out this guy is an old thread by troubleinwinter.

Uh-oh... THIS GUY!!!?

Brett Kimberlin has been one of the driving forces behind the Mike Connell election fraud story.

According to Mark Crispin Miller, "Spoonamore's testimony is the driving force behind a RICO lawsuit in Ohio. The lawyers handling it--Cliff Arnebeck and Bob Fitrakis--are terrific, and they have a game plan that provides us with some hope.....What I urge people to do is to donate whatever they can spare to Velvet Revolution, the non-profit that is managing the suit. It was VR's Brett Kimberlin who got Spoonamore to open up, and he also has other sources with a lot to say..."

Kimberlin along with Brad Friedman is a co-founder of the Velvet Revolution. According to their own website,

"...A tipster close to the McCain campaign disclosed to VR in July that Mr. Connell’s life was in jeopardy and that Karl Rove had threatened him and his wife, Heather. VR’s attorney, Cliff Arnebeck, notified the United States Attorney General, Ohio law enforcement and the federal court about these threats and insisted that Mr. Connell be placed in protective custody. VR also told a close associate of Mr. Connell’s not to fly his plane because of another tip that the plane could be sabatoged...."

Unless I am mistaken, all the sources saying that Connell was ever threatened by Karl Rove lead back to some connection to Brett Kimberlin, the convicted bomber and drug smuggler. Velvet Revolution admits to Arnebeck being their attorney. Plus, all the sources saying Connell had been threatened are from anonymous tipsters such as this alleged McCain campaign worker.

But this is where the monkey wrench got thrown in.

One of my sources died in a plane crash last night...

Larisa Alexandrovna wrote,

"I don't usually reveal sources, but I think this is incredibly important.....he had information that he was ready to share....In fact, it was through following the Siegelman-Rove trail that I found evidence leading to Connell. That is how I became aware of him. Mike was getting ready to talk. He was frightened....I have been to Mr. Connell's home. Mr. Connell has confided that he was being threatened, something that his attorneys also told the judge in the Ohio election fraud case...."


Larisa Alexandrovna is the only source with a name who says that Connell told her directly that he had been threatened. She also wrote that Connell's own attorneys had told the judge about the alleged threat. I thought it was only the plaintiffs in the RICO case who made the claim that Connell had been threatened.

Alexandrovna is the "Managing Editor" of RawStory. Can she, like Arnebeck, be directly tied to Brett Kimberlin?

The L.A. Steel Show
1/23/2008 8:00 PM

"...Tonight we interview Brett Kimberlin, the man behind e-voting investigations of and the investigative internet journal Raw Brett is a musician and was recently waterboarded for a music video...."

What is the real connection between Brett Kimberlin and RawStory? Is he really the man behind their e-voting investigation? Has he perhaps had an even greater role than that with the creation and rise of that alternative, internet newspaper?

One of the show's co-hosts not only introduced him as being a force behind RawStory's election fraud investigations. He also said that Kimberlin had been unfairly imprisoned for the Speedway bombings. He portrayed Brett as having been merely a pot dealer. Then he jumped into the Dan Quayle thing. Then he again said Brett was unfairly put in prison for the bombings.

Basically, this is the mixing of apples and oranges, complete disinformation. The Dan Quayle thing had nothing to do with his convictions as the Speedway bomber. Did these radio hosts even try to vet out Kimberlin's claims of being a political prisoner subsequently exonerated of any guilt for the violent crimes? Where is the proof that Kimberlin was ever exonerated?

I do agree with the hosts, however, that Kimberlin is definitely a major player on the internet. There's no disagreement there.

Now I will try to listen to the part in which troubleinwinter or creeksneakers2 {sorry, can't remember who} said that Kimberlin never corrected the claims of a major connection between himself and RawStory.

The pre-recorded interview starts at around the 12:45 mark. There are also the introductory comments at the beginning of the show.

L.A. Steel introduced Kimberlin as such:

"Kimberlin is the behind RawStory, BradBlog, and the impeachment movement, voter fraud, he's into everything."

Brett didn't correct any of that. I don't believe he even corrected the phrase voter fraud which was confused with election fraud. He did say that his past was sordid but very colourful. Wow. Being charged with murder, found with Dept. of Defense insignia, convicted and never exonerated for the Speedway bombings which took place around the time of an original murder charge- I'll take my own mediocre existence over that kind of colourful.

[on edit: Brett Kimberlin was never charged for the murder of Julia Scyphers. However, the police believed his motive for setting the bombs was to disrupt the small police department's investigation of such, in which Brett was a prime suspect. Sorry for any confusion.]

Steel repeated herself a bit later that Kimberlin has, "... been a moving force behind RawStory, BradBlog and the impeachment movement...."

Then she asked him, "What inspired you to become so deeply interested in these things?"

Again, there was no correction made. Thus, one can assume that Brett Kimberlin in all likelihood has been a driving force behind RawStory.

Brett Kimberlin was never a political prisoner. Anyone saying otherwise might as well claim that pigs can fly.

lala_rawraw wrote: (1000+ posts)
Tue Dec-30-08 08:49 PM
Response to Original message

1. nope, not remotely

if some person claimed it and he did not deny it, it does not make it so... i am telling you that he is not. period. go email our publisher if you wish. but this is defamation. there is NO AFFILIATION with Raw Story. Period!!!!!

Prepostericity wrote:
Tue Dec-30-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #1

2. Thanks for the response

Defamation is slander, libel, or a false statement borne of malice. Clearly I have linked to the L.A. Steel Show which has provided the information. I did not pull this out of thin air.

And why would this be defamation even if Kimberlin has never backed the Raw Story?

From TroubleinWinter's Uh-Oh thread, you posted,

"Anyway, I know him. I vouch for him. The reason he has so little money by the way, is that he spends it all on promoting causes, like election fraud. He helps Brad Friedman, Clint Curtis, and so forth.

Take it or leave it, but for what it is worth, I vouch for him."

If there is misinformation here, you'll need to ask L.A. Steel and the Speedway Bomber to correct it, not me.

I am very happy you have found this thread. I asked you a few questions elsewhere. It's probably such a big thread, you missed them.

From your blog:

One of my sources died in a plane crash last night...

"I don't usually reveal sources, but I think this is incredibly important.....he had information that he was ready to share"

like what?

"Mike was getting ready to talk. He was frightened"

That's based on your alleged conversation{s} with him?

"I have been to Mr. Connell's home. Mr. Connell has confided that he was being threatened, something that his attorneys also told the judge in the Ohio election fraud case...."

Wasn't it the plaintiff lawyers who alleged this? How many times did you meet and speak with Connell?

"When I met with Heather, his wife, I did so carefully because of the threats he was getting.

I left a note for her in her mailbox and asked her to meet me in a local park near their home. Heather came and through our conversation I got the sense that these were not bad people or corrupt people."

You said,

"Just to be very clear and state again, I am not claiming conspiracy theory or direct relation to Karl Rove or the White House in any of these events. What I am saying, however, is that these possible relationships cannot and should not be overlooked by investigators. There are far too many serious and reasonable questions that must be answered for the public."

Thus, it appears that you believe the Connell plane crash should be investigated as being a possible murder. Now many folks say the safest thing to do in a whistleblower situation is to make your story as well known as possible. Are you going to spill the beans on all you know? What about VR and their alleged anonymoun McCain campaign tipster? Don't reporters have to reveal sources, if they pertain to a murder investigation? Are you in contact with law enforcement about this possible murder?

Oh yeah, one more question please.

On the TroubleinWinter thread, you also wrote the following:

"I can only say that he was wrongly convicted, released, sued the government and won. As part of the agreement, he cannot discuss the particulars publicly. By the way, the real interest in those articles calling him a con man is that no one points out that he was the guy who - during the Regan/Quayle election, who came forward and blew the whistle on Dan's little drug problem... see, Brett sold him dope. I wonder why a guy who sued the government and won would suddenly be a con man? Swift boat anyone?"

You also wrote,

"he was convicted wrongfully and he even served time for something he did not do while is attorneys fought the conviction... it was overturned, he was exhonirated, and then he sued and won!

he was put into jail because he was talking about Danny Quayle's drug habbit... welcome to Amerika Image"

Are you going to retract all that? You must know by now that you were wrong. He was in prison when he tried to tell a story about selling weed to Dan Quayle. He was put in solitary confinement or something for that.

He was not a political prisoner, as he tries to spin it. He was never exonerated for anything. I'm actually trying to help you. If by chance you were just one of many who have been charmed by this guy {see Mark Singer}, then perhaps you simply are still unaware of the truth about the Speedway Bomber.

There are some legal documents available on the web. This guy is bad news and TroubleInWinter is correct that those concerned with promoting election integrity should keep their distance from him.

Unless of course, you can prove he was exonerated. I don't think you can.

lala_rawraw wrote:
Tue Dec-30-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #2

4. Yes, because LA Steel is clearly so very reputable and well known...

Seriously... contact Raw Story and ask them. Don't you think that should be done if you are going to post this garbage? Contact Brad Friedman too, since you keep claiming crap about him too. But citing someone from LA as your proof, someone I have never heard of, is not remotely proof of anything. But you go on and continue claiming that Kimberlin is behind RS. Because obviously, John Byrne - the gay 20 something owner - is really just Kimberlin in disguise. Your claims make everything else you say entirely laughable. If you wanted to make a point about Kimberlin, then you should have simply made that point without making outrageous claims and using some random show in LA as proof. Perhaps then what your issues were related to election fraud or whatever, might have gotten serious attention.

Just because someone says something does not make it true. The right-wing has called me a commie, that does not mean I am. Now I cannot explain why Kimberlin did not deny her false claim. But I find it strange that you first say he should not be trusted and then you use his silence as proof of something. I suggest that this LA Steel person and you contact RS and get your facts straight.

Whatever your issues with Kimberlin, Dragging RS into it simply makes you look questionable at best. Not to mention that you seem to keep reappearing and posting the same stuff over and over and across so many posts. It is obsessive really. It is doubtful that you are remotely acting in good faith. So the question is who are you and why are you so interested in spreading something that you know (really, it is not hard to check) is false?

I have nothing else to say to you. You are clearly determined to lie regardless of the reality. I am sure you will continue to do so. Good luck with that.

Happy New Year

Wow, I just clicked on an image on the yahoo cache. When I hit back page, yahoo told me the cache was gone. But that's ok. I saved it. How is the internet not rigged?

Prepostericity wrote:
Tue Dec-30-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #4

11. Thanks again for the responses

I only wish you would sing on what Mike Connell told you.

How long did you speak with Heather? What was said?

Is this a story or not of possible murder?

What did Connell say to you?

I guess I have no more questions for you then, if you have nothing else to say to me.

I didn't lie.

If I make a mistake, I am willing to admit it.

Why don't you give Brett a phone call and ask him what happened? There is another woman who interviewed Brett who had the same kind of info. I posted that somewhere and can try to find it if you want. She was located in Arizona. That's two sources saying something about Kimberlin and Raw Story.

You know what? I will find that and wish you peace back. I am worried about you, too, as one of the other "debunkers" posted in one of the Christmas time threads.

Here, check this out.

I have nothing to do with either L.A. Steel of I believe New Hampshire or this lady. I am an amateur internet sleuth.

It's clearly check-mate on that idea that the Speedway Bomber was ever exonerated. You should recant that, imho.

Or oh well, she's not answering any of these what I believe are clear cut questions.

I mean, I was the one who first said Arnebeck was Brad's attorney. And even if that is not technically true. It says at VR that Arnebeck is the VR's attorney. And Brad is a co-founder of Velvet Revolution. Just saying. Now I am wondering why possible connections between Arnebeck and VR or between Raw Story and Brett Kimberlin are hitting such a raw nerve.


troubleinwinter wrote: Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Tue Dec-30-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #2

6. How he spends "his" money?

"The reason he has so little money by the way, is that he spends it all on promoting causes, like election fraud. He helps Brad Friedman, Clint Curtis, and so forth." ~Larisa

This makes me wonder if it is supposed to be believed that Kimberlin has paid off the $1.6 million judgement he owes to the widow of one of his victims.

lala_rawraw wrote:
Tue Dec-30-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #6

7. so how many people has he killed?

because there is the bombing, then the murder, and there was a kidnapping you said? i hope law enforcement finds him and puts him in jail. is he with Osama in a cave somewhere?

also, you claim that you don't believe a word he says, but your pal up thread says that Kimberlin did not deny the claims by this LA Steel person... so which is it? is he lying or telling the truth?

honestly, if you want to keep me interested, can you please make this more fun and write it as a first person narrative or include pictures of dead bodies or something of the sort?

Prepostericity wrote:
Tue Dec-30-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #7

8. It looks like his actions resulted in at least one death

He was never convicted for the murder of Julia Scyphers. There really is nothing on the net concerning that. I've looked everywhere. Maybe I am burnt out from being an amateur internet sleuth. The problem is probably that she was killed way before the internet took off.

I caught one line out of a Speedway, Indiana forum talking about a Sandy Cyphers. My theory is that Kimberlin was dating Julia's daughter and took that child on trips.

I kind of don't think Brett was/is a pedophile. This is pure conjecture on my part now. Maybe someone can find Singer's book for more info? Maybe a DUer from Indiana can fill us in?

The bombings led to the Vietnam veteran's death. Sorry, not good with details, specifics all the time. I try my best and am sincere.

One death. Maybe the grandmom was gonna squeal on the drug dealing. Or maybe there was something awful to do with the granddaughter. But for real, he set off the bombs. I went through those documents from one of the parole decisions. He was bad news. They had tons of proof on him.

Turning over a new leaf? No one wants to give up on anyone. That's at the heart of the Mike Connell story. We want to believe that a family man, a rightwinger, a good man decided to be a whistleblower.

If he had turned over a new leaf, he wouldn't be lying about being a political prisoner. He wouldn't be astroturfing himself as a groovy peacenik who got railroaded. If he had been exonerated, there is no way that information could remain hidden.

Good point on Kimberlin's credibility. I now don't believe that he is a major force behind Raw Story. Excellent point.

As TroubleinWinter pointed out, he owes that family a lot of money.

So legally one person died due to his actions. He also might have killed the grandmom. I'm not sure why you mention kidnapping or Osama Bin Laden.

troubleinwinter wrote:
Tue Dec-30-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #7

12. "fun pictures of dead bodies"??

Did I say a "kidnapping"? NO, I did NOT.

And there is not "the bombing", there were EIGHT, one in a school parking lot where a man's leg was blown off.

The person upthread is not "my pal". I did hear the radio program, and Kimberlin did not correct the comments by the host twice saying, "Brett Kimberlin, moving force behind BradBlog, Raw Story, impeachment movement and voter fraud". I didn't take it particularly seriously, would you like me to? I stated in a previous post that I find it meaningless either way, as Kimberlin is a notorious liar.

Well, he was placed in jail. Sentenced to 51 years. Lucky for him, many were to be served consecutively. Under sentencing guidelines in effect at the time, he was paroled after 14 years, but he violated parole and was returned to prison, and finally rereleased in 2001.

You like court documents. Here is one.

United States of America, Plaintiff-Appellee V. Brett C. Kimberlin, Defendant-Appellant

"can you please make this more fun and write it as a first person narrative or include pictures of dead bodies or something of the sort?" You seem to think this is quite funny. I suggest that you might like to contact the widow of Carl Delong. Maybe she can make it "fun" for you by providing some photos of her husband with a blown off leg, missing fingers, or even his dead body. She suffered serious injury from bomb fragments, maybe she has photos of her injuries that will provide you with entertainment.

You could contact the police and ask for photos of Julia Scyphers' body, if that would make you happy.

WillYourVoteBCounted wrote: Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Dec-31-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #12

20. fake DOD identification, 22 with silencers, 7 AR 15 Rifles?

For petes sake, what the hell was Kimberlin going to do with a 22 caliber pistol with a silencer
on it?

Thats what hit men use, right? Thats some awesome document.

And why the bombs, why? (I am still reading but don't get why the bombs).

1. The Impala

Defendant challenges the validity of two search warrants authorizing search of the Impala. He had made pre-trial motions to suppress. He was arrested by an FBI agent the afternoon of September 20 for impersonating a federal officer and misuse of the seal of the President. On the morning of the 21st, FBI Agent Lucas obtained the first warrant. The magistrate found probable cause to believe that official badges, identification cards, and other insignia of the design prescribed by the Department of Defense and facsimilies of the Seal of the President, possessed and used in violation of 18 U.S.C. Sec. 701 and Sec. 713, were being concealed in the Impala. During the day the ATF agents who knew that defendant was a suspect in the bombings and the FBI agents involved in his arrest on the insignia charges became aware of each other's interest. ATF agents were present when the search was made. ATF Agent Donovan observed timers, lead shot, and a six-volt battery, among other things, in the trunk of the Impala. He then obtained the second warrant to search the car, and the search was made the evening of the 21st.

The challenge to the second warrant, obtained on the basis of observations during the first search, depends wholly on the alleged invalidity of the first warrant.

a. Defendant argues that Agent Lucas' affidavit for the first warrant did not demonstrate probable cause.

b. The affidavit was carefully detailed. Personal observations and information from named officers and others were described. Complete repetition here is unnecessary. Lucas had been called to a printing establishment. He observed defendant wearing clothing with badges and insignia. The insignia was identical to that of the Security Police of the Defense Department. Defendant had in hand a facsimile of the Presidential Seal and other documents, one or more of which he attempted to chew up. He had been at the establishment the day before to have copies of the documents printed. He had been wearing the same clothing. At the printer's instructions, he had returned to give final approval of the layout. Army investigators were also present. They had just previously observed defendant drive the Impala into the parking lot and enter the establishment. The Impala had remained there since defendant's arrest.


Scott Bixler was a co-defendant with defendant Kimberlin in the Texas marijuana case. In rebuttal he testified that in the summer of 1978 he purchased seven AR-15 rifles at $300 each. Defendant Kimberlin supplied the money, and Bixler turned six of the rifles over to him. Days before, Bixler had purchased a shotgun for defendant Kimberlin. This testimony came in without objection. There was testimony that an AR-15 was found at the Patricia Strait residence in Texas, along with apparent bomb components, and that the serial number on the rifle was scratched through. This evidence came in without objection.

On redirect, Bixler testified, over objection, that he and defendant Kimberlin had shot a semi-automatic .22 caliber pistol with a silencer on the end of it. Kimberlin had provided this weapon. They shot it at the "airstrip," a location which figured in the marijuana operation.

troubleinwinter wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #20

23. The theory...

of the police, was that the bombings were to distract the small-town police force from the investigation of the murder of Julia Scyphers.

I found it interesting that Kimberlin was held for mental evaluation to see if he was competent to stand trial.

And why was he taking a little girl alone for "vacations"?

WillYourVoteBCounted wrote: Wed Dec-31-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #23

27. CITIZEN R: The Deeply Weird American Journey of Brett Rimherlin.

This is a fascinating story, would make a best seller in the fiction aisle:


Singer had found the ideal subject:
Kimberlin was an immensely successful
drug smuggler with juicy tales of his
outlaw adventures; since his incarceration
he'd become a jailhouse lawyer whose appetite
for litigation was limitless; and, besides
claiming to be a political prisoner
because of his confinements in 1988, he
also claimed that he was in prison in the
first place only because he was the victim
of a sophisticated government frame-up.

Kimberlin was convicted in 1979 of a
rash of bombings in Speedway, Indiana,
that had resulted in the maiming of a man
who subsequently committed suicide.
Government investigators had found
timers and traces of the explosive used in
making the bombs in Kimberlin's car.
How they came to be searching the car is,
as everything involving Kimberlin would
turn out to be, a long story. He was illegally
in possession of various items with government
insignia, clothing patches, fake
ID cards, copies of the presidential seal.
These had been used in a multi-ton marijuana
deal that had gone awry, one result
of which was mqijuana raining down out
of the south Texas sky as a scared pilot
ditched his load, and another result of
which-was the Feds tailing Kimberlin. His
drug-dealing had long aggravated lawenforcement
agencies, and he was also a
suspect in the murder of Julia Scyphers,
who disapproved of the bizarre relationship
Kimberlin had with her teenage granddaughter.
(Kimberlin's female interests
tend toward the adolescent.) The prosecution
claimed Kimberlin had contracted for
the killing, and that the bombings had been
perpetrated to distract attention from the
murder investigation.

more at the link ... 207881.pdf
WillYourVoteBCounted wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #23

28. Julia Scyphers disapproved of Kimberlains' relationship w/her granddaughter

and Scyphers was murdered. Did the police solve that murder?

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #6

18. The only thing I can think of....

is perhaps he has sold the idea to people that he was exonerated for the bombings. Those people perhaps never got around to investigating the merits of that claim. Then perhaps he did win a lot of money from the Dan Quayle thing. If he owed the widow's family 1.6 million, perhaps his settlement was 2.6 million? Those rewards he offers too don't seem to have to ever be paid out. Unless they lead to a conviction, it isn't happening.

Perhaps he showed Larisa documents of his settlement, in which it said he can't reveal the amount.

There really is a kind of a Charlie Manson feel to this. He seems to be a genius at charming the snot out of people. It is human nature to relax, when we hear the things we'd like to.

I don't think he is a physical threat, but on the flip side, that story about the GrandMom is troubling. That would be quite the coincidence, her murder and the bombings, the drug deals, DoD insignia stuff, etc..

If I had been innocent yet wrongly convicted but never exonerated, I would have come clean and told everything I knew about traveling with the little girl, the relationship with the Grandmom, my own theory on how I was wrongly convicted. I would provide details in order to fight for my reputation and integrity.

I mean, Brett Kimberlin was no Sherman Austin, as far as I can see. And has he not outright lied with this political prisoner crap? I mean, the question is rhetorical, because it is so obvious that the Dan Quayle thing happened while he was already a convicted prisoner.

troubleinwinter wrote: Tue Dec-30-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #1

3. "defamation"?

If Kimberlin lets it stand that he is associated with Raw Story, I'd disbelieve it, as I tend not to believe anything he says at all.

Aside from everything else (convicted of smuggling four tons of drugs, charged with the murder of the grandmother of the little girl he took alone on vacations, convictions relating to seven rifles, ammo, a pistol with a silencer, illegally using Department of Defense insignia and ID & the Presidential seal, eight bombings, parole violation), he was also previously convicted of perjury.

I've read so many lies by Kimberlin, that if he indicates or allows that he is associated or a "moving force behind" Raw Story, I assume it's a lie.

You suggested in another thread to read the court documents. This is what I see:
On July 19, 2008, two days after this news conference that was widely disseminated within the blogosphere, an anonymous tipster, describing himself as being within the McCain Presidential campaign, reported that Rove had threatened Michael Connell for the apparent purpose of intimidating him from giving truthful testimony against Karl Rove. See Declaration of Brett Kimberlin, Exhibit B, ¶ 3.
It appears that the source was the convicted perjuror, Brett Kimberlin.

I cannot find The Declaration of Brett Kimberlin.

I wonder if Arnebeck was aware at the time that Kimberlin was a convicted perjuror? Was the court advised of it?

I am not clear on what you are claiming is "defamation". You have said that you "vouch for" Kimberlin and that he "is a good person". I don't see how you would think being associated with him is defamatory.

lala_rawraw wrote:
Tue Dec-30-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #3

5. mk

have fun kids... murder, rape, terrorism, blah blah blah and Raw Story, blah blah blah, Brad Friedman, blah blah blah, everyone who anyone I have ever met too... it is all one big conspiracy. seriously, by all means keep going. now it is getting simply funny. i called by boyfriend over to read this too... seriously, i am not kidding... please keep going.
Prepostericity wrote:
Tue Dec-30-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #5

15. Hey Larisa

You're saying you saw court documents where Brett Kimberlin was clearly exonerated but part of the settlement is he has to abide by some code of silence? That's some funny way of being exonerated.

I think maybe Brett stretches the truth. It looks like he lied to those radio people. If he didn't lie, that means he is probably a financial backer. But as TroubleinWinter wrote, it doesn't look like he's got the funds. He was OJ before there was an OJ. Jeez, I should apologize to the Juice. He was no Brett Kimberlin. Or ugh, how do we quantify violence or create a spectrum of guilt. I just don't like the way he has tried to portray himself as a political prisoner who never committed the crimes.

Something reeks bad here.

If you really want an interesting conspiracy theory, Larisa, of course that has already been provided.

Brett worked in the Ukraine. He knows Russian. Catch my drift?

Tandalayo_Scheisskopf wrote: Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Tue Dec-30-08 11:00 PM
Response to Original message

9. Could you be so kind...

As to post docket number and courts where and when Kimberlin was convicted of these crimes? Perhaps it will explain why he is still walking amongst the decent folk of the community.

lala_rawraw wrote: (1000+ posts)
Tue Dec-30-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #9

10. the rape, murder too...

how does he fit it all in and also have time to run Raw Story, Brad Blog, and apparently as rumor has it, DU as well? i can barely keep two balls in the air, let alone 200.

Prepostericity wrote:
Tue Dec-30-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #10

14. No one mentioned rape; DU has nothing to do with this

No one said he runs BradBlog or RawStory either.

There are two radio shows who have said there is a connection between the Speedway Bomber and Raw Story.

I am an anonymous forum participant. Nothing more, nothing less. I provided this info to you. It is on Brett Coleman Kimberlin to explain this. Two separate radio shows from across the country report the same thing????

And I am accused of defamation for being the messenger.

I have been on internet forums for almost four years. You do realise the reader decides?

troubleinwinter wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #10

16. No one said those words.

NO ONE in this thread has used the word "rape" but you, Larisa.

NO ONE has used the word "kidnapping", but you.

I do not understand why you attempt to put words in others' mouths (I hope you don't do this with people you interview or investigate) and then find these matters a joke.

Kimberlin was charged with the murder of Julia Scyphers. He was not tried.
He was charged with murder of a woman named Julia Scyphers, and with the bombings; he was convicted of the latter, and of various other crimes.
The Prisoner and the Politician
...he was implicated by police in the murder of Julia Scyphers; her granddaughter, then aged 9-12 accompanied Kimberlin alone on vacations... Police theorized that Kimberlin had her murdered in order to stop her from blowing the whistle on his drug smuggling and relationship with her granddaughter.
NO ONE in this thread has called Kimberlin a "murderer". He was charged with a murder and in a later civil trial the widow of Carl Delong won a judgement of $1.6 million.

Instead of mocking posters here and making jokes about wanting pictures of two people who are dead, (since Kimberlin's donations are interesting to you) as an investigative journalist, don't you call Mrs. Delong and ask how much of the $1.6 million judgement Kimberlin has paid to her?

NO ONE here has said that Kimberlin runs DU.

You make shit up, Larisa, rather than addressing one single piece of Kimberlin's history or why you "vouch for him" or why your say he is a "good person". If he had 'turned over a new leaf', and been repentant, I could see giving someone a second chance. He hasn't. He's a liar. He denies he ever even had a trial, let alone many. Your credibility as an "investigative journalist", when you refuse to even legitimately look at the question, simply sucks.

They should have waited to scrub the caches, imho. This has allowed me to realise that I have hit paydirt with my amateur, internet sleuth findings. Smart spooks would have waited until I got comfortable with the caches being there and then pulled the plug.

Much more to come as this most important thread is kept alive. The only difference between Larisa's nuttiness on display and similar Jason Leopold meltdowns and hoax stories is that this one almost got buried. Netroots my ass. Crashing the gate means making money and putting lipstick on the propaganda.

Aaah, Rage Against the Machine is on in the background.

burn, burn, yes you're gonna burn
Nobody - I mean nobody - pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 12 Jan 2009, 02:48 #2

Prepostericity wrote:
Tue Dec-30-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #9

13. that info could be found

The convictions aren't the question. Larisa claims he was exonerated, that he was a political prisoner.

He was able to get parole due to a type of grandfather clause. It was a 50 year sentence. A man died due to his actions.

I think it took him an extra five years to get parole. His sentence was around 50 years, and he served about 14 of it. He was caught with department of defense insignia. Some things like that, he never denied. I haven't gone looking around too much. It's only recently that I got back on high speed internet. There is one document link with a lot of info, from one of his parole attempts. They covered a bunch of details from the investigation and trial.

troubleinwinter wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #9

17. See post #12

It is a court document where his appeals are denied.
Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #17

19. Thanks for the great posts

You're good at nailing down the facts.

I'm still a bit confused. Logic 101 says he either lied to those radio hosts or not. Two completely separate radio shows aren't gonna say Kimberlin is connected to Raw Story, unless he planted the idea in them. I'm unsure how that would give him any greater credibility. He appears to be backing David Swanson, too. Maybe the best solution would be for Brett himself to be a man, sign up at DU, and answer these questions. I doubt he will.

troubleinwinter wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #19

22. I don't give him any credibility.

Personally, I don't think he's connected to Raw Story in any formal way, any more than I think he is a "moving force behind the impeachment movement or voter fraud (sic)". I wouldn't put it past Kimberlin to mislead or lie to radio hosts or anyone else.

Larisa, however calls him "a friend", "vouches for him", and says "he's a good person", so there is apparently at least a personal relationship between Brett and Raw Story's Managing Editor.

The VR 'reward' money does not come from Kimberlin. Some people have been left to have that wrong impression (again). It is just a "pledge" from some donors according to VR. VR does not hold such monies per their IRS 990 reporting forms. End of the last two years VR has had about 23k on hand each year.

Kimberlin hasn't had money to throw around, according to a 2007 Time article: "...landing in his mother's basement in suburban Washington with a wife and two children. It is a constrained existence. The one-room apartment, with its low, dropped ceiling and stuccoed walls, has room for a double bed, a few stuffed chairs and a TV".

Kimberlin's salary from Justice Through Music Project is $19,500 per year, as Director, last two filing years.

Kimberlin is not listed at all on VR's IRS 990 form, (Brad is Director) and they have no paid employees or officers. They did pay $48,250 last year and $28,125 previous year to "independent contractors".

Justice through Music has given VR money the last two years... $46,500 last year. The address listed on JTM's filing for VR is Brett's address.

If a person had a $1.6 million dollar judgement against him, would one want to hide salary/income to avoid having money withheld for the judgement?

IRS 990 filings for non-profits are available on Guidestar to any member of the public." onclick=";return false

Brett is a member of DU and has posted here.

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #22

25. Correction

I wrote elsewhere above about Kimberlin working in the Ukraine. I was wrong or don't have any proof for that.

Here is an interesting read people might want to check out to go with researching the available court documents and whatnot. ... INGER.html

Crime and Publishing

Mark Singer's inquiry into the denial of a prisoner's rights began as a relatively straightforward magazine story. But as he dug deeper, his project became a morass of deceptions and ethical dilemmas worthy of Dostoyevsky.

by Yvonne Abraham

If you go to page five-

"A free man since 1993, Kimberlin is back in business. Only this time he trucks in a different trade, supplying everything from automobile parts to chicken parts for clients in Ukraine, associates of friends he made in prison...."

Of course, that was written before the parole violations. Brett has been pretty much in prison most of his adult life until this latest incarnation where he has ended up being featured in the Washington Post, waterboarded for a music video, somehow finding himself with fame and pull with no mention of the convoluted crimes. To make things worse, multiple sources are saying he was wrongly convicted. I have a number of times asked Larisa to retract what she wrote. I was doing her a favour. If she simply explained that she has no proof he was exonerated, there wouldn't be this nagging feeling. How does one get exonerated for crimes yet is not allowed to prove that? If he was exonerated, surely there would be evidence of that somewhere.

I think someday this will be made into a movie, and just like with Singer's book, Kimberlin will not be happy about it.

I have told a reporter I know about this story. I told him there is a real scoop here. But anyone who has dealt with reporters knows how difficult it is to get their full attention and curiousity. I guess this is about planting seeds.

I find it shocking that there has been any kind of resistance to the facts in this story. While it is now likely, imho, that Kimberlin is a liar concerning his connections to Raw Story, AfterDowningStreet, and much more, it is beyond doubt that he is a big player, in fact a co-founder of Velvet Revolution.

Larisa's support for him has not been what I find disturbing about the recent threads at DU on Connell and with the subthreads talking about the Speedway Bomber. It is that when confronted with what she wrote the few years back, that he was exonerated, and to not correct that now, that is what makes me scratch my head.

That's a good point you make. We cannot say there is a definite tie between Raw Story and Kimberlin, but through Larisa's own words, she knows and vouches for him. If she weren't a journalist, that would make me feel a lot better too. I am dealing with this as a public story. I am not into flamefests or posturing. One newbie on one of the threads titled his post "Just the facts." It seemed to be a reference to the line out of the show Dragnet. But before I go off on some tangent, my point is I am confused how a journalist would say I was defaming Raw Story by putting up two separate radio shows with the same promotion of Kimberlin as a driving force behind Raw Story.

I will probably go into some prose in my next post. I want to address this OnTheOtherHand idea that just because we are duped by someone doesn't mean we are evil. It just means that we are human. I have a lot of thoughts and ideas, but I am trying to sort them out in my mind so they can remain published.

I've only had one of my posts deleted so far. That is a testament to DU's rule that newbies shouldn't be questioned due to their lack of posts. There's a big wide world internet out there. While DU has a nice visual to it, and I have been reading here off and on for years, it never became my base to blog. I used to post at Huffington, when the PlameGate was emerging. I saw how Cindy Sheehan was being trolled. I saw how the whole place was being trolled. I became very discouraged with major forums. In fact, I am upset that the trolling of Sheehan is now missing. If you go to Cindy's threads, they say zero comments.

I like sunshine. I don't mind disagreement. I like it when things are logical and add up. I like to shoot from the hip and use sources to back up my ideas. And I do appreciate it if people are watching my back for any mistakes I make. I like the fact that these threads get archived, and then new batches of people are able to figure out what the few of us have. When I first set out researching Brett Kimberlin, I found TroubleInWinter's thread. It helped me immensely to cut to the chase. I do admit that almost as intriguing were the posts made by Larisa Alexandrovna. There's a lot to be learned by scouring certain archived forum threads.

As for the whisteblower reward donors, I haven't the link but remember seeing something about anonymous donors from Ohio coughing up $100,000. I sincerely see no evidence of anything concrete coming out of Velvet Revolution. I see a Clint Curtis story which can be ripped apart. I now see a Spoonamore story which can also be dissected.

I also see a lot of emotion on the internet about the evil neo-cons, Bush and Cheney as the devil, the NWO and then the tinfoil products. I hear all this blah, blah, blah about patriots along with a lot of groupthink. One might suppose there has been a coordinated effort to yank a lot of chains on the internet. After four years on the web, Brett Kimberlin strikes me as possibly being involved in a major astroturfing scam. I admit that is conjecture. But I do think there is as much probable cause that Brett Kimberlin is an internet fake, if not more so, than that Mike Connell was possibly knocked off.

I'm curious what Brett's name is at DU. I challenge him to step up to the plate and answer all questions. The only evidence I see that he was exonerated and was in fact a political prisoner comes from an internet journalist who vouches for him. I am not looking for vouchers. Just the facts, please. Maybe a bit of conjecture and theorising thrown in, too, would be nice. But those need to based on facts.

troubleinwinter wrote: Wed Dec-31-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #25

32. Ukraine

On page 360 of Mark Singer's book, 'Citizen K', Singer tells of flying with Kimberlin from NY to Kiev in June 1996. He reports that Kimberlin did deals in Ukraine starting in 1995. Singer says that Kimberlin's Russian seemed pretty passable at that point.

In 1997 he was returned to prison on federal drug charges, a violation of parole, and released in 2001.

Kimberlin's 51 year sentence consisted of:

50 years (manufacturing and possessing a destructive device, and malicious damage by explosives with personal injury)

12 years (impersonating a federal officer, illegal use of a Department of Defense insignia, and illegal use of the Presidential Seal)

5 years (receipt of explosives by a convicted felon)

4 years (conspiracy to distribute marijuana)

For a total of 71 years. But they were served concurrently for an aggregate sentence of 51 years. Then returned to prison after parole for further drug charges.

Given the above history of convictions and imprisonment for drug charges, it amazes me that Kimberlin maintains a website directed specifically at attracting youths and teens as young (and younger than) seventeen, and his site links to a website that promotes and instructs on illegal marijuana smoking and growing (not to mention advice and discussions on taking LSD, ecstasy, making morphine & opium, how to smuggle your heroine onto an airplane, etc.): "Rollitup - Your Marijuana Source"" onclick=";return false /

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #32

33. Thanks for clarifying the Ukraine connection

This part I don't understand:

you wrote:

"Given the above history of convictions and imprisonment for drug charges, it amazes me that Kimberlin maintains a website directed specifically at attracting youths and teens as young (and younger than) seventeen, and his site links to a website that promotes and instructs on illegal marijuana smoking and growing (not to mention advice and discussions on taking LSD, ecstasy, making morphine & opium, how to smuggle your heroine onto an airplane, etc.): "Rollitup - Your Marijuana Source"" onclick=";return false "

Where are you getting that Kimberlin maintains a website directed towards youths linking to a marijuana and illegal drug website?

Marijuana is no longer illegal in Massachusetts. Anything under an ounce is now the equivalent of a speeding point.

Maybe you have uncovered another parole violation. Or maybe I misread your post?

troubleinwinter wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #33

34. It is not legal.
The Sensible Marijuana Policy Initiative, also known as Massachusetts Ballot Question 2, is an initiated state statute that will replace current criminal penalties with civil penalties on adults possessing an ounce or less of marijuana. The initiative appeared on the November 4, 2008 ballot in Massachusetts.

The measure was passed on Nov 4.

Question 2 will:

Replace criminal penalties with a US$100 fine of which the proceeds go to the city where the offense takes place.

Eliminate collection of Criminal Offender Record Information (CORI) reports for minor infractions.

Maintain current penalties for selling, growing, and trafficking marijuana, as well as the prohibition against driving under the influence of marijuana.

The law requires additional penalties for minors not in current law such as Parental notification, compulsary drug awareness program, and 10 hours community service.

Also a larger US$1,000 fine and possible delinquency proceedings for those under 17 if they do not complete the requirements.

The law represents a break with current law in Massachusetts, where people charged with marijuana possession face criminal penalties of up to six months in jail and a US$500 fine, and a CORI report is filed.

Kimberlin has a website "Justice Through Music", which focuses on getting youth down to age 17 to register to vote by using music bands as promotion. His site links to the drug site "Rollitup". The link has been there for at least a couple of years. Why is it a good idea for a convicted drug offender to direct youths and teens to a site that promotes illegal drug use and growing? A site that supports use of opium, morphne, hallucinogenics, LSD, smuggling heroin onto airplanes, etc.? The penalties in Mass. for selling, growing, and trafficking are the same as they were before.

I couldn't care less about personal pot use by adults, but Kimberlin is specifically targeting youth and directing them toward an illegal activity with serious penalties in most states... why? Why would Brad entangle the reputation of the election integrity movement in this sort of shit?

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #34

35. I should have said weed no longer criminal

Anyway, now it appears we'll be able to smoke pot in the open with no more potential snag than a $100 ticket.


That's an excellent connection you have made with the Justice Through Music linking to That's outrageous if true........." onclick=";return false /

I'm having trouble finding it. I do see a glowing endorsement of Ron Paul.
Ron Paul To Hold Own Political Convention

Ron Paul, this year's maverick candidate, has booked an arena in Minneapolis to hold his own 'mini-convention' on September 2nd. Campaign spokesman Jesse Benton says he hopes to "send a message to the Republican Party. There is a growing surge of people out there just craving" for a return "to traditional American government, limited government that places personal liberty first and places an emphasis on personal responsibility and essentially gets out of the way after that," Benton said. "The buzz we get from supporters is that they are very eager to come to St. Paul and very eager to send a strong message."

Paul's convention coincides with the second day of the Republican National Convention. The Paul campaign is hoping 11,000 will attend.

Full Story Here

That is right woos left astroturfing. When I think of Brett Kimberlin, I think of Brett Strawman. I think there is a very good chance we have been discussing some kind of Rovian type operative in this Brett Kimberlin. Can he do anything else to make himself look like a nutjob? I doubt Martin Luther King or Cindy Sheehan would have ever had themselves waterboarded. It's too obvious that he is an Erica Cane, diva, megalomaniac type. Is he a strawman on purpose? Maybe he is buddies with Michael Rivero and Willis Carto?

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #32

36. Found it- Did he have a brain cramp linking to them....

Or is he a deliberate strawman????


troubleinwinter wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #36

37. Mouse over up says, "Discussion board dedicated to helping users grow marijuana". Swell place for teens and young people.

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #37

38. Not too bright

I was editing my post the same time you responded. Do you think Kimberlin had a brain cramp linking to them? Is it crazy to think he may be deliberately acting like a strawman?
troubleinwinter wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #38

39. I think he is a sociopath.

I think it's Brad that isn't too bright.

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #39

40. It's strange why Brad hasn't gone back into the entertainment field already

He complains of carpal tunnel syndrome. Why not simply retire?

What are his actual claims to fame? That he appears to run one of the most important, election integrity websites? What are his big scoops? Clint Curtis and what else? My tinfoil hat is getting warmer.

WillYourVoteBCounted wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #40

45. you don't have to have a fracking scoop every day

it is hard ass work to blog every day, or nearly every day.

I blog, but for 3 months I made myself blog about election issues a minimum
of 5 days a week, whether I wanted to or not.

Its no picnic when you HAVE to do it.

To some what is a scoop may not be so to others.

My style is different from others, and I would find certain writers to be more
persuasive depending on the audience.

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #39

41. You hear of bombs and silencers and Department of Defense Insignia....

And then you see some sociopath in the heart of the election integrity movement... Is it crazy to have the word cointelpro pop into one's head?
Nobody - I mean nobody - pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 12 Jan 2009, 03:22 #3

Tandalayo_Scheisskopf wrote: Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Dec-31-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #17

21. I read a ways into that.

Now, I am not a lawyer, nor have I ever been. That said, an enormous amount of the evidence was based upon...hypnosis. Quite frankly, I know of no courts that, today, allow testimony taken while the witness is under any form of hypnosis to be admissible evidence, and with good reason: the level of suggestibility on the part of the witness is off the graph. We saw a form of that in the constant grilling of young witnesses in the McMartin case and others like it. It is pretty mind-boggling that he did not win on appeal, but that said, in this country, if a Bush wants you in jail, you better expect to be eating a lot of bad food, real soon now. The reverse is just as true.

Also, considering that, at the time, this case and this defendent were cause celebres' of the Bush/Quayle administration...well, acorns rarely fall far from the trees, nor do the trees stray far from the acorns they dropped.

This story is far from complete. Very far. I find it curious that the one person who has been doing the reporting on the case is now the personal and enthusiastic hobby of some, including those without established bona fides here, some of whom have slipped this DU vale of tears. That inclides you, Pre. Just consider it a healthy skepticism on my part as to your motivations. Somehow, I just cannot see my way clear to attribute those motivations to some form of selfless altruism and desire to bring eyesight to the blind, as I have seen stuff like this before. It is a distasteful testimony to the realities of DU that some will follow right along when a good savaging is taking place, no matter by whom and for what reason. It's just plain good fun for some and a new, bright and shiny thing for them. DU is like the Fleet Street Tabloids: We build them up to tear them down. Some have learned to use that for their own terribly ill-mannered ends, as we have seen many times before.

I will be returning to this thread, when I am not so busy and I am presently doing 20 hour days. Then I am going to go to that document and print it out. Then, I am going to utterly impose myself upon a lawyer friend of mine, an ex-NJ Assistant Attorney General, and beg him to read it and give me his honest and learned opinion. If he is too busy, there is the retired judge, a true gentleman and wise man of the law, down the street. Something tells me that my take on it and the take of my lawyer friend will not be far off, because what little I know of the finer points of the law, he has been kind enough to share with me. And my initial take just needs a train whistle to complete the impression.

Is some of my inability to buy that document at face value a result of the fact that the name "Bush" shows up there? You betcha. If there is one true thing that we should know by now, it is that the Bush family considers the law to simply be yet another arrow in their quiver, something to twist, bend and pervert, on the road to getting whatever it is they want at the time. They certainly do not consider it anything that impedes them and their actions or pertains to them.

troubleinwinter wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #21

24. I encourage you to read A LOT

about this peculiar person.

Examine things like his claim that he was never tried, but merely sent directly to jail by right-wingers (except that he references the polygraph expert who testified at his trial. Kimberlin claimed to have "passed with flying colors", but the journalist tracked down the expert who said Kimberlin failed dismally in every way). Oh- and the prosecutor was a highly respected life-long Democrat.

Motivations? I can only speak for myself (I know nothing of the other person). I expect that I have some "bona fides" after four and a half years on DU. Motivations? Truth. I work pretty hard to research and provide links. Do at least read this thread regarding Kimberlin that I posted more than two years ago:


I don't care much for a renowned liar con-man, convicted unrepentant serial bomber, convicted perjuror, suspected murderer presenting himself as the "moving force" behind what he permits to be called "voter fraud" (election fraud). Whatever the truth of him is, it should be brought into the open and discussed. He is an unrepentant violent criminal. If I can find it, others can too. He is a co-founder of a high profile election reform organization. He is not an ex-con who has turned over a new leaf and asks a second chance. Maybe he discredits the movement or not. But it should be KNOWN what it is. Brad has never addressed the issue in any way whatever.

If your opinion or conclusion is different from mine, so be it. However, you have no cause to question my motivations.

Again, I hope you find time to do much more reading.

That's all one could see with the yahoo cached page. Now it seems even that is gone. Google cache is gone. Good people, you need to figure out how to save pages and take screenshots. You need to figure out how to step forward and confirm these kinds of findings.

I thought I was done with this nonsense. I thought I wouldn't need to do much work, because the cache was still pretty good. But 59 posts dropped down to 31 then zero. It's because of the content of the thread. As I have learned from the_last_name_left, such types of scrub jobs, regardless of the implied reasons given, are mostly to do with gatekeepers being afraid of certain content.

All this scrubbing implies that Larisa Alexandrovna and her cronies do have inside power at DU. Wasn't Ben Burch a moderator there? He was buddies with Andy Stephenson. I sincerely believe I have hit paydirt, bingo, or however you want to call it.

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #21

26. Alas

posted by Tandalayo_Scheisskopf:

"...This story is far from complete. Very far. I find it curious that the one person who has been doing the reporting on the case is now the personal and enthusiastic hobby of some, including those without established bona fides here, some of whom have slipped this DU vale of tears. That inclides you, Pre. Just consider it a healthy skepticism on my part as to your motivations...."

This is my angle. Since my days at HuffingtonPost and then after the Netvocates story emerged, I have been curious to what extent the internet is being manipulated.

I only started to dig deep into the election integrity forums about a year or two ago. I stumbled across proof that Steven Hertzberg of the Election Science Institute had become a prolific blogger at Fintan Dunne's nutjob website. From that, I ended up reading all about the drama concerning Bev Harris, Bozos, Rob Pelletier, Anonymous Army, AndyScam, etc..

I am not trying to open up old wounds or ressurect any animosity. But for a time, I started to believe the version that there has been a bash bev campaign. I started to believe what I wanted to hear so that all the noise and convolution would make some sense. I started to distrust posters such as TroubleInWinter and OnTheOtherHand.

But then it turned out that Brad Friedman was not interested in figuring out the Steven Hertzberg story. This came across to me as very peculiar behaviour, since Fintan Dunne's website had called Bev out as being a 9/11 CIA rat. Brad was also listed on some Dunne list of internet fakes. I was pretty sure this was a big find. It didn't make sense to me that Brad had no interest in getting to the bottom of the story.

Hertzberg posted at DU as StevenStevenSteven. He was the epitome of the freeper infiltrator. He even had the gall to start a journal promoting Damschroder of Ohio. That guy has ties to Blackwell, Rove, Bush, and other neocons.

There was one thread where Hertzberg was here during the heydays of the Election Science Institute. He said he'd answer any and all questions. He didn't and simply stopped posting here, as far as I can tell.

Then I started to notice, as TroubleInWinter has, that Brad has never been upfront about Brett Kimberlin's past. Like I've said before, if I had been convicted for something I never did, and had never been exonerated, I would still spill the beans on all I know in an effort to maintain my name and integrity. Isn't there some proverb that it is never the misdeeds but the cover ups that result in one's downfall?

Then I had a catharsis during the Democratic primaries. My background is in the Social Sciences. I have studied a lot of history, social theory, some psychology, liberal arts type junk, etc.. To me, it was not organic the way the Hilary Versus Barack nastiness developed. It was as if it was a rigged script. I have always been a Democrat. My state of Massachusetts is the only one which didn't vote for Nixon in 1972. While I completely disagreed with Hilary's Iraq War resolution vote, while there were certain things about Obama's apparent corporate leanings and other things which were puzzling, I would never have gotten into any kind of flamefest over Obama versus Hilary.

Anyway, it turned out that Bozos was camped out at Cannonfire and NoQuarters bashing Obama. Then recently I saw that Bozos in support of Obama has been going after kooky rightwingers, the ones claiming Obama isn't American, things like that. It kind of was similar to the way Kimberlin glosses over his past or outright lies about it in order to present a certain image. I did not appreciate how Bozos, one of the biggest Obama bashers, was all of a sudden trying to portray himself as the Big Tent Democrat with the troll busting hobby. I do not appreciate the crap that places like Cannonfire and NoQuarters with Larry Johnson put out. In short, I finally saw the light that Bozos has not been who he has portrayed himself as.

But I didn't want to give up just yet on Bev Harris. I emailed her with my concerns. She never wrote back. I also am now aware that she has that rightwinger gun nut on her website. But because she never wrote back to me, I am cutting any emotional cord of mine to her.

There is a lot more I'd like to write about this but am unsure if that would be such a good idea. I have questions about Andy Stephenson, Ben Burch, Kimberlin, and many other things I have read about since becoming a bit addicted to the internet.

Why am I so interested in Brett Kimberlin? Because I have been studying these electoral integrity forum archives for a long time now. I am simply grateful that it is the reader who decides.

To characterize this and other threads as the result of one person and a few others who have picked up on it doesn't wash, imho. The truth is the truth.

WillYourVoteBCounted wrote: Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Dec-31-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #26

29. Fintan Dunne? Doesn't he say HIV doesn't cause/result in AIDS?

if I read correctly, from his website, he supports the same theory that
South African President Mbeki did, that HIV doesn't lead to AIDS.
So what I am saying is this - his website is based on opinion. It isn't the same
as fact.

Heres from Mr. Dunne's website:

In April, 2000 Kathy McMahon and I launched, just as the President of South Africa, Thabo Mbeki began to question the HIV=AIDS paradigm. It began a heady year of battling the vast propaganda resources of the Pharma Cartel. That battle continues, but not without casualties:

In March, 2004 legendary AIDS activist, David Pasquarelli died following health problems caused by being jailed. He had been arrested on November 28, 2001, and imprisoned for 72 days in the San Francisco County Jail for charges related to his political activities. San Francisco authorities had used 'terrorism' laws and outlandish multi-million dollar bail to try shut David up about the corruption of AIDS Inc. History will mark his energy and outrageous unique political theater of dissent, to be as vital a contribution as Mbeki's measured opposition.

HIV & AIDS - Thabo MbekiRethinking AIDS: A growing group of scientists
Rethinking AIDS: A growing group of scientists claim HIV - the AIDS virus - is harmless, AIDS is not contagious, and medication is dangerous." onclick=";return false

Didn't that result in a larger spread of AIDS, death and misery?

In November of 2008, The New York Times reported that due to Thabo Mbeki's rejection of scientific consensus on AIDS and his embrace of AIDS denialism, an estimated 365,000 people perished in South Africa ... ml?_r=1&hp

Uhm, I gotta take a break from this, but please make sure to check back for the rest. I am a nobody with a real story.
Nobody - I mean nobody - pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 12 Jan 2009, 20:20 #4

I'm gonna try to make this my last post on trying to rebuild these scrubbed threads. The best stuff has already been preserved, the stuff showcasing Alexandrovna as being a probable paid fake. People like Mike Rivero don't need to be so subtle about wooing left and solidifying the right wingnut base. People like Alexandrovna and Friedman, on the other hand, they wish to get published by Huffington and to have a certain aura of credibility with the left blogosphere. Sorry to say, but people on the left are simply much brighter than those on the right. That is why such damning evidence against both of them has been suppressed.

But make no mistake, the truth about Alexandrovna has emerged. She is no different than Jason Leopold. Brad's only hope now is to be viewed as an ignorant dupe. Steve Freeman? The professor who came out saying exit polls showed electoral irregularities? I see he is on some webpage pretty much siding with this Kimberlin/Burch perverted side of the blogosphere. Now that could be your useful idiot. I don't think everyone is a paid fake. We all have gotten duped by these internet personalities. Mark Singer and Doonesbury and others got duped by Kimberlin. We have all been duped. That doesn't mean we should be so cynical not to trust anyone. But we need to stop every once in a while and say look, Alexandrovna has been caught up in some bizarre shit here. It is not okay to move on. She has been busted by her own words. Joyce McCloy? How she could have possibly twisted my posts around into saying I think everyone is a CIA fake is yet another sign that she is probably a paid fake. It's ok to misread or make some mistakes. We all do it. But when illogic is the norm rather than the exception, we are in all probability looking at a proverbial internet spook.

I will finish this off by posting a bit more from the "Brett Kimberlin Exposed" thread.

This is where things got ugly as regards to Joyce McCloy and her blatant bullying. Why is she running interference for Steven Hertzberg? Why did she twist my posts around into something they were not? I believe that these people are so blatantly full of it with their paid troll tactics, because they have control of the fake alternative news network. At some point I will continue to publicize that the Mike Connell story has been proven to be a hoax. No one makes as many mistakes as these people without trying to be deliberate strawmen. They just don't want anyone discussing it or pointing it out. They want the vast majority of posts to be about Karl Rove having probably murdered Connell. This is a big story. But the story is that Alexandrovna appears to be part of a vast network of paid propagandists working the internet.

{If the times are ever off on these posts, it's because I never set the time for my profile. It's not easy work busting paid trolls. But I am confident that I truly have come up big with this story of fake progressives manipulating the zeitgeist.}

Bill Bored wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #29

30. But there really is a Pharma cartel, e-voting cartel, unverified elections, 2004 vote switching... Ohio, fake federal voting system standards, etc.

So, maybe the plan is to discredit all election integrity advocates. The exit poll true believers play into this nicely. They can be the most useful of idiots with their half-baked theories that make the rest of us look like nut jobs.

But then how does that square with efforts such as the Hursti hack, without which we might be hip deep in unaudited optical scan ballots (like FL and MI are), the Princeton hacks, which were demonstrated to members of Congress as well as on Fox News and other MSM outlets, and other stuff that VR and have been involved with?

I think the only way to go is to judge this work on its merits and remember that even broken watches are right twice a day!

WillYourVoteBCounted wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #30

46. Bill Bored, you said it well

yes, there sure as heck are crooked drug companies.

Still, I am not going to get excited about a writer who seems to me is espousing his
opinion and not fact. I might enjoy reading that stuff, but it isn't the type of writing
that you use as a "source".

And yes even a broken clock is right twice a day.
There are all kinds in the e-voting community.

Prepostericity wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #30

48. "So, maybe the plan is to discredit all election integrity advocates."

Precisely. There is a tinfoil by association aspect to this. There is also the astroturfing done that lefties are emotional and confuse opinions and conjecture for facts. Oh, that goofy, unsubstantiated blogosphere. :banghead:

Bill Bored wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #48

53. Sure, but do you really think the reputations of Princeton professors and the like...

...were sullied because they tested and hacked some junky voting machines obtained through (ostensibly) left-wing idealogues? I think it's too late for that to stick and the behavior of those who did the testing has been very responsible.

Perhaps more damaging has been the disinformation put forth about HR811 and other legislation (including the demonization of Rush Holt), and a lack of constructive dialog to resolve those issues or to seriously propose better alternatives. Not that the legislation was perfect of course; it was seriously flawed in some important areas, but those were usually not the subject of the criticism by the disinformers. (Maybe this post belongs on this thread!)

But to be fair, legislation can be much more complicated than necessary, and it was, and those who were pushing the Holt bill didn't always get it right either. In the end it was the Dem party leadership who caved on several important provisions. Expect a replay of some or all of this in the next Congress. Of course, now with the clear Dem majority and White House, the naysayers will have no place "left" to turn.

That said, it has not gone unnoticed that if the e-voting problem were ever fixed, a lot of professional activists would have to find another cause, or be out of a job.

Not if they are disinformation writers!

Prepostericity wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #53

55. No, imho

I actually admit ignorance when it comes to election reform details. I can merely provide you with newbie responses. But I will add that I believe it is obvious that the two elections were stolen. I think It easily can be proven, too.

It was human nature of me to believe in Brad and Bev. They are the ones who say hand counted paper ballots. It was easy to think Bev was being unfairly cybersmeared.

Not everyone is on the internet that much. Many just go for sports and email. They see all that historical archive noise, and both sides look bad. People tune it out.

Most people are sympathetic to the mission of this forum. But most of us end up thinking I agree with ye, but it looks like there is nothing we can do about it.

I like internet forums. I like to read them. I like to search engine within them. I like being an amateur internet sleuth. The one thing that keeps me going forward is that the reader truly decides.

I have come out a bit loud here, because I feel like I have a contribution. One thing I will admit that bozo's was correct about. TrollBusting is a lonely business.

I think those Professors and such have not been damaged one iota. I mean, aren't you alluding to the stuff that makes Bev Harris look good?

This guy Navari was a forum bully. They were trying to get everyone to think the same or to accept their majority thoughts as being next door neighbour normal.

But sorry. Anthropogenic global warming is real. I never looked into it, but I bet HIV does cause AIDS. I bet no one is able to decode an alien language. There are no aliens!

This is a military-corporate, semi-fascist society we are living in. I think people like Kimberlin, Dunne, Mike Rivero are status quo rightwingers posing as lefties.

I was a real life activist type to a degree. I don't think Kimberlin is legit. If he were, he'd realise how bad he is making lefties look and fade away. And neither Bev, Brad, or Clint Curtis are real Democrats.

There is a website that DU doesn't allow us to name. I don't blame them. Those posers from that which must not be named, the ones who complained that DU was too rightwing for them, at the same time are busy sponsoring Michael Rivero's fascist WRH website and praising Ron Paul. Hmmm.

After Hertzberg was done with ESI, he started a website devoted to Ron Paul. :wtf:

This is right woos left, imho. It's actually kind of obvious. I have simply been a witness to it.

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #29

31. Yes, but that's only one of the things he tried to astroturf

My first inkling that Dunne was a fake was when I noticed that 99% of the posters were claiming that anthropogenic global warming was a myth, Hertzberg/Navari included.

I was at HuffPo like I said when the Plamegate story first emerged. At the same time I became aware that there were a lot of freeper type posts there. Also, because of the thread turnover format of Huffington's, it was very difficult to get anywhere. I found myself at Citizenspook's and Dunne's place. It was at Citizenspook's where I first came across Bozos. He was the first to get through to me that Dunne had no credibility.

Hertzberg did two audios with Dunne. That is how it can be known for sure that Hertzberg of ESI was posting as Navari. Some threads out there claim that it was Dunne who investigated and exposed Hertzberg, but that was not the truth. Hertzberg had been doing skype with an individual named DrewTerry. Drew refused to do that with him unless he revealed his true name.

Later on Hertzberg had a hissy fit with this strange poster named DrewTerry. Drew then revealed Navari's real name. Then a poster named ObeyLittle put two and two together. Navari had been plugging a website named RonPaulOnLine. ObeyLittle did the whois searches and Steven Hertzberg's name popped up. Then other domains registered to Hertzberg were easily figured out.

Hertzberg had this idea of "Full Spectrum Liberty." It was a phrase playing on Donald Rumsfeld's idea of full spectrum dominance.

Please keep in mind that the thread outing Navari as Steven Hertzberg was quickly deleted. However, before it was completely erased from google cache, it was saved and screenshots were taken.


Dunne has also turned Navari into a guest, making it much more difficult to read through his posts.

But here is my theory. Dunne knew exactly who Navari was the whole time. Dunne was meant to be a strawman for the idea that the internet is rigged. I believe that Hertzberg and Dunne were trying to develop something of a cult. I believe that Hertzberg's arrogance led him to coughing his real name up to DrewTerry. I think that DrewTerry is an oddball, but not a willing propagandist. It's like how OnTheOtherHand was saying one could fall for Kimberlin without necessarily being evil, in on his shite, or whatnot.

Now, once I realised what ESI was up to, which was basically the white-washing of election fraud in Ohio, it was human nature that took over my sensibilities. I then found out about Rob Pelletier. I was late to this netroots game. I didn't realise all the convolution that's been going on. It made sense to me that the exit polls were a crucial element, since why else would ESI shoot them down. Then tie that in with all the thousands of posts which certainly do appear as bev bashing ones, and I am not ashamed to say that I fell for Bozo's game.

To wrap this up, and I do hope this has helped people to start to wrap their fingers around what exactly has been going on with election integrity forums over the years, please let me outline.

*** Fintan Dunne and Wayne Madsen call out BradBlog as wrong pertaining to the Clint Curtis story.

*** Dunne takes it a nutty step further actually calling Bev Harris a 9/11 CIA rat.

*** A poster named AnonymousArmy appears quite often at DailyKos and here with other names and also goes after Brad, Curtis, Bev, etc..

*** Oddly enough, those critiquing Bradblog don't mention anything about Brett Kimberlin, the Speedway Bomber

*** Bozos appears to be unjustly treated at forums. All indications are that he had been a hero sticking up for the lady who first got the black box story out

*** AnonymousArmy and Free Republic people were behind the AndyScam

*** Andy Stephenson did have ties to Ben Burch, Mike Vreeland, Seventhson {a former DU freeper troll}, and others including good people, I admit. Not looking for tension or fights or anything, just the truth.

*** AA was referred to as Steven. I had a feeling that perhaps AA was none other than Hertzberg. Domains registered to both AA and Hertzberg led to Abacus internet services. I admit some dots are better than others. Like with how some prove something. Others nothing. Some are simply provocative and fair to speculate on.

Hearing that Connell had told Larisa he had been threatened does make it a possibility that the plane was sabotaged. Hearing that other sources have claimed a threat also on the surface gives this story some legs. But the sheer fact that Kimberlin is steeped in this, that is how I am able to be a "debunker" with swagger.

But anyway, I wrote to Bev when I had figured out about Hertzberg and the Fintan Dunne/Ron Paul stuff. She said, to paraphrase, that perhaps Hertzberg was good at getting into people's good graces, etc., which now ironically sounds like the Speedway Bomber.

One last thing. One of the first politicians, if not the first, to introduce new voting technolgies after the 2000 Florida debacle was Robert Hertzberg. I thought that was a pretty big find. Not only do Steven and Robert have the same last name, they look related. Robert Hertzberg once ran for mayor of Los Angeles. Now if they are brothers, it appears to me that Steven Hertzberg should never have been hired by Ohio. The possible brother of one of the first to sponsor new voting technology bills should not have been the one to investigate Ohio 2004. That would be a conflict of interest, no?

I just wanted the story to come out. I wanted to know and still do whether Robert and Steven are related. Again, Steven Hertzberg was at a website calling Bev Harris and BradBlog internet fakes. I was having trouble figuring out Brad's indifference.

The following is from page 19 of this pdf ... 001_17.pdf

May 17, 2001

On May 16, AB 56, by Assembly Speaker Robert Hertzberg, was placed on the Assembly Appropriation Committee’s Suspense file. This bill would require the Department of Information Technology to award grants to counties, using a 3-1 matching formula, for the purchase of updated voting systems. Specifically, it would appropriate $300 million from the State General Fund to the Department for this purpose. All counties are urged to submit letters of support to the Assembly Appropriations Committee as soon as possible.

These people never had anything to say about Hertzberg. They never had a response whenever I showed the screenshot of StevenStevenSteven praising Matt Damschroder. All Joyce McCloy had was convolution and illogical posts. Those are the exact kinds of things that paid disinfo respond with whenever someone honest makes good posts.

So instead of dealing with the tons of ideas I had come up with, McCloy went immediately into DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE SPEAK BADLY OF ANDY STEPHENSON mode.

WillYourVoteBCounted wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #31

44. you won't be welcome long if besmurching Andy Stephenson's good name


You seem to worried about rounding up folks and hanging them.

Nothing wrong with Ben Burch either.

Sometimes folks are just plain fracking human.

Prepostericity wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #44

47. I'm hearing static

I don't see where I besmirched Andy Stephenson. The man did have Mike Vreeland as a contact, and he also appears to have been affiliated with Tom Flocco. As for there being nothing wrong with Ben Burch, perhaps you could explain that to Violet Blue. Good old Ben Burch, yet another patriotic libertarian, yet another progressive moderate dominating progressive boards.

The crux of that post had to do with Steven Hertzberg of the Election Science Institute. He has now been proven as being prominently associated with a website claiming that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, that there is no man-made global warming, that Bev Harris is a 9/11 CIA rat, and other such nonsense. Fintan Dunne also claims to have decoded an alien language. Did you know that?

Now we find out from Kelvin Mace that Steven Hertzberg was prominently involved with Bev Harris before he was. What part of this having been a deliberately conceived circus act aren't you following?

I get threatened by yourself for one sentence containing Andy's name? The rest of my post bringing up disturbing FACTS about Steven Hertzberg don't bring you pause?

WillYourVoteBCounted wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #47

50. you insult Andy Stephenson, or whisper against him, and you won't win any respect or friends

You said:

*** Andy Stephenson did have ties to Ben Burch, Mike Vreeland, Seventhson {a former DU freeper troll}, and others including good people, I admit. Not looking for tension or fights or anything, just the truth.

You ARE looking for tension and fights.

Prepostericity wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #50

51. Sorry for your loss

I'm sorry your friend died of cancer. It sucks. We've all had loved ones die from it.

However, you are focusing in on one sentence from a long post that had more to do with the outrageous connections between Fintan Dunne and Steven Hertzberg of ESI. You at first had an interest in going into the Fintan Dunne character. I am confused why you have nothing to say about Steven Hertzberg.

WillYourVoteBCounted wrote: Thu Jan-01-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. DU is the wrong place to knock Andy Stephenson, Friend of Election Reform

DU is not the place to knock Andy Stephenson.

You wrote:

*** Andy Stephenson did have ties to Ben Burch, Mike Vreeland, Seventhson {a former DU freeper troll}, and others including good people, I admit. Not looking for tension or fights or anything, just the truth.

But your excuse is that this is just one of your long lists of whispers.

Prepostericity wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #56

59. sorry n/t

Then I tried to clarify the main points in the subthread, that Hertzberg and Dunne were close, that Dunne had called Bev Harris a 9/11 CIA rat, It wasn't like I didn't want to go apeshit back on that disingenuos Joyce McCloy by pointing out tons of info on the slimy Ben Burch and rest in piece, his {acting as tinfoil?} close friend, Andy Stephenson. The irony with Burch is that he has been part of the JREF debunker crap, the controlled opposition for the crazy believers. That's what is so ultimately fried about the internet. That with a bit of common sense, one can see that none of these people add up. Then what are we to do? Keep reading made up shit about Mike Connell? Give up completely on the internet? I refuse to do either. That the Mike Connell hoax bullshit is not even being mentioned that much anymore, to me, means that the fakes f#cked up in a big way and now they are going low level.

But make no mistake. I have uncovered true stories that have not been figured out anywhere else. The internet is truly being rigged. That is a bottom line truth "they" don't want to be known, unless of course it is them doing the talking about Karl Rove cointelpro trolls like they made me out to be. When I beat them into a pulp with logic and facts, that's when they went scrub brush crazy. That's why I am here right now making sure this doesn't fall down the memory hole.

Prepostericity wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #31

52. "Bev Harris is CIA" ... -cia-fakes
Fintan Dunne:

Since I published the CIA Fakes I have elaborated:

Hopsicker-Keller-Edmonds are CIA. Alex Jones is CIA.
Jimmy Walters is CIA. Stephen E. Jones is CIA.
Dan Ellsberg is CIA. Mohammed Atta & his father are CIA.
Scheuer and Ray McGovern are CIA.
David Cobb and William Rivers Pitt are CIA.
Cynthia McKinney is CIA. Judith Miller and Patrick Fitzgerald are CIA.
Wayne Madsen is CIA. Mark Zaid is CIA. Bob Woodward is CIA.
Bev Harris is CIA. Seymour Hersh is CIA. Bob Fitrakis is CIA.

When I say “is CIA”, I mean knowingly playing a direct role
in GlobIntel (CIA/NSA/MI6/KGB/etc) deception operations.

——– Fintan Dunne, ——–" onclick=";return false" onclick=";return false

You can listen to Navari talk about full spectrum liberty here:

Hertzberg's audio with "Fintan Dunne" ... 4794#14794

Then you can listen to Hertzberg speak on this google video to the Cuyahoga Board of Elections. ... 5171730408

It's the same exact guy!

So one hand, we were given the image of Steven Hertzberg as an upstanding, normal, regular guy


But in reality, he was a major player at a nutjob website called BreakForNews. Not only that, BreakForNews singled out Bev Harris as being a 9/11 CIA rat. Now we find out he was tight with Bev Harris before Bev went with Kelvin Mace?????

Fintan Dunne has been a strawman for the notion that the internet is being manipulated. Steven Hertzberg was a close associate of his. They were trying to form a cult centered around disinformation concerning psy-ops, global warming, AIDS, and other such nonsense.

Personally, I think we are looking at modern day cointelpro on the internet. Does anyone really think Fintan is a sincere blogger? Do you really think he is merely a nutjob? What's so crazy about thinking Dunne is a willing disinformation dispenser? Is this Steve Hertzberg connection not the most nutty, off-the-wall, buried aspect of "election integrity" history?

Why is this story being buried?

Why are Larisa and Brad burying Kimberlin's story?
WillYourVoteBCounted wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #52

60. that is some funny shit - maybe it should be in the lounge

hilarious - some weird shit. Cynthia McKinney CIA hahahahah

what a goof!

Your posts are bizarre!

WillYourVoteBCounted wrote:
Thu Jan-01-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #52

61. why don't you email the people instead of posting at DU?

I've not seen such bizarre crap - its as if your goal is to discredit this forum by
posting so many wild accusations.

Joyce McCloy appears to be paid to write propaganda on the internet. The way she twisted my posts, the way she ignored solid links, it is plain to see that she was the pitbull put after me. My conclusion is that the "electoral integrity movement" is affiliated with modern day cointelpro.

Last one. I will make more posts in the future on this stuff. I can't give a time. But I did say I wanted to cover ~A, Anthony Levensalor, of Watching the Watchers, RawStory, and Velvet Revolution. There was also that strange poster named Straw_Citizen with her 15 year old pot smoking friend. Hmmm. That sounded like Kimberlin's Justice Through Music bullshit of working with a marijuana website. In short, while these spooks are ultimately stupid, they make up for their intellectual shortcomings by piling on the noise, controlling major forums, and by applying the scrub brush with their worst case scenarios.

I am a hero. These people are the lowest of the low.

As regards to the Erin Bailey who shows up in the next thread, we can assume that was indeed Bev Harris or someone acting as Bev Harris with Bev's full support and awareness. The same can be said for Straw_Citizen. This was a script. The whole thing has been scripted. It wouldn't have taken that many of them to pull this off. Think about it.

Prepostericity wrote:
Wed Dec-31-08 10:34 PM

42. Any ideas?

Bev Harris stole most of her "research"

This is the first time I've seen this one. Curiouser and curiouser.


posted by Kelvin Mace:
Bev Harris stole most of her "research from Steven Hertzberg (Yes, Bev, I talked to him) and did what little original research she did when she was being paid by Steven. She planned to do a book with him, then dumped him when I came along. (I was not aware of Steven's contribution until after Bev pulled a similar stunt with me in pursuit of qui tam money.)

Bev Harris has betrayed person after person in her pursuit of money and fame. She was banned from DU and now her shill is trying to rehabilitate her reputation here.

Ain't going to happen.

Folks this is a person who is cozy with Freepers and claims George Bush is on her side. It doesn't get much more deluded than that....

Here's one more link. I'm not sure if it got lost. But this appears to have been made by a real person caught in the middle of the script.

Regarding Andy Stephenson, Bev Harris and Randi Rhodes
Must_B_Free wrote:
Wed Dec-15-04 03:26 AM
Original message

Here is what I recall:

Randi told Bev that Andy Stephenson was no longer working with her.

Bev was surprised to hear this.

Bev calls the directors who ALL jointly decide to nix Andy Stephenson.

Now Bev is the "sinner" according to David Allen who delights in holding up her "sin" for all to see and pass judgement.

Oh yeah and Andy Stephenson knows Delmart "Mike" Vreeland of 123 No Credibility Drive, Bullshitville USA. Says Vreeland called him from jail when he got arrested most recently.

Do I have that right?

This person was caught between the Andy Stephenson cult and the Bash Bev Cult. Something'sGottaGive appears to have been AnonymousArmy. If AA hadn't colluded with freepers and the, I might be leaning to think AA was for real. I think he was part and parcel of the script.

SomthingsGotaGive wrote:
Wed Dec-15-04 04:23 AM
Response to Original message

6. Although you have very little credibility on the issue...

Due of course to your breathless support of Bev.

I think we may be best served if we assume Andy Has been an active member of for a long time.

I think could be phony through and through.

What better way to keep a mole among us than to ostracize Andy very publicly so we all feel sorry for him.

I'm not buying anything or anyone closely related to Bev.

Must_B_Free sounded for real, imho.

Must_B_Free wrote:
Wed Dec-15-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #6

10. Fact correction

"Due of course to your breathless support of Bev."

Ironically, I think I was the FIRST person to attack Bev, going way back to her appearance.

My feeling at that time was that she came on DU and quickly started orchestrating the activities of people. I felt that the direction to download the Diebold source code was potentially dangerous in that it could open DU members to legal jeopardy.

Bev explained that away to my satisfaction . That, and the passion of others convinced me that she was legitimate. Also I felt that I had observed enough accomplishments in regards to BBV that vindicated her.

One interesting note is that BBV all went to Florida, when the real prize was in Ohio, although maybe it was good to have two fronts open. I think they were comfortable in Fla because they knew their way around there from the post 2000 investigation.

But I haven't looked at any of her other posts. I am just basing my trust for her with this one thread. The last post made kind of sums everything up in a nutshell. I believe it is the last choice that best represents the truth.

Must_B_Free wrote:
Wed Dec-15-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #7

9. I agree

the credibility is waning severely.

the question is why?

- honest infighting of inflated egos?
- intentional deception by external operatives who joined BBV to sabotage it?
- the movement itself was a red herring?

hard to tell.
Nobody - I mean nobody - pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini