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That Old Sinking Feeling

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That Old Sinking Feeling

Unread postby Don Smith » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:37 am

{with merged thread, the adjusted view count is +173}

The tale-" The Emperors' New Clothes" seems quite apt here and now.

How is it that millions see, yet they are blind? The construct of "reality" which we as human beings operate in is not necessarily consistent with objective facts. We tend to scew observable phenomena to fit our prejudices.
Hitler said that politics is not about facts, politics work on feelings.
When we are presented with information which does not "fit" our preconcieved notions of truth, we tend to immediately reject the new observation, whether or not the phenomena is objectively factual.
This is not a moral question, this is a genetically coded program which served humanity quite well, thank you, for many thousands of years. as the tribes and families of the human species fought for survival over the millienia.
There were few truly new events to challenge the basic hunter/gatherer tribes as they struggled for survival through the centuries. If one went into a cave for shelter and found a giant bear in residence, one or the other would have dinner. very simple, very neat, and certainly not mixed up with anything like an " existential crisis".
With the advent of agriculture, permanent sites of human tribal groups were formed about the best lands and "civilization" began.
This allegory is in the book of Genesis, as Cain, ( the farmer) slays his brother Abel,(the shepherd), and permanent human cities become the norm as a model of people's activities, going against thousands of years of human development as hunter gatherers.
With this development came mathematics, literacy, and the bane of free people, literacy.
With the growth of written language, the use of memory and the oral traditions of humanity were lessened. More and more, the written word became the standard of 'truth" and before too many centuries had passed, the literate became the keepers of the law.
Plato quotes Socrates as lamenting the invention of the alphabet, as it will lead to the demise of memory, and to the end of the living tradition of shared knowledge, remember, for centuries"The Illiad" was an oral poem. The loss of shared memory would lead to a separation from the the past, and ultimately, from each other, ( a modern equivalent might be found in the lack of literacy among those who see the world through electronic media).
This tradition is most pronounced in Western Civilization by the legal precedent set by the Jews, a semetic group highly influenced by the Phoenicians, Babylonians and Egyptians. With the Mosiac Law as the foundation of their particular culture, they set a standard for national and racial identity which persists to the present time.
The idea that a central authority, blessed by the Almighty of course, was the guide for state policy, was adopted by the Romans, and every government since Constantine has claimed "divine guidance".
Now whether any particular government has a right to claim that God truly is it's particular guide is really yet to be seen, but that will certainly not stop the multitude of governmental claims to Divine guidance.
Now we here at the beginning of a new century find that we stand on the edge of a new dark age. Tyranny and terror prosper. Greed and ignorance seem to be the order of the day.
We must remember that nations, state organizations, central authority over millions are a new thing to humanity, that we are well suited to drive a bear out of a cave, we are not genetically disposed to deal with problems or groups larger than our own particular tribe.
The challenge we face is to show that we are all part of the same tribe, that there is no such thing as "race" or "nationality", that this planet is our only home, and that we are merely borrowing it from our children, yet to be born.
Don Smith
 

Unread postby socrates » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:25 pm

I like reading your philosophies. One thinker who got through to me was the Brazilian Paulo Freire who wrote Pedagogy of the Oppressed. He said that not only do people need to be literate, that they need to get beyond the oppressors' definitions and their primers with limited vocabulary.

I set up this hidden section just in case crazy posts sneak in, and we don't necessarily want to delete them, maybe just edit out anything not appropriate for public viewing.

It is also a place where I moved the thread explaining what happened to all those July posts, why the view counts dropped dramatically. I'm actually quite pleased with FreeForums right now. The place seems to upload a lot faster, the place has no ads, and seems to be a fully functioning board as good as any of them.

They made a mistake, and it wasn't on purpose, and it just happened. I was just feeling uncomfortable having that thread in the open. This isn't censorship. It's just common sense not to bite the hand that feeds you.

I think this is the kind of thread that could be in the open. If it's ok with you Don, I will move this thread to the big board. I know there is the comment about "the Jews," and I am interested in what you meant. I know that May41970 has been a reader of WhatReallyHappened and Mike Rivero, until too many things just started not to add up, that it turns out that Rivero is tied in with anti-peace forces. Both of you guys are the most prolific posters at this place. I want both of you to feel comfortable here and help give this forum some shape.

Your post, Don, it reminds me of John Lennon's song Imagine. I also agree that the ptb's are into shaping the collective consciousness.

I am hoping this "member's only" section will be used as a last resort. So with your permission, Don, I would like to move this thread to the open.

And I don't mind if either or both of you want to bring up controversial topics. I trust that both of you love every single person on the planet as much as possible. I don't want anyone walking on eggshells. I just want us to use the best sources possible if we are gonna venture into the hot potatoes.

I feel like I am just about done trying to expose the chemtrail forum fakes. I also believe there is a lot now at this website for the newbies and those on the fence to see that not all of us "chemmies" are deluded.

This forum's main focus is to provide a safe haven for real people interested in figuring out the aerosol operations, who don't want to be associated with crazy posts.



Modern society can be very alienating. This place is for real and kind people to just let it rip from the heart.

Perhaps soon in the future, we will have more members, and even more shots in the arm boosting chemtrails awareness.

I appreciate yourselves for caring enough to ask wtf is going on. I am sure there are more good people out there who will eventually sign up and help us make the case that the chemtrails are not only real, but that they are somehow also "legal," that there are ways to get them exposed and stopped, that the truth goes far beyond the chemtrails are kooky astroturfing.

No one likes to be told what to think. Everyone wants to have the right to decide what makes sense and what doesn't. This forum is still raw and wide open and looking for people to help give it its form.

So, if it's ok with you Don, I would like to move this thread to the main board.

I also just again want both of you and others to know that I am starting to settle down, feel more comfortable, and that I wouldn't be at this point if it weren't for yourselves and the few others who signed up here. Peace.
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Unread postby socrates » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:44 pm

I'm trying not to get in the habit of posting pm's. It can be a bit time consuming. Unfortunately, some very good forum talk occasionally derives from the inbox. Don has given me permission to post the following recent exchanges.

RE: "WTF"
31 Jul 2007
[quote="Don Smith"]I just came home from work and on a whim, I made what will be my last visit to Swampgas' cafe.
There was a very scurilous post I found concerning you, no substance, just a rave about how you were "over the edge" and were a meth freak, more of same. you are probably aware of this, and in a way, I feel guilty sending you this msg.
my point is how the hell can anyone take people like that seriously?
It sounded like the fucking sock-hop in Junior high school.
The world is crashing down about our ears and these little pissants spend time on being the most "hip"?
I am slow to post info here as I am putting in tremendous amounts of overtime,(80hrs in July) and I want what I post to be worth the time of others, so I vet the damn things as thoroughly as I can.
My Granpa used to tell me to never argue with a fool, as anyone watching wont be able to tell who's who.
Another saying of his seems apt, don't run yourself down, ever, as there are plenty of people ready to do that for you.
Peace to you and yours-Don




[quote="socrates"]
Hi Don, one thing I've noticed about ourselves is that we both ended up at the same forums, that we have similar ideas. {gastronamus and breakfornews.}

I wrote almost 800 posts at Gastro. They were all pretty much saying this is what I found, this is what I think, any ideas folks? And then that guy Halva would always come up with the strangest comments. Before I knew it, I was researching all the archives. My background is sociological/history, my mom got sick the last years, basically I had the time to make a lot of posts.
{One of your posts somewhere, I noticed u also had a family thing, and I wish you godspeed with that.)

The more I got into it, the chemtrails, the more it seemed to me that there are no doubts that they are real. So I just keep asking myself, how the **** can this continue as it is. The **** hit the fan at the beginning of this year. Chem11 and swamp had a big blow up.

I think swamp banning me would have worked, but he had to also ban Halva. This is the problem with a lot of these recurrent chemtrail board characters. Unless you read a lot of what they post, it is easy to miss some of the strangesat crap they are putting up. Lou Aubuchont? Newbies are gonna end up seeing his posts. His associate or whatever took the "Deep Sky" interviews. Will Thomas used those interviews as a cornerstone of his investigative work. Now Lou is saying he can wipe out clouds with his own mind.

Sorry to ramble. This is so convoluted, and like you say, there are only so many hours in the day. I will try to keep my wits, my health ok. Thanks for the kind wishes.

Yeah about how everyone involved in a public scene looks bad. That is their strategy. That is why this forum was started. They hate me because I devoted a lot of time to figuring out the social dynamics, the history of the major chemtrail boards.

But yeah, that can also be off-putting. Most people probably just want the lowdown on chemtrails, the truth, not some high school crap like you described.

Lately I figured out a proxy site, very cool, no one can ever be banned, which is democratic, anyway, i'll try to wrap this up, because some of us are working hard, good job by you in real life. But yeah, I went to gastro a few weeks ago. No more MadCitizen, who seems real. I noticed you put up some good posts, yet no one seemed to try to engage you, or expand on it.

I noticed swamp twice saying i am ed snell/yaak. That is outrageous. Where is the substance. Maybe they really are a bunch of cointelpro- swamp, increase1776, halva, ....

anyway, it gets so convoluted that i have tried to speak of the fakery in general terms, but then they push me, or i see crap, like with aubuchont lately, and i'm like, wtf, get him the hell off the chemtrail boards.

I think they are just trying to turn myself and may41970 and others into kooky by association.

I like the saying, let the reader decide.

I may be an *** sometimes. I may be long-winded.

But when they say i am a meth addict or that i am not intelligent or that i am ed snell, that i am cointelpro, i say let the reader decide.

But the problem is while the reader is deciding this stuff, the chemtrails continue and the breathing gets more difficult.

They hate me because i don't think chemtrails are genocide or mind control and that i do think we need to cross t's and dot i's.

sorry for the ramble, I just have had a lot of free time the last year, can type fast, can read fast.

Man, your last posts have been so good, they remind me of my studies, when I'd have to reread stuff. Thanks. Peace.


[quote="socrates"]Hey Don, in the wrh thread, i posted a lot about how there is a right wing conspiracy on the internet-- the barnes review stuff. I also linked to swampgas linking to the barnes review. Now why did i just find out about this. Is not Break for news the place that should have this type of **** front and center? Not to sound pompous, but i think swamp and them have been busted as fakes. I haven't come out and just said this to you, because i didn't want it to sound like the high school stuff you wrote in the email.

I do want to let the reader decide. I even think the reader should have the right to ignore.

Some of that wrh thread is good ****. I am proud of it. Now if swamp or whoever wants to call me a meth addict, fine. But why is he linking to the barnes review? That's why i try to link to the guardian or to **** that looks credible.

I like the term rense-robots. That's the feel i get from these major chemtrail boards and other internet places.

I just didn't want to shove this in ur face, that high school analogy u talked about stuff.

But I went through some of ur posts. I am a lefty peacenik too. I do appreciate your high powered intellect. My goal in life is to take high powered ideas and put them into words that anyone can understand.

Peace. Not just saying it, but your last posts were very interesting. I just might not respond all the time, because even with myself, i am seeing too much "socrates." But the board was yound, so i felt i had to get some content up on the board, so when new people come here, they can scroll, look around, see if there is anything of interest. I am sure we won't be getting too many conservatives showing up.

Yeah, I put up images of john lennon, mother theresa, and gandhi. As colbert said at the wh press shindig, reality has a liberal bias.

Take care. Peace.



[quote="Don Smith"]I have found very few sites where the content didn't contain some "tell" which set off alarm bells. The ones I trust most are more journalism, like Chris Floyd, with a slight push toward discussion.
The sites reflect the pathology of the culture,(win/lose, right/left, etc.) and to look for more is not easy.
As to the day to day nuts and bolts of your personal writings, don't be shy about saying what you will, Shakespeare wrote some crap too, and the totality comes accross quite well.
The higher up the coconut tree the monkey climbs, the more people see his ***.



[quote="socrates"]Sorry if I made a stupid joke, the "commie pinko" type. I am a lefty. I appreciate what you are posting. Thanks for giving this place a boost.


[quote="Don Smith"]Don't give it a thought.
As far as being a "lefty", a leftist is a godam Goldwater Republican to me.
I am an anarchist, not the stereotypical, bomb throwing fanatic, not the nihilistic, despairing neurotic of comic book fiction,(the "New York Times", for instance), but rather , heir to the ideas of Bakunin, Emma Goldmann, and thousands of nameless people that could see a future for humanity in which duress would not be necessary.
A society in which force was not part of relationships, a society of freedom of thought and creativity in which fulfilment of life was the goal, without all the neurotic, narcissistic, acquisitive, fearful compunctions which dominate the mass culture of the present system.
I am a great fan of free speech, free expression, free everything so long as pain is not the object.
I have been slow to post many things here as I saw it as a more "scientific' endeavor, with the exposure of the crime of chemtrails as the goal.
And, you have taken the initiative to set this up, so it's your show, Bud. I just wait for further clarification of the parameters of the game plan.




[quote="socrates"]

[quote="Don Smith"]
Don't give it a thought.
As far as being a "lefty", a leftist is a godam Goldwater Republican to me.
I am an anarchist, not the stereotypical, bomb throwing fanatic, not the nihilistic, despairing neurotic of comic book fiction,(the "New York Times", for instance), but rather , heir to the ideas of Bakunin, Emma Goldmann, and thousands of nameless people that could see a future for humanity in which duress would not be necessary.
A society in which force was not part of relationships, a society of freedom of thought and creativity in which fulfilment of life was the goal, without all the neurotic, narcissistic, acquisitive, fearful compunctions which dominate the mass culture of the present system.
I am a great fan of free speech, free expression, free everything so long as pain is not the object.


Hi Don, thanks for the feedback. I totally agree with what you wrote. No matter how the media and whatnot tries to distort idealistic people like ourselves, we know what we know.

My example is Hellen Keller. Everyone knows how she learned to read, write, become a genius against all odds, but no one knows about her socialist beliefs, her support for those who struggle.

In school we get force fed Animal Farm, but we don't really hear too much about 1984, which was a critique of the West.

I like reading your philosophies. If people think we are too high brow or whatever, that is not our concern. I try to put high powered ideas into words that anyone can understand.


I have been slow to post many things here as I saw it as a more "scientific' endeavor, with the exposure of the crime of chemtrails as the goal.
And, you have taken the initiative to set this up, so it's your show, Bud. I just wait for further clarification of the parameters of the game plan.



Myself and May41970 came over here because we were getting trolled big time at Debate Both Sides.

I am pretty much done being Fintan Dunne Jr.. I realise it is the chemtrails that are the biggest problem, not "Lou Aubuchont." Yet, I have also thought that Fintan Dunne was put in place to usurp any authentic research into astroturfing. There's some wierd stuff going on there. That guy Navari, I always felt he was a plant. Just too aggressive. Same with a lot of them. Even Ormond. He wrote about how he met Cliff Carnicom years ago. Just too many damn coincidences. That Jerry Fletcher guy. If you google that name, it's got a wierd message in itself about people who believe in "conspiracy theories." I did find a google cache of "Wag the World," that Navari guy is supposely a steven hertzberg, not sure of speeling, but can find it for you. Turns out he is involved with election counting somehow.

Sorry for this ramble.

I do feel the need to clarify why I used to think Rosalind Peterson was hiding something, so yet again, I will be going into the murky waters of Megasprayer.

I also have come across the NASA teaching chemtrails to kids, so I can put that up on the chemtrail subliminal thread. Now why we can't just get that story without Will Thomas' name attached, these are the types of things that **** me off.

I also have this new idea where I am gonna try to translate the Italian chemtrail forum, look through it, see what they have, that isn't known here on the english speaking forums.

Yes, I do want chemmies to come here and be able to read chemtrail type stuff in the main section. Feel free to post whenever and whatever you want to.

I know that fake stuff can be a bit too much, but I think it was important for anyone to just say enough is enough with the kookiness. It is difficult enough to figure out chemtrails without seeing this Lou Aubuchont all over the place.

I am a bit burnt out, but I also have some ideas which could freshen up the place. I'm trying to wean myself off the fake this fake that. It is tough to do, because it is the easiest crap to show. Pouring through those NOAA, NASA pdfs is no fun.

I'm actually hopeful we can get some dialogue like this on the board. Get some clarity.

Thanks again. Peace.




[quote="Don Smith"]Everything said on phones, written down, or transmitted is open information.
Put my wonderful prose where you will, it's fine with me. If I commit anything to paper, I see it as public information, my only shortcoming is my overwhelming modesty.






[quote="Don Smith"]RE: "the Jews"

My reference was to the structure of the culture and society which the law of Moses framed.
Other cultures had formalised the law, but the Hebrews expanded study of the law to the entire society, rather than to a group of priests or scribes. In this way, a bond of idealogy was put in place, one which separated all the members of the sect from corrupt outside influences, and the word of the Almighty was a powerful incentive to belief and obedience to the authority of the new system.
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There's just no winning

Unread postby may41970 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:51 am

We can't play Gameboy and expect to win on somebody else's gameboy. Just do a google search on me or you. We come across as scum. Only our worst, our dumbest, the most idiotic posts from others about us show up. Posts we made months or years ago, irrelevant ********.

We can't win playing on the internet. It's their gameboy. They win, we lose.

Someone wants to find out who are may41970 and socrates and checks us out on the intenet? We look like scum.

We can't win when we're playing on their gameboy. Sorry for the depressing post, but it's how I feel right now. You tell me how we can beat GoDaddy and Bob Parsons, or whatever the ************'s name is.

Bob Parsons, the guru. There's some old expression I remember hearing somewhere. "The whisper of one rich man is louder than the braying of 10,000 paupers."

Man, I really love that picture of Bob Parsons at his website. He is so freaking cool. He's got an earring; He's even got two (count'em TWO) hot chicks standing over him while he pumps up his Harley.
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Yahoo Seems Fairer

Unread postby socrates » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:55 am

It looks like this is tied in with google ads. If you type in will thomas, aubuchont into yahoo, we appear.

Money is being made off of corrupting google. The more web clicks, the more money for these creeps. so they steal the web clicks. They hijack our words. They even admit this. Tinoire said google chemtrails, socrates. So this is both political and economic tyranny. This may be a small operation, but we put together somewhat of a brand name. So they take our energy and twist it into web clicks. They don't want our political message heard either, so they twist the googler to make us look like the devil.

Inequality on the internet is a big problem. We need some kind of regulation to level the playing field. It's like when schools get so bad there is a need for busing. Sure, it's not cool that students have to travel long distances to get a better education, but something has to be done when things are so unfair.

The internet is corrupt. We now know this firsthand.
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