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Democratic Underground Busted

manufactured grassroots, disinfo, and insidious marketing

Democratic Underground Busted

Unread postby socrates » Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:48 pm

{with the merged thread, the adjusted view count is +243}


It has now been established who is behind the Democratic Underground, and it is not pretty. Rivero done. DailyKos done. Yet another gatekeeper has been exposed.

Who are they, indeed - DU ownership busted!?!?
by John

Wow, this trial suddenly got a lot more interesting, at least for the prosecutor.

I've always wondered why David Allen, aka Kelvin Mace, and his gang of thugs at DU get away with anything and everything. How could DU, supposedly a site for Democrats, allow them to do what they do?


DU's Registered Agent - donations to George Bush and Rudy, former FBI agent, lobbyist for National Association of Bankruptcy Trustees, represents industries/businesses against common folks, and more!


Now I've got your attention ;)


Anyone who tells you a registered agent for a corporation is not important, is full of it. To prove this, just check into Thor Hearne of the now-defunct American Center for Voting Rights (ACVR) - which Brad Friedman has spent countless hours reporting about. The ACVR was a right wing phony voting rights outfit.

DU's registered agent is Potomac Programs, Inc., owned by the law firm Howe, Anderson & Steyer. Potomac Programs appears to be a mystery, but it's beyond dispute that the law firm owns it, and therefore, the law firm is for all practical purposes, the registered agent for DU.

Let's see what neat things we can find out about Howe, Anderson & Steyer ;)


1. Hey, there's Richard Steyer "HOWE, ANDERSON & STEYER"donating to George Bush, Rudy Giuliania, and another Republican!

{me-Socrates. This cache is not available right now but was last night. Hmmm.}

2. Whoa, James Anderson is a former FBI agent!

{me-Socrates- I wonder if he ever heard of Cointelpro?}

3. Year, after year, after year, Howe, Anderson & Steyer lobby for the National Association of Bankruptcy Trustees! I'm sure that will bring a lot of comfort to people at DU having lots of financial problems.

{me- Underground my arse}


4. I strongly suggest not hiring these guys if you have suffered, and want to file a large claim against a company!

5. Do you believe, like I do, that the rich and powerful receive "way too large" severance packages? Looks like Howe, Anderson & Steyer don't feel like us.

6. Retired miners might want to watch their backs!

7. If you have a problem with a metal roofing company...

8. I really like this one - "Mr. Howe specializes in representing associations and corporations in employment and labor law matters. Mr. Howe has represented clients in collective bargaining, unfair labor practice cases, representation proceedings, discrimination suits, wrongful discharge cases, wage and hour investigations, and the negotiation of individual employment contracts. Mr. Howe has lectured and counseled clients in matters pertaining to *** discrimination, age discrimination, race discrimination, disability discrimination, workers' compensation, OSHA, ERISA, MSHC, the Fair Labor Standards Act, and the Equal Pay Act. He also has advised and assisted association and corporate clients in the formation and administration of captive insurance companies, group insurance plans, and Taft-Hartley trusts. He has represented clients in federal and state regulatory and legislative proceedings..."


I'm sure there's much more, but all this research has tired me out for the night. One thing is clear though - if everyone knew who DU's registered agent is, a lot of folks might wonder wtf?

I, on the other hand, will no longer wonder...

John


A Steven Hertzberg has been posting at a small time conspiracy forum called break for news. The following is from a google cache which , hmmm, it's no longer available. These insidious astroturfers need to be stopped.

This specific creep's specialty has been to downplay the validity of exit polls in confirming the 2004 stolen election. He exposed himself at this obscure website by linking to his blog supporting Ron Paul, an obvious right woo left distraction.

[quote="Paulo_Freire"][quote="Fintan"]
And I agree that the thread should not have been deleted.


Ok then, here is from the last page from the cache, before that gets deleted.

This is G o o g l e's cache of breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25961 as retrieved on Jul 22, 2007 22:11:37 GMT.
G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled the web. The page may have changed since that time.



[quote="DrewTerry"]
Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:53 pm

[quote="navari"]
[quote="obeylittle"]
Navari, that exchange was your personal business to handle. You are a big boy and can take care of yourself, so carry your own water, tough sounding as that may be. There is no other logical choice for me to make. Had you asked for help though, I'm certain you have received it.



This is not about some meaningful intellectual argument that one can
respond to in an intelligent rational way, but about childish rants from
an emotionally disturbed individual. I don't need anyone's assistance,
nor do i need to request it, in order to participate in a calm rational
debate. However, this is an entirely different matter.

But I can tell you this, if I had witnessed this happen to ANY ONE ELSE on
B4N I would have stepped up to the plate and attempted to stop the
outlandish behavior.

I'm extremely disappointed.

Drew, if you were ever to speak to me, or anyone else, like that in my presence, I would demolish you physically.

You would not get away with such behavior in my presence.....period.

I'm going to step away for some time and re-evaluate whether B4N
continues to be a place where I wish to invest my time.


Gee, thanks DAD! Can I go to my room now?

That sounds awfully like FULL SPECTRUM DOMINANCE to me...what happened to opposing DOMINANCE for LIBERTY?

But do you really? Promise you want to get physical?

Don't get me all worked up for nothing now...I get really upset when I am intentionally deceived.

But to be honest I could really use a good *** kicking, believe me!

Since I quit freestyle kickboxing I really miss those all day asskicking marathons sometimes. It's been three years now since I last had to get any stitches and I haven't knocked a tooth out since last century.

So this is Great - I can't wait!

Win the $1 million dollar bet so you can afford to fly here and ring my doorbell.

I don't hide my identity and I have no motive; can you say the same?

Way to go big boy!

Threaten me, whine, kick, scream, pout and punch the wall til you are blue in the face.

You want to scare someone?

Go look in the mirror.

And let me reassure you, Mr. Steven Hertzberg

I AM LAUGHING MY FUCKING *** OFF.

_________________
Nothing that makes sense to NAVARI counts;
NAVARI counts nothing that makes sense.




[quote="obeylittle"]
Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:21 pm

Navari,

I would not get involved in your personal life. I would not for any reason -- other than witnessing a physical attack underway -- choose up sides, defend, or take up your cause. As you observed, others here respected your person and left it up to you to respond any way you see fit.

If you and your wife argue and she calls you names in the heat of emotion, do you, or would you tolerate outsiders jumping in? If you argue with a friend or co-worker and another person butts in choosing sides with your opposition, is that acceptable to you, two against one? Is it really another person's business or responsibility?

I meant what I said, I honestly feel that way. It is a matter of personal ethics to me. As you know, help will be made available anytime you need it. To ask for anything more in a personal exchange of words, is ethically wrong. Think about it please, from other's perspective.

All of this drama serves to derail the thread so that is sad... but only one or two or so have actually exchanged on points raised here anyway. Wonderful how this all fits in nicely, huh?

Now, your physical threat toward Drew is another ethical matter entirely! Just who in sam-hell do you think you are?

Would you like my opinion on that too? Standing by...



[quote="just0"]
Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:52 pm

Kathy, thats powerful stuff !!
Thank you for keeping the ball rolling !!

Heres some more;
Ancient wisdom from the Toltec.


1. Be Impeccable With Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself
or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

2. Don't Take Anything Personally (<<< ESPECIALLY IN INTERNET FORUMS)
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality,
their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the
victim of needless suffering.

3. Don't Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others
as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement,
you can completely transform your life.

4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy
as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment,
self-abuse and regret.
miguelruiz.com/fouragreements.html



And I found theres lot of truth to these too...

Consciousness = Memory of ones own actions leading to knlowledge and self control.
Knowledge of oneself = Conscious control and self-determinism. i.e. You are in charge of YOU.




[quote="obeylittle"]
Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:02 pm

Hmmm... You insisted on this thread being personal Steve, with your gift of direct physical personal threat. Must we then..? If you insist, Mister!

Are you, or are you not, the proprietor of the following websites:
whois.domaintools.com/fullspectrumliberty.com
whois.domaintools.com/heartmountaingroup.com
whois.domaintools.com/ronpaulonline.com
whois.domaintools.com/pathocrat.com

That last one looks interesting, lets step back a few paces and expand the view a bit:
Registration Service Provided By: Election Science Institute
Contact: Whois Privacy and Spam Prevention by DomainTools.com

Domain name: pathocrat.com

Administrative Contact:
Election Science Institute
Steven Hertzberg (Whois Privacy and Spam Prevention by DomainTools.com)
+1.6504292150
Fax: +1.6504292150
2269 Chestnut Street
611
San Francisco, CA 94123
US

Technical Contact:
Election Science Institute
Steven Hertzberg (Whois Privacy and Spam Prevention by DomainTools.com)
+1.6504292150
Fax: +1.6504292150
2269 Chestnut Street
611
San Francisco, CA 94123
US

Registrant Contact:
Election Science Institute
Steven Hertzberg (Whois Privacy and Spam Prevention by DomainTools.com)
+1.6504292150
Fax: +1.6504292150
2269 Chestnut Street
611
San Francisco, CA 94123
US

Status: Locked

Name Servers:
ns1.heartmountaingroup.com
ns2.heartmountaingroup.com
Creation date: 04 Jul 2007 03:03:11
Expiration date: 04 Jul 2008 03:03:11


Hmm... Steven Hertzberg... ESI, huh? Where have I seen that company before..? Eureka!
uscountvotes.org/ucvAnalysis/US/exit-polls/ESI/ESI-hypothesis-illogical.pdf
uscountvotes.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=130&Itemid=84
MORE...

Were you busy dissipating the "smoke" coming from that "smoking gun of the 2004 Election", Steve? Are you, or are you not, this Mr. Steven Hertzberg?

I see you are a Militant, err... Military Man... as well. SOooo.., Are you a RAT, Steve? Are your partners working the forums here at BFN RATS too, Steve? Is your hair on fire...? Only you can put it out! Speak up please!?


post saved before the google cache got scrubbed

When I get the chance, I'd like to post on the election fraud astroturfing that seems to link DailyKos with the Democratic Underground. I am also curious to see how the Progressive Independent responds to this new information brought forward about what the Democratic Underground really is.

The internet is almost completely corrupted. We are now down to only having pockets of awareness. The cointelpro is alive and well. It must be obvious to many now, this manipulation. All "they" can do now is raise the noise level.

The Democratic Underground is an insidious entity. Gratitude is expressed to the writer for figuring out the above. We would have never found out these truths by reading at P.I.. They are busy playing activists, instead of seeing how they are getting played.

If they can't carve into the DU now, then Progressive Independent is cleary a useful idiot kind of place.

But they've got the best smilies! Even if it's impossible to search their website, those smilies sure do make one feel warm inside. {sarcasm}

{on edit- I changed "Progressive Underground" to Progressive Independent- sorry for any confusion}
Last edited by socrates on Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Top

This is Internet Cointelpro

Unread postby socrates » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:01 am

The "Complicity Watch" section at Progressive Independent has been taken down. There is stuff going on in the background. I do believe at this time that the webmasters of that website are good people. However, it appears that certain posters at that website are just more of the same trolls we have come to recognize.

The trouble started when I started a thread in that section asking who is really behind the Democratic Underground. One poster named seventhson was saying it was all smoke, no fire, that DU is just trying to do what is politically expedient. Basically, he was saying nothing to see here, move along.

Oh no. When it is shown that the backers of DU are corporate stogges, when it has been shown that a backer has made donations to GW Bush, when do we say ENOUGH ALREADY, THIS IS A GATEKEEPER.

It's not just about DU or DailyCiaKOS or Mike Rivero. It's about practically the whole stinking internet. Not all of it. I am not giving up completely. But the cointelpro pigs are stinking up the joint, they are denying us of our fundamental human rights of freedom of speech and association.


Gonna copy and paste a bit.
It's time to drop the hammer on the whole stinkin' racket.


DailyKos and the CIA
# tmb Says:
August 11th, 2007 at 2:36 am

Ah, Daily Kos, he can correct me if I am wrong but from what I know of the training there, as a good friend is quite familiar with it, his nutty statements make it likely the evidence might just prove he applied to and was “accepted” and still is receiving some “help” from his buds at Langley ala Mr. Pope of the Nat’l Enquirer who was a CIA Psych warfare expert and set up the rag w/CIA cash to discredit certain topics to cause them ridicule and to disappear same from mainstream discussion (UFOs, believed to exist and shot at by the military by the way, among others - i.e. Psych warfare on USA soil by the CIA = illegal activity now basically admitted and ignored as usual by the msm) no doubt he operates under some “operation” or other (CHAOS, GARDEN PLOT, COINTELPRO II etc.)

To quote Al Pacino’s Tony Montana “I never liked heem . . .” - - He is a supposed “progressive liberal” (what does that mean anyway, we stay in Iraq another 50 years and have a STASI police state “democracy”?) but bans “conspiracy” discussion/people off his site, he’s a joke but now he’s the “official” spokesman for the “defined” limit of the “crazy” left - - Bill O’Reilly said so, get it? - thus it must be true that he is the “radical” left and his site has received millions of hits as a result of O’Reilly who is his “enemy” you can hear them yuking that one up at Langley (meanwhile they will never, and I mean NEVER, mention Anthony Sutton, a true patriot, who proved that Wall Street financed both Stalin and Hitler as well as the North Vietnamese working all against each other in a Hegelian Dialectic and making a “killing” on mass murder i.e. Sutton was willing to ruin his career - - he wasn’t going to be part of the “team” bought off nor at Langley to “quit” to go to work for the “Dean team” - - barf me, barf me . . .) - - yet again we see the Hegelian/Straussian dialectic in action “defining” what is “left” “progressive” “right” “fascist” “communist” etc. when you define and control both “sides”, as Anthony Sutton proved was/is going on w/the Wall Streeters, you (the old/new moneyed fascist elite) can’t lose, just the rest of us peons . . . See antonysutton.com

Possibly of note to others who consider themselves “progressives”, I noticed that I was unofficially/quietly banned at TPM from posting (which I only did maybe once every two weeks or so), a site I do/did like that has broken some nice Gonzales/firing prosecutor stuff (as I am a past prosecuting attorney/in the military at 18 type i.e. no “bleeding heart” hippy . . . and can’t believe the joke the “Department Of Justice (err, Department Of Rove)” has become . . .)but I believe the site is getting weaker, b/c I posted a few times on Operation Mockingbird, Chaos etc. and the fact that WaPo has many active writers who have been proven as compromised by the CIA etc. . . soon my postings didn’t “post” anymore, my emails as to why not went unanswered, I had become a “Kafka” roach I guess on the liberal site and “disappeared” w/o trial . . . my comments were not in any way ravings or abusive or offensive and they generally cited to sources like Bernstein’s Rolling Stone article on the CIA’s op Mockingbird etc., but it is clear that the site operator wants to be a part of the “respectable media” and even though they break stories that the MSM is seeemingly avoiding they will not actively and completely go after the phoney msm Wapo etc. or go toward the “conspiracy theoricist” area in step ala Chomsky, the Nation, Corn et al - - (Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Corn did some work for the State Dept that was very close to CIA type stuff and he will not tolerate any conspiracy JFK, RFK, MLK etc. type info as having any validity, the evidence of which he just ignores or misrepresents, nor will of course Chomsky who is the “elect” dissident for the USA, he can continue on “protesting” as long as he doesn’t come out and say that political assassination in the United States against effective activists/politicians(Wellstone, Lennon, etc.), and those who might become effective, opponents of the controling oligarchy is a cold hard bloody fact and as long as he continues to be so ineffective as a practical matter . . . MIT gets lots of “Defense” money also - - the whole thing of the phoney “Left v. Right” is so pathetic . . . They can all kiss my ***, the truth is there should be no designated “voice” of the people, b/c that voice won’t be “of the people” it will be bought and paid for, the voice of the people shows up in places like here where it is not receiving large shots of cash from the ruling elite thru the front or back door, correct me if I’m wrong and good night . . . .



Corporate Media: The Fake Left Alternative Media is keeping us down
This is for all those people that know Bush is the worst president ever- it's worse than you think, our 'alternative' news has been co-opted.

The point is, Bush has done enough to be tried for treason and war crimes - yet most alternative news sites are just pluggin along, donate to us and we'll get 'em in 2008. We cannot wait until 2008, it's clear that BushCo will just steal the election again. More people are dying everyday, we need to act now. "We are responsible for this monster, this coward, that we have empowered" -- Mosh Now.

Cointelpro was the name for a '70s FBI operation in the US to spy on peace groups- not just spy, but infiltrate and disable.

Agent provacatuers would go to protests, throw things to incite violence which was good for tv propaganda as well as giving the cops a reason to clamp down. They also infiltrated the peace groups to divert them and/or start infighting. This is still going on today, but it is more subtle and even more powerful.

The new cointelpro is much more diverse, run not merely by the FBI, but by private interests as well. Perhaps the Carlyle Group or AIPAC or some other organization would like the US taxpayers to continue funding this endless war on the world, so they hire stooges to do the dirty work. The stooges don't even know they are being chumped, they love the easy money so they don't think about it.

It is now clear that the new cointelpro influence is everywhere in the US media. The influence is not limited to the propaganda of right wing sources like Fox news, CNN and NPR - but it appears agents at least influence, if not control, most of the 'progressive' websites as well, Alternet, the Nation, TomPaine, CounterPunch, CommonDreams, Truthout, PD America, MoveOn, and DLC blogs like Daily Kos, Atrios and so many more.

These sites do have good content, but overall they divert attention away from the most damning stories of the day...


Those in power knew we would protest the crimes of Bush, so they set up these fake left news outlets to keep us in line. The focus seems to be - keep on complaining, but don't do anything about it - woe is us. The fake left withhold the key news when they need to, there is always some other diversion- like Armstrong Williams receiving money to pimp for Bush. Yes that's bad, but it a minor crime compared to the war crimes of depleted uranium, cluster bombs and Fallujah.

The Bush regime is guilty of war crimes. Bombing Civilians is a war crime. 100,000 innocent are dead because Bush and Co lied about WMDs - that is a war crime. Millions of people around the world would like to charge the Bush regime with war crimes before the International Criminal Court- they had to steal the election. This is the news the fake left has buried.

Gonzales and Rumsfeld have already been charged in Germany, would they have an interest in keeping Bush in power?

Bush and Co were faced with a choice:
Steal the election and continue robbing us blind,
or get charged with war crimes at the ICC

Once regular citizens, Bush and his cronies would lose diplomatic immunity,
and it is almost certain that many of them would be charged with war crimes.

This fact should have been on every alternative news website alongside their election fraud coverage. This is not trivial, the motive to stay out of prison is very real. Some Americans dismissed the election theft too quickly, but if they had considered this motive, perhaps they would have looked deeper.

Some of these news outlets may be generally well intentioned, but also infiltrated by an agent or two. Most indymedia sites in the US appear to be this way. They send several agents to join, probably 'radical anarchists' that talk about smashing things and other tactics that will give the cops justification to incite violence. These stooges often come in groups, makes it easier to start arguments within the group, effectively disrupting the activists with infighting.

The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum."

--Noam Chomsky

These co-opted sites do bash bush, but the underlying theme is- accept that bush 'won' and prepare for four more years. Flood the news with insignificant stories, and gloss over the big ones. They all do just enough to pretend they are alternative news... some people are still believing NPR for heaven's sake. All of these fake news outlets draw their line at respective spots along the acceptable spectrum of dialogue.

The bloggers are of course another part of this fake left network. Some are real, but the net is flooded with phonies, so if nothing else it's a huge waste of time sifting thru the garbage. Odds are that many of these people don't even know they're acting as stooges for the elite, but they do know they will continue to make a nice paycheck so long as they don't talk about the 9/11 coverup.

The fake left is not limited to journalists- many Democratic Congressman and Senators are also part of the problem. Some are corrupt, others are just easily duped, tv believing Americans. Some are under the influence of powerful figures such as **** Cheney....

The job of the cointelpro left news is to keep us halfway informed and thinking we know the whole story. Just enough so you think you're reading alternative news, but not enough to outrage you into action, and certainly no ideas for action other than donate. That's another aspect of the fake left, they seem to be asking for money for the sole purpose of draining the resources of the left. Dean's $40 million of anti-war money- he blew it before Iowa and all that anti-war cash was wasted. Kerry's $51 million he had after the election...that's absolutely criminal. Someone should file a lawsuit to give all that money back to the people that donated because they thought Kerry was actually trying to win.

Bush and Co have taken our freedoms and installed a fascist police state, yet most progressives don't know how bad it really is- thanks to the fake left diversion news....

C-span showing a bunch of fools shouting anti-bush chants is easy for people to ridicule and dismiss- why didn't they have Jesse Jackson, Bob Fitrakis, Harvey Wasserman, Bev Harris, Greg Palast and the rest of the investigative journalists that exposed the election fraud give a 6 hour teach-in on live tv about the election fraud. Because ANSWER is just more cointelpro ********.



Golden Shovel Award

Ned Lamont, the new Harvard/Yale face of political buttcheeks challenges Joe Lieberman. If you believe half the trash coming out, a Lamont win will be due to the Daily Kos. Kos the kingmaker, according to some.

Kingmaker? Oh please, make me stop grinning.

I can't keep a straight face when everywhere I read Markos is "left leaning" and "liberal." (Hopefully you are aware of whois Markos and his politics.) Known as Kos, his history has more holes than the overcoat of my husband's great uncle after Capone finished with him.

Kos' bio states he was born in 1971 in Chicago. At the age of 4 he moved to El Salvador which would be 1975, and moved back again to the States in 1980, to Schaumberg, IL. Coincidentally, I had in-laws in Schaumberg during the same time period as Marksos. At that time it was a predominantly white, upper middle class 'burb. Markos story of "growing up" in a war zone doesn't fit - 4 or 5 years does not a childhood make. His claims are stretched to say the least. He grew up in the 'burbs of Shytown.

Kos' states : "Unlike the vast majority of people in this country, I actually grew up in a war zone,” he wrote. “I witnessed communist guerillas execute students accused of being government collaborators. I was eight years old, and I remember stepping over a dead body, warm blood flowing from a fresh wound."

Kos' ability to stretch truth is equal to or exceeds that of the winners in "liar" contests. Local contests award cash, ribbons and the Golden Shovel trophy. Bluffing and bullshitting can be hilarious. So much fun in fact, here in hillbilly heaven, folks practice their game 24/7 for a lifetime.

Contests are held and winners judged on their capacity to take a subject matter (usually outlandish) and make it so believable the story is accepted as true. I believe Kos "warm blood/fresh wound" story as much as I believe local Golden Shovel champions. (His warm wound story reminds me every VN vet I've ever met was spit upon.)

From 1975-80 (Kos years in Salvador) the Salvadoran civil war was not raging, not yet fueled by the election of Ronald Reagan and massive US military aid to the Salvadoran government. Only after the murder of Archbishop Romero and the murder of 4 American nuns by the El Salvador government did the leftist guerrillas unite to form FMLN and begin a counteroffensive in 1981. Little Kos was long gone back to the Chicago 'burbs.

In Markos view the Salvadoran guerrillas were bad commies and the Salvadoran government good. Doesn't take a genius to figure out Kos is no liberal or leftist or progressive. He backed the Salvadoran oligarchy the American "left" fought against. Today he claims Romero as one of his heroes, the way 5th graders used to claim JFK their hero. Does he know Romero was murdered for being simpatico to the country's commie poor being murdered by the government? Markos has slicked up his rhetoric since 2002 when he began the DailyKos site. Like a politician, on book tours, lectures, and interviews, he wised-up to the importance of a bullshitter's nuance.

Bull, such as this quote from Kos on why he "won't write about Israel/Lebanon/Palestine fighting" : "I grew up in a war zone. And there was one clear lesson I learned -- there will never be peace unless both sides get tired of the fighting and start seeking an alternative. It's clear that in the Middle East, no one is sick of the fighting. They have centuries of grudges to resolve, and will continue fighting until they can get over them."

Grudges. I know racist Bubba and Tyrone believe the grudge rhetoric as I've heard them often regurgitate "theys bin killin' one 'nother for thousins' o years" - but for Markos, an educated man, to spout such ignorance, and be taken seriously, is crazy. Is that the loony left or what? For Kos and ilk the current wars have less to do with land grabbing geopolitics, US fueled jihadists, Zionism, etc. and just more a centuries-long grudge match.

Kos simplifies his world view for his followers but he's a caricature to the few genuine American "leftists." Fortunate for him, his audience is younger and of the mindset they can change the world simply by voting in the right candidate every 2 to 4 years. Oh to be so young or dumb again. If this is progressive – I want none of it.

Whether groomed intentionally by the ruling class for the role Kos now plays in American politics, or whether he just kind of stepped into it by chance and is now manipulated by the PTB – it's hard to say. But the end results are the same. Another elite controlled mouthpiece willing to force upon the rest of us the humble mantra that he is "reigniting the progressive movement." And doing it with a great big shovel to anyone who brings a spoon.

Posted by Kate-A
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Have I found a real website?

Unread postby may41970 » Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:37 am

His name is John Young, and his site is called "Cryptome." He posted the following two letters, along with several others on his home page today:

August 28, 2007
ATTN: "Cryptome's" founder and operator

The assertion that "nothing should be secret" is absolutely absurd. Dead wrong sir. That's not opinion. Your activities do constitute treason, and the only astonishing thing is the fact that the present US government can't do anything about it. For now. The funny thing is half of your information is wrong. And in the cases where it is revelationary - the vast majority is quickly (believe it or not) able to be moved. And at little expense since routine funding exists for massive strategic movement of the types of installations and assets you think you are "revealing". So actually you are working for the US government and especially military without realizing it - acting as a convenient decoy service. The ability of the military infrastructure to move and reconstitute sites is so advanced and massive - it bears no comparison to any civil or private system of construction methods and techniques. And of course is entirely classified. So that's all you'll ever know about it. (Being an attempted traitor.) There's a rogue group of ex-US Marines and USN SEALs who can take care of problems like you - or rather as you would appear to be. But you're not worth it. And somewhat incidentally useful against our less sophisticated enemies. So I hope you had fun with your hobby. I just tell you all that because it's true and I hate traitors (even inept ones) and I hate the stupid. I'm a real rogue and no one in the brass will like I told you that stuff - since it will be widely intercepted by routine foreign intelligence as you are routinely (and lightly by the way) monitored. But I'm not worried about it since the 4 or 5 really dangerous enemies already know what I told you.

29 August 2007
Good to hear that you are still there despite your conflicts with America's various disinformation agents and their organizations. Luckily, you don't work for some kind of private employer, like Liam Clarke. Too bad, though, that it has reduced you to some kind of zombie. Can you supply an address to which I can send flowers, and condolences? Perhaps, your employers will now despatch you with some kind of mercy killing - that's what they did with Oswald.


cryptome.org

I think I like John Young, and I know I like his website. These two items also impressed me.

cryptome.org/radar-smear.htm

cryptome.org/abc-hello/abc-hello.htm


=======================


Not sure if this post belongs in the "chemtrails are not kooky" section, but discovering something like Cryptome feels like such a breath of fresh air, at least to me.

Anyone know anything about this site?
may41970
 

Unread postby socrates » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:52 pm

Hey, it looks good, seen it before. Maybe Don knows. I e-mailed the dude, gave him the link to the PI thread. This whole forum has now been copied and saved.

That letter above sounds like it came from the Special Forces Underground. If real, maybe the person shouldn't be revealing their trade secrets. Tho', it's fairly obvious what they are up to with the search engines, so it's not like the guy coughed up much more than some fascist rhetoric.
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gadfly
 
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Unread postby Don Smith » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:11 am

Seems kosher to me.(The site.)
The whack job "intel" nut is B.S.
Psychological profile,(quick and dirty), self absorbed neurotic , narcissistic compulsive, needs validation by identifying with the "real" powerful people of the fascist state.
Lacks education, compensates by asserting association with the models of authority he lacked in childhood.
Unable to feel love or empathy, substitutes power and egotistical values as a substitute for feelings. Of course, not being the real solutions to his needs, there can never be a real fulfillment, so he chases the image in an endless circle of frustration and fear.
Sounds like our POTUS, doesn't it?
Don Smith
 

Paranoia

Unread postby may41970 » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:52 am

Thinking more about this, couldn't Cryptome also be the PERFECT Homeland Security asset? Personally, I don't think so. Like you, Don, I feel the site is aboveboard. But what if that's the goal? To convince federal insiders with dirt that they have a "friend?"

If Cryptome truly is releasing national security secrets, why hasn't it been removed from the net? Why hasn't Young been arrested? Why is his site still easily accessible, even from here in Taiwan? Why is John Young recently getting publicity from the press?

Don't mean to make everything so complicated, but let's say that wanna-be whistleblowers with nowhere to go eventually come across Cryptome, so they give John Young their ****. And John Young turns over everything he gets. Man, what a great way to find the "traitors."

I'm cynical, okay. (Don, if you've got a psychological profile on me, please keep it to yourself; I couldn't bear to hear it!)

Taking the devil's advocate side, let's say that someone makes the accusation, "John Young released the names of American secret agents. How does that make him any different from when the White House outed Valerie Plame?"
may41970
 

Unread postby Don Smith » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:15 pm

I have posted elsewhere on this site about the search engines that Big Brother has to find the key words and phrases which will bring attention to a posting. Any posting, anywhere in the world.
So long as the nuts and bolts of any particular operation can be obscured, it doesn't matter what the web surfers find. Confusion and disinfo are the stock and trade of the astroturf set.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but they rely upon the old school yard bully ethic, "what are you going to do about it?"
Given that the "government" is pretty much a shadow play, and that damn near anything can be passed through Congress, so long as it has the impress of "security" upon it, the bully ethic works just fine, thank you.
Chemtrails are one of many evil programs that exist outside of the control of any monitoring. There is lip service given to "congressional oversight", but by now, we know how weak that system is, and always was.
I am now doing research on pulmonary disorders that can be linked to atmospheric contaminants, finding a base line is a task, hell, the whole thing has gotten so complex that it might have been easier to go back to school for a Doctorate.
The complexities of searching out trustworthy information are known to those on this site, it is easy to be diverted, chasing false information which may not be deliberate, only unsubstantiated.
I am babbling, sorry, more later.
Don Smith
 


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