Steven Hertzberg Needs to be Investigated for Fraud

manufactured grassroots, disinfo, and insidious marketing
Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 08 Sep 2007, 18:27 #1

{with merged threads, the adjusted view count is +1628}

{on edit- I fixed links and made the story more clear.}

May41970 has wondered before why fake "chemmies" have been giving us free advertising. The simple answer has been that they have been trying to circumscibe us into the carnival atmosphere. The #1 reason, imho, is that those fockers are simply usernames, not real people we can investigate more than from the bs that they post. The last few weeks has been an epiphany for me. Yes, I am just a nobody from Massachusetts, but I am a clever one in my own ways, and I am hopeful that the members and good lurkers will pay close attention to this specific thread. Hopefully, some of you can join in and help clarify.

Why do things never seem to get better? We know that the commercial television is rubbish. Many of us have had great hopes for the internet to be a vehicle for positive, social movement. One by one we have seen our internet watering holes for the contaminated disinfo that they are. Now, wouldn't it be nice if we could go beyond the fake web personas and really nail some truth? That has actually just happened.

When people discuss how GW Bush and the Rethuglicans stole the 2004 election, it all leads back to the state of Ohio. But I am getting ahead of the story. I will try to present this so anyone can check this out and see how crazy the astroturfing on the internet is and how this specific, powerful, rightwing operative involved with election fraud whitewashing has outed himself as being an internet leech.

There was this username "Navari" posting at a crazy place called That place, like the DemocraticUnderground, give the illusion that it is a haven for liberals and progressives. Steven Hertzberg is the Director for a slimy organisation called Election Science Institute. ESI purports to be a non-profit, but Hertzberg has said before that it has received generous backing from hefty donors. He wrote at DU that he was trying to get permission from the donors to release their names. He also said that eventually such names would be revealed through the taxes and whatnot. I believe that there needs to be a full congressional investigation into Steven Hertzberg and ESI.

So how do we know that "Navari" at BreakForNews is Steven Hertzberg? The numbnut let this information out himself. Sure, it took some amateur web sleuthing to put two and two together, but basically he outed himself with his excessive astroturfing of prez candidate Ron Paul. He touted his website at A curious poster named ObeyLittle went to the whois, and Steven Hertzberg of ESI came up as the registrant.

Hertzberg, to put it bluntly, is a fool who got his fingers caught in the astroturfing cookie jar. He has been posting as a "stevenstevensteven" at DU. There he acknowledged his true identity. I've been going through caches of BFN looking for Navari's avatar or signature. It was a U.S. flag with a quip about we the sheeple. "Fintan Dunne" of BFN has deactivated Navari's account. Thus, one has to work much harder to locate those specific, astroturfing posts. I believe that this is a major story with national implications. Yes, we are nobodies, but we are good, honest people. The one thing that binds us is our thirst for the truth.

By the way, this person is very busy right now trying to delete and scrub his internet past. But it is so vast, so convoluted, that he won't be able to do that in time to put the genie back into the bottle. There seems to be plenty enough already found and saved to expose this cointelpro-like fraud who appears to be a front for election fraud.

Remember that avatar/signature just mentioned about the flag and the sheeple? I tried to find it in BFN caches, but since he is now a "guest," I haven't had luck finding it. But look at this, before it's deleted by the dumbass fake. At this website is a photo of a young dude wearing a t-shirt with that flag with the words-
Nation of Sheep owned by
I can't see who "we" are owned by, it is cut off, but the image on this shirt is the same avatar Hertzberg was using for "Navari" at BFN.

{on edit- Navari/Hertzberg removed the photo and replaced it with a sports car. He also deleted personal information which included his hometown of San Francisco, California. This was a pure scrub job. I hope stevenstevensteven enjoys his new sports car. Image Round one to Hertzberg.}

We now know why Steven Hertzberg has bailed out of BFN and gone to the scrub brush. Navari/Hertzberg has turned out to be either an astroturfer for Ron Paul or is someone working for forces trying to tie the Ron Paul movement with tinfoil. Keep in mind that astroturfing refers to the creation of fake grassroots movements, either for commercial or political gain. While someone could have possibly tied him into this without knowing about BFN, it would have been much more difficult to uncover this insidious connection if there wasn't the recent blow-up at the nutjob website BreakForNews.

I will now go through my bookmarks and try to fill in the missing pieces. I am quite sure Mr. Hertzberg is going to accelerate the scrub job. But to me, anything he tries to scrub now, it will be too little, too late.

Be Bold
My area of focus in the nonprofit world is or will be: Elections
My career in the nonprofit world: is up to 5 years long
City: San Francisco
State: California
It looks like he has scrubbed some photos already.
stevenstevensteven/Hertzberg photos

All about stevenstevensteven

{VoteWatch would become ESI}

Seeking exoops dev team

Buyer profile


{HMG stands for Heart Mountain Group.}

Navari makes an audio with "Fintan Dunne"

There was also another audio he did with Fintan on something called "full spectrum liberty."
Strange to see the Director of ESI so involved with a crazy website like BFN.

posted by "Lurker"
As a long-time lurker though, I must admit that I thought Ormond was one of the main financial backers of Break for News. For the sake of this website and similar others, I believe information like this has to be made public. I think Forums/Websites like this will self-destruct if such information is not made public. It requires money to run a website like this. It takes time. It takes resources. Someone is funding Break for News.
We will see later that "Ormond" and "Navari" are buddies.

Screen shot's are the only protection against the scrub brush.
Navari at Digg


Mylonglife is the name of one of Fintan Dunne's websites.


There are then a few links to his website.






Who is this guy, this Navari/Steven Hertzberg, and how did he get so involved with investigating election fraud in Ohio? Come on people. This is bizarre stuff.

Scrub Job alert. What used to be on his youtube page was a video for Ron Paul and another astroturfing that global warming is a hoax. One of the things that first got me thinking that BFN was a fake website was the disproportionate # of posters astroturfing that global warming is a hoax. For what had been portrayed as being a lefty/progressive place, this just never added up. Well, now maybe it does, if BFN is actually a right woos left bullshit palace. Steven Hertzberg doesn't want people to know that he has been astroturfing against global warming as man-made and for Ron Paul. But it's too late for scrubbing. The truth is the truth.

youtube page for stevenstevensteven

steven times 3 looks for computer help
should be simple?: Security Images 4.1.2 Settings
I've got two instances of Security Images on my JA Submit page (see attached image). What have I done wrong? Below are my relevant configuration changes/setting....

Looking for more help with the comps


Hertzberg All Over the Place for Ron Paul

This is some crazy shit going on. Shouldn't there be a full investigation into Steven Hertzberg, ESI, and the stolen 2004 election?
Last edited by socrates on 28 Oct 2007, 01:13, edited 6 times in total.

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 08 Sep 2007, 20:49 #2

It appears that a rightwing operative was hired by rightwing officials to cover up the 2004 election fraud in Ohio.

Here is a post I left at John Dean's blog last night.
The Trial of Kelvin Mace
socrates said...

Hi John, hope all is well. I have a real name for you of a paid Republican operative astroturfing the internet as a "progressive." He is tied in with the election fraud. His name is Steven Hertzberg of the Election Science Institute. I cannot believe the numbers of crumbs he has left on the internet concerning his true profession. While people like you and me have our one blog or we go to a few websites, this guy is everywhere. He is posting and developing websites everywhere. And his big thing is working for Ron Paul. This effort is so extensive, there has to be money behind it. We have caught ourselves a real life astroturfer. They leave the crumbs, and we find them.

If you engine search stevenstevensteven you will see the vast amount of crap this guy has posted. Now why the f is this dude posting as a progressive at the Democratic Underground, getting kudos from Kelvin David Allen Mace. Why has he been posting extensively at a bs tinfoil site like breakfornews. This is ugly, sir. But I realize you are one of the best troll busters that there is. Now why is this guy flooding the internet with Ron Paul this, Ron Paul that. Doesn't he have enough on his table as some election consultant.

But the ties to republican operatives can be shown. My bookmarks are now to the yin yang. This is cointelpro, dude, the modern day equivalent.

I really want to expose this guy bad. It's one thing to expose petty internet forum avatars, but this is a real person. And lately, as I've gotten beyond the bs that is forum psy-ops, I AM finding real names.

Bob Parsons.
Bob McCaw.
Roy Oswald.
Tinoire? What is her real name? She can't be for real.

Fintan Dunne? bet that isn't his name. I don't even think he is Irish. I listened to an audio of him finally. I lived in Ireland. He sounds like an American actor putting on a brogue. Dunne has been working with Hertzberg. There is also someone named Dan Butler, who went by the name Ormond at Dunnes psy-op palace. He is now posting at Hertzberg's ronpaulonline forum. Someone messed up, or the program still needs to be worked on, but a poster who describes himself as a Goldwater republican had his posts edited by "Ormond." Fintan Dunne is a right woo left astroturfer. It's a big friggin network of people without souls.

And Fintan Dunne has deactivated Hertzberg's username "Navari," so now no one can search those exact posts. Just saying, you do this part time. I've devoted a lot of time the last few years due to a family illness. Why is Mr. E.S.I. all over the internet. He reeks of being a paid troll, a netvocater, a fascist plant.

It also turns out Dunne is using a host out of Texas called soft layer technologies putting the god damn servers into his living room, which may or may not be in Ireland.

I saved some screens, but I believe this guy Hertzberg is scrambling to cover his tracks.

It's right woos left. It's tinfoil by association. It's let's blame Bev Harris when it's punks like Steven Hertzberg and David Allen who have been covering up the election fraud.

My bookmarks are to the yin-yang. Am hopeful you might be able to help me sort this one out a bit, seeing that it is tied in with two of your causes, election fraud and THE TRUTH.

We exposed Citizenspook. And that isn't even a real name.

A real name is Steven Hertzberg, aka stevenstevensteven, aka an internet right woos left troll.

Thanks for your time and consideration, "socrates"
September 7, 2007 10:01 PM

Hopefully, Fintan Dunne doesn't mess with the big thread Obeylittle came up with after "wag the world" got deleted.

My response to events leading to my BFN supension

Just gonna throw some stuff up I found, let it do the talking.

Once Navari was exposed as Steven hertzberg, he went to the scrubber. was one of the first victims. Without a doubt, "Navari" is Steven Hertzberg.






Steven Hertzberg mailinglist at


I just found this next one on Fintan.

Who'd a thunk Fintan Dunne would be tied to the hip with someone whitewashing election fraud?

Check this out. Fintan can decode alien languages! I've got this new theory. These fockers are built to implode. I would not be surprised to eventually find out that Hertzberg is buddies with some very sick fascists who play mind games on the internet. I'll never understand how Hertzberg could be so stupid to reveal his true identity. he was friggin stevenstevensteven at democratic underground. He was himself @

If he wasn't such a mean creep, I might even feel a bit sorry for him this is so pitiful. But then again, stolen elections are the worst. With all that money spent on the war industry, it'd be easy to fund paper ballots. Bev Harris seems to have made plenty of dough fundraising. Not sure what she made selling clinton cigars. But maybe she could step up to the plate and put that money into fixing the elections, if she is for real. Maybe Olbermann would be the guy to do this story? I have given up for now on Bev Harris. Fitrakis better be for real. I can't take too many more of these fakes.

Arecibo 1974
The Transmission In Detail
Chilbolton Message Decoded!
~ Part ONE of Two ~
By Fintan Dunne


"Hello Earth. We are replying to your message describing yourselves -which we have understood. We too are a hydrocarbon lifeform with a similar mathematics and logic. We are sending an image of our face which shows us humanoid like you."

However we have a slightly different DNA structure and we are smaller than you, with very large heads. We inhabit three of the planets in our solar system and one moon. We did not use a radio telescope to send you this message but a telepathic beam technology. We used a hyperspace capability to intercept your spacetime message and are using hyperspace also to reply."

An extraterrestial humanoid intelligence (ET) seems to have responded to our 1974 deep space transmission of a coded message describing earth and mankind. And their reply has now been decoded.

On November 16, 1974 a digitally-encoded schematic was beamed from the Arecibo radio telescope on Puerto Rico. The power of the beamed message was equivalent to a 20 trillion watt omnidirectional broadcast, and would have been detectable almost anywhere in the galaxy. But it was aimed the third of a million star cluster M13, roughly 20,000 light-years from us, near the edge of the Milky Way galaxy. Even if anyone had been listening, the speed of radio waves are limited, so we should not have had a reply for 40,000 years.

But, on 17th August, 2001 two large and incredible images were imprinted on crops beside ANOTHER radio telescope - Chilbolton, near Wherwell in Hampshire, UK. In the style of the now infamous "crop circles", they are drawn by a mysterious flattening of the crop. One image depicts a replica of the schematic contained in that 1974 transmission. The other crop image is that of a humanoid face. Either this is an incredible hoax or an incredible first contact reply.

The reply schematic is subtly different to the original that we transmitted in 1974. Fintan Dunne, co-editor of, has decoded the reply by comparing it with the logic underlying the construction of our original schematic. has decoded the message. A full explanation of the analysis leading to this decoding follows:

The 1974 message was encoded into the radio waves by using two frequencies and shifting between them. The 1679 character message is in computer binary code (0 and 1). The number 1679 is the product of 23 and 73. Arrange the bit-code in 73 rows of 23 and this reveals the schematic picture encoded in the message....

Here is proof that Hertzberg has known about Fintan Dunne since at least March, 2003.


Stevenstevensteven running around asking questions concerning his websites:

Subject: Netgear Security Router Hacked???
Been experiencing slow connectivity on Comcast HSI Cable Internet for past 2-month. In last week I am unable to secure an appropriate internal IP address from router....

Subject: RDBSS.sys Blue Screen of Death
Getting the following blue screen error messages: "driver system unloaded without cancelling pending operations. Stop: X000000D4 (0XBAC97F38, DX00000002,
0X00000001, 0X804DBC9A) rdbss.sys. Beginning physical dump of memory, etc." At that time I loose Internet connectivity and have to reboot in order to regain use of network drivers. Sometimes upon rebood I also see BSoD.

In researching elsewhere, all indications are that this is malware, as I understand that malware sometimes resides in RDBSS file....

On to the good stuff!

stevenstevensteven's Journal at DemocraticUnderground

{on edit- the current page seems unavailable. The cache is available for now.
This is a big piece of the astroturfing puzzle. Time for another screen shot. 8) }

{on edit: For some reason mynetimages removed the screenshot. Here it is again.
I will copy and paste the text just in case this happens again.

Good for Ohio
Posted by stevenstevensteven in Election Reform
Wed Feb 14th 2007, 07:23 PM

Damschroder is clearly the best candidate for the job. He's one of the smartest and most capable election official in the nation. He'll do more for election transparency and accountability than anyone else in Ohio. Election reformers who are able to remain objective and non-partisan should be supportive of this positive development.

Discuss (0 comments)
He also left the same post here on a different thread.

Who is Damschroder?
Cleveland Paper Cites Voter Problems
The Associated Press

Saturday 11 December 2004

A polling place that served two adjoining precincts counted hundreds of votes for fringe presidential candidates Nov. 2, apparently because poll workers didn't instruct voters to use only the machines for their precinct, a newspaper reported Friday.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer's review of voting patterns in Cuyahoga County showed that many of the approximately 1,000 voters in the two precincts cast ballots just steps away at machines meant for the other precinct.

"There was no distinction between precincts," said Katie Daley, an observer for the Democratic Party who spent Election Day at the voting place, Benedictine High School. "Voters were being told to go to any machine that was open."

The newspaper reported the problems arose because candidate names were in different positions on the ballot in different precincts. A person's punch-card ballot would be misread if he voted in the wrong precinct and the card was then read on his or her home precinct's machine.

Democrat John Kerry lost Ohio to President Bush by about 119,000 votes out of 5.6 million cast. Voting procedures have been under scrutiny because the closely fought state put President Bush over the top in November.

At the two precincts located at Benedictine, both heavily Democratic, Libertarian Michael Badnarik received 164 votes, almost half as many as Kerry, who got 334. In the adjacent precinct, Constitution Party candidate Michael Peroutka received 215 votes to Kerry's 299.

Because most of the problems occurred in heavily Democratic precincts, the errors seem to have cost votes for Kerry, the newspaper reported.

Michael Vu, Cuyahoga County's election director, said the findings would be investigated, and said they showed the need for more poll worker training.....

39 Voting Machines Unused Despite Long Lines
By Mark Niquette
The Columbus Dispatch

Saturday 11 December 2004

17 never activated at inner-city precincts; officials not sure why.

In a development that came to light just this week, several extra Franklin County voting machines earmarked for Columbus’ inner-city polling places on Election Day never made it inside.

Officials can’t say exactly why, but they suggest the polls may have been closed or poll workers told those delivering the machines that they could get along with the ones they had.

The machines were among a group of 99 originally kept in reserve for emergencies. County Elections Director Matthew Damschroder said that the day before the election, he ordered that all 99 be sent to precincts where long lines were expected.

But 22 were left in the warehouse, and 17 of the 29 machines that officials tried to place on Election Day in inner-city precincts never were activated.

Damschroder said he learned the extent of the problem and other discrepancies this week - meaning officials have been giving the public wrong numbers on voting machines for the past 5½ weeks....

The Free Press
Bob Fitrakis

Presidential Election at Risk: Ohio's electoral system riddled with flaws
September 20, 2004
Whether Kerry or Bush wins in Ohio may well depend on how many voters are disenfranchised in the state's three largest counties: Cuyahoga, Franklin and Hamilton. Respectively these three counties contain the Democratically rich big three-C cities Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati. The voter rolls are under unprecedented scrutiny and irregularities abound.

In Hamilton County, home of the Republican Taft family dynasty, the Board of Elections moved some 105,000 voters from active to inactive status within the last four years. By contrast, Franklin County has not moved any voters to inactive status, and doesn't intend to until 2006 because a computer transfer glitch wiped out federal election voting histories. Matthew Damschroder, Director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, told the Free Press that under law a county 'may' cancel a person's voter registration if that person hasn't voted in the last two federal elections. But, the counties are not required to do so....

In Ohio's dead even presidential election, something as small as computer glitches at the major metropolitan area's Board of Elections could easily swing the vote. To solve bureaucratic error and computer mistakes, Ohio uses the provisional ballot. Provisional ballots allow voters who are improperly barred from voting due to a registration error, to cast their ballot on Election Day while the Board of Elections straightens out the problem.

On September 14, Project Vote announced that 150,555 new low-income and minority voters were registered in Ohio. Many of these likely Democratic voters are in the Cleveland area and an ongoing battle has developed between Democratic Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones and the politically ambitious Blackwell, both African American. The same week Ohio newspapers headlined the fact that the Ohio economy was the worst in the nation, having lost nearly 12,000 jobs in August alone.

Following Project Vote's announcement, Blackwell issued statewide directives severely restricting the use of provisional ballots and instructing precinct voting judges to give state or federal provisional ballots only to persons who appear to have a voting residence in that particular precinct. This narrow use of the provisional ballot with over 150,000 new minority and low-income voters, may well swing Ohio's election results for Bush.

Rep. Tubbs Jones immediately attacked Blackwell's orders as an attempt 'to seek to disenfranchise the people of the state of Ohio.'

The Congresswoman points out that with the re-drawing of the Congressional districts following the 2000 census and the Republican Party's elimination over the past few years of many inner city precincts, many voters will be showing up at the wrong precinct.

She said that 'provisional ballot is a mechanism that was put in place to take individual discretion out of the voting process. Poll workers should not be put in the position to determine who votes and who does not vote.' Rep. Tubbs Jones argues that Blackwell's directives are contrary to the spirit in which the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) was enacted and contrary to the position that he previously took in the Ohio primary.

In the 2000 Florida election, investigative reporter Gregory Palast reported that an estimated 600,000 voters who registered by the deadline were not properly processed. An additional 58,000 non-felons were barred from voting incorrectly because they had a same or similar name as a felon or the same date of birth as a felon. Gore supporters point out that these registration errors disproportionately occur in heavily Democratic urban areas.....

With Bush and Kerry in a virtual dead heat in Ohio, and no Republican candidate having won the presidency without winning Ohio's electoral votes, the disenfranchisement of more than 177,500 new voters, ex-felons, canceled inactive voters and other victims of bureaucratic bungling and election irregularities may well decide who governs our nation, and the fate of the Earth.

Why was Damschroder being promoted so heavily Mr. Steven Hertzberg, also now known as Navari, stevenstevensteven, and as a close associate of "Fintan Dunne?"

Matt Damschroder
Matt Damschroder
Type Individual
Position Election chair 2004
Political Party Republican

Matt Damschroder's Friends:

Karl Rove

Damschroder, who was supposed to count Ohio votes, met with Karl Rove on election day 2004.


George W. Bush

On election day 2004, the head of an Ohio election board met with George Bush and Karl Rove.


Ken Blackwell

The two Republicans in charge of counting Ohio votes met with George Bush and Karl Rove on election day 2004.


Republican National Committee

Damschroder was Franklin County, Ohio Republican Party chair.


Diebold election systems

Damschroder said he wouldn't take Diebold's $10,000 bribe to use Diebold voting machines, but the county GOP he'd chaired would be happy to have it. He took the check and mailed it himself.

{on edit: They forgot one more friend of Damschroder.
Mr. Steven Hertzberg of the Election Science Institute-
a big fan of Ron Paul and Leo Laporte}


Cuyahoga Board of Elections Attacks ESI after its Primary Election Audit:
link to video

Back to the Steven Hertzberg of ESI astroturfing for Ron Paul.
Jaikus on channel #ronpaul


Administered by stevenstevensteven.

Steven times 3 Looking for Hired Help

stevenstevensteven's Yahoo Profile

Here's yet another website with Hertzberg astroturfing for Ron Paul: stevenstevensteven - Ron Paul Feb 26, 2007


Cleveland Hires Election Science Institute
autorank: Check this out:

"The election system in its entirety exhibits shortcomings with extremely serious consequences, especially in the event of a close election," wrote Steven Hertzberg, director of the study by the San Francisco-based Election Science Institute.

I'd suggest using this thread to explore this issue. It's an outrage. Who in Cleveland hired ESI?
On what basis? Was there a bid?

GD Thread:
Ohio voting problems deemed severe

Isn't that a little like a drug company hiring a big pharma lobbying firm to tell them about price gouging?

Kelvin Mace: 7. Interesting to note

that Steven Hertzberg si one of Bev's early victims, and has been attacked in this forum by Bev supporters for his failure to embrace various Bev "truths". The usual tactics were used, insinuations that he was secretly in the pay of Diebold, et al.

And now we are seeing aspersions cast again.

Can you tell me when ESI was ever a paid lobbyist of any voting machine vendor?

I take it then that if you disagree with ESI's report, you find the voting machines in Ohio to be completely reliable?

mod mom: 8. Hertzberg has been criticized by Ohio ER groups NOT because of BBV but for his failure to respond to inquiries on a report based on precinct level data collected by many within the ER community. He promised a report and after many attempts to contact him regarding this, he never replied. He re-surfaced in the spring of 2005 after it was announced by Matt Damshroeder (R Director of the Franklin Co BOE) that ESI/Votewatch would be working with them. His report for Damshroeder left many to question his intent. He was invited to make his case at the spring 2005 CASE-Ohio ER Teach-In, but declined to participate.

More recently, after the May 2006, while working for Cuyahoga Co his comments on the disastrous election (I will have to search for the link) stated voters were satisfied with the electronic voting machines. (This after the disastrous election which lead one 60+ old man to attact the machines.)


mod mom
9. Link to May Cuyahoga Co story:
Voting machines a winner in poll
But problems being probed
Saturday, May 13, 2006
Grant Segall
Plain Dealer Reporter

An exit poll shows this rare bit of good news from Black Tuesday - Cuyahoga County's sputtering May 2 primary.

"The voters were overwhelmingly satisfied with the system," Steven Hertzberg, project director of Election Science Institute, said Friday.


Under a $275,000 county contract, Election Science will continue to study the May 2 vote, partly by auditing the tallies on three kinds of media: paper, memory cards and the machines' internal records.

County commissioners are expected Thursday to give Election Science $66,000 more to survey poll workers about their struggles with the machines.
Anyone interested in reading stevenstevensteven at Democratic Underground, keep in mind that Steven Hertzberg has admitted that he is that poster.

{on edit- I just noticed that David Allen with the alias of Kelvin Mace stuck up for Hertzberg, while attacking Bev Harris- a what does it all mean, Basil, kind of quote.}

Hertzberg Introduces Himself to DU


post #3 at this link- This is probably why Hertzberg scrubbed his website after being exposed as being "Navari" at BFN.
mod mom: I found what the web site said, but was looking for personal knowledge. A website is the information that the organization wishes people to know. If any election reformer, especially left coaster has info, please post.

I found this on Steve Hertzberg-it was listed on his bio from his website for Election Science Institute:

"Mr. Hertzberg spent the first several years of his career as a civilian within the US Department of Defense. While serving as a Project Manager and Test Director for highly visible military development programs, Mr. Hertzberg received the U.S. Army’s Civilian Special Act Award."

Also for what it's worth, it appears from his website that the funding comes from 2 groups:

1. Aguirre International-Dr Edward Aguirre was appointed Us Commissioner of Education by Gerald Ford in 1976. After leaving this position he founded Aguirre International.

2. CommonCause Education Fund.

Does this raise any questions?


From the E.S.I. website. Maybe these folks need to be investigated also.
Votewatch Team
Votewatch is fortunate to have so many dedicated Team Members, Expert Advisors, and Partner Organizations working together to make our mission a reality.

Project Director
Steven Hertzberg bio

Survey Research
Dr. Susan Gabbard
Patricia Hernandez
Carmen Sum
Dr. Nicole Vicinanza

Yobie Benjamin - Chair, Technology Advisory Board
Chris Crownhart
Pankaj Mittal
Vikas Sachdeva

Susan Brissette
Wendy Hernandez

Advancement and Fundraising
Charlotte Dobbs
Marianne Gaddy
William Hertzberg
Vanessa Spilios
Art Wolf

Marketing and Communications
Laura Mytels

Special Consultants
Wally McGuire
Darius Anderson

E.S.I. Covered Up Florida Also?
KEY QUESTIONS asked durign survey

How did Florida voters feel about the new voting technology?
How did voting in this election feel in comparison to the 2000 presidential election?
How did Florida voters rate their polling place?
How did Florida voters rate their poll workers?
How did Florida voters rate the efforts of their supervisor of election?
Did Florida voters think the election reforms will reduce voter fraud?
How did disabled voters or families of disabled voter rate the voting accommodations?
Why didn’t some Floridians vote?

Summary of Results

Over 90% of surveyed voters felt that poll workers did an excellent or good job and over 85% rated the ease of use of the voting technology as excellent or good.
A comment left:


Thanks to all good people who are following this thread. It may be the most important one I've made afterall. Lou Aubuchont? He's a low level shill like a Fintan Dunne with an in-built mechanism to debunk himself. I honestly do not believe that Hertzberg was looking for all this exposure emerging that he's been posting prolifically at some stupid, tinfoil psy-op like BreakForNews. Perhaps we are getting very close to exposing one facet of the machine behind the 2004 election fraud, the one that has tried to cover up the exit poll discrepancies.
Last edited by socrates on 04 Nov 2007, 23:23, edited 3 times in total.

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 08 Sep 2007, 21:58 #3

Registrar Smith Rips Off Taxpayers, $890,000.00

David Milum: One county commissioner did his best to convince this writer that Gary Smith was earning his keep by abusing his county credit card while charging his booze, charging up to $400.00 for his food at the Outback Restaurant, and the like. Also discovered was that Smith traveled to Beverly Hills, California on your money. The list goes on and on ladies and gentlemen. This one particular commissioner told me that Smith was running his office much more efficiently than other counties of our size. I say; that is pure unadulterated horse $(-)it!

A local Citizen reported to the Forsyth County Commissioners Thursday night that Voter Registrar Gary Smith has ripped off the Forsyth County Taxpayers to the tune of $890,000.00. In an unverified report Cherokee County’s submitted budget for their Voter Registrar’s Office is $500,000.00. Reportedly Cherokee County has over thirty thousand more voters than does Forsyth County. Hall County, also with more voters than Forsyth, has a Voter Registrar’s submitted budget of $535,000.00 with a contingency cushion for a possible special election of an additional $100,000.00.

A whopper of a surprise for the Forsyth County Taxpayers says that Gary Smith’s submitted budget is a whopping $1,390,000.00!!!!! That is a monstrous amount that is $890,000.00 more than Cherokee County with 30,000 more voters! The total for Hall County, even with a special election cost addition does not surpass a grand total of $635,000.00. Smith’s incredible budget is more than Hall County and Cherokee County combined!

Also revealed was that Smith paid for, with your tax dollars, his membership in a lobby named NACo that uses your money to [defeat] the necessity of a paper trail ballot. Yes my friends, you heard right. Smith used your hard-earned dough to pay for his opposition of a paper trail ballot. Many say that this Smith character can not be trusted. Now I can see why! Not only do we have a drunkard on our hands and in our pockets we also have an incompetent thief too!
County officials appreciate your attention to this urgent matter. If
you have any questions, please ask your staff to contact Alysoun
McLaughlin, Associate Legislative Director, at 202-942-4254 or
[email protected]" onclick=";return false" onclick=";return false

RoxanneJekot: Check out these photos of Gary Smith in Cleveland, OH being paid $200.00/hr while also on our dime:



He was paid for the entire month of June, 2006 but was in Cuyahoga County, Ohio June 20-23, 2006 working for Election Science Institute.

on edit:

Awww, looks like they are trying to cover Gary's butt. Only one problem.......I have the pics saved locally!

Here's one:
Notice how the two pics that don't show up were under "stevenstevensteven?" The 3rd picture works. Guess the guy in the center is Gary Smith.
David Milum: Check this out! I mean; the voters have not expressed any sentiment in changing.... yea right sotboy. And Gary where's my $890,000.00 you thief?

Code: Select all

David Milum: Here's what we need to do. Open up these links and copy every name and contact info you can. We will write to all these people and see if Smith got drunk and embarrassed us while he was out of town. I'll start this weekend....

{on edit- due to some excessive scrubbing, I have removed a few links. Whatever. It's too late. The cat's out of the bag. He sure does seem to be very tied into the dispersion of tinfoil. That is the part of this which is so intrigung.Is he part of the network which has been flooding the internet with the excessive kookiness? Steven Hertzberg of the Election Science Institute, wtf?}

More Proof that this is a Scrubber

Scrubbing only works if everything gets scrubbed. No crumbs can be left behind. Too many internet crumbs here Mr. Steven "Navari" Hertzberg.

{broken link-original link doesn't work either}
Hertzberg Doesn't Like Citizen Journalists- Too Effen Bad, Mr. Astroturf

{on edit: The scrubbed quote has been located through cache. A lot has been uncovered on this dude. He really blew it big time, giving it away that he was "Navari" at BreakForNews. He just left too many bread crumbs. And how is Leo Laporte gonna appreciate being associated with this person? They both deserve the upmost of scrutiny into their internet and off-line activities.}


This question demonstrates a complete and dangerous lack of understanding of our system of government. Individual's rights are inalienable (God given). Hence unlimited and unchangeable both other people. The question should be, "what powers do the people wish to grant the government in order to protect individual's inalienable rights from citizen journalists?" The gov't was established to "protect" individuals' inalienable rights! It is imperative that Current's viewers understand these critical distinctions.
{on edit- ouch. the link is broken. Hertzberg can win these minor battles, but he can't win the blog war when it comes to the truth. But wait. There is alway's hope. This quote is going to stay put!}

Let's take a look at that domain.


Hmmm. Same town Hertzberg is in. But that's not proof of anything. Is Hertzberg gonna get away with this particular scrub job? No. I have taken a screen shot from a yahoo search page that shows I did not make up that quote. What this does show is that Steven Hertzberg is scrambling, when he should just come clean. Is the money worth more than your dignity, Steven "Navari" Hertzberg?






That was from doing yahoo searches with the words I quoted plus stevenstevensteven. If you go to the links, you end up at stevenstevensteven's homepage. What I have just put up speaks for itself. He is hiding like a little baby while history is asking him to repent and whistleblow all he knows. It's over Hertzberg. The truth's out. You were so arogant, you never saw this coming. It's your choice now Hertzberg- to continue to whitewash those 2004 elections and write anonymous crazy posts on the internet, such as with a "Navari/stevenstevensteven," or to come clean and rejoin the human race. The money can't be that good.

Another website, another video plug for Ron Paul


There ain't nothing anonymous about this chump any longer.

A basic whois for that website:
Website Title: Policlicks.Com LLC
Related Sites:
Registrant Search: "Ross Myers" owns at least 16 other domains
Registrant: Ross Myers

Yeah, I know, what does it all mean, Basil?

I wonder if "Navari" is also someone at Progressive Independent. "Tinoire" certainly has shown a fondness for Ron Paul and Michael Rivero of WRH. Surely, he must be at that stupid forum also. I wonder if he is a full-time astroturfer.

This dude might have to change his underwear when he realises how exposed he has become.

Political Candidate Web Site


More bids at the link. This isn't a bizarre story worthy of Olbermann's time?

Maybe some of these folks can help fill us in on stuff

Flickr Friends:

louis, charles, mississippi, steven, katrina, st, bay, hertzberg, stevenstevensteven

Hertzberg? stevenstevensteven? Sock puppets anyone?

Oops. Deleted. Scrubbed. Pruned. Whatever. I don't make things up. I also blog for free.
Can Steven Hertzberg say the same thing?


There's a Whole World to Astroturf
Information War
動画: 2695 | メンバー: 885 | ディスカッション: 94
Videos from the Alternative Truth Movement.

メンバー登録: 2006年03月20日
動画: 3

Hertzberg is a Gun Lover? Should Anyone be Surprised?

Can you say, 2nd Amendment

U.S. Constitution
Amendment II

A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Some places like Democratic Underground he can't scrub. I wonder why.
Could it be because Steven Hertzberg is a Republican and anything but partisan?

Google Search for Democratic Underground/StevenStevenSteven

Audit Schmaudit
....Auditing and recounting is a big waste of time. I certainly hope they have folks down there who know what they are doing, otherwise they'll spend a lot of time spinning their wheels.

Damschroder likely President of Ohio Association of Election Officials

Notice the last post by Hertzberg. He loves Damschroder and has been astroturfing for him, Ron Paul, and Lord knows who else.
stevenstevensteven (333 posts) Wed Feb-14-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. Good for Ohio

Damschroder is clearly the best candidate for the job. He's one of the smartest and most capable election official in the nation. He'll do more for election transparency and accountability than anyone else in Ohio. Election reformers who are able to remain objective and non-partisan should be supportive of this positive development.

Hertzberg Astroturfing for Someone Else

Maybe we should check this person out too then. Hertzberg has been revealed as being an astroturfer.
Folks that frequent this forum should know that Adele Eisner
has been leading the struggle for fair elections in Cuyahoga
and was instrumental, behind the scenes, in much of the
progress that has taken place. If you don't know Adele, her
blog with videos is at
I ran across a thread where Adele gave a link to some dirt on Steven Hertzberg, but that link no longer works. I never got to see it once. A quality of a gatekeeper is to act as if they are on our side, but in reality, they are blocking the entrance to truth and justice.

Woohoo, only two more links.

Autorank Defends Himself
I had two reasons for making the formerly obscure post that you now call attention too.

Why don't you read the DU Rules: "Do not "stalk" another member from one discussion thread to another. Do not follow someone into another thread to try to continue a disagreement you had elsewhere. Do not talk negatively about an individual in a thread where they are not participating. Do not post messages with the purpose of "calling out" another member or picking a fight with another member. Do not use your signature line to draw negative attention to another member of the board.

I posted the message on 08.16.06 and had reason to question ESI doing this report. See points 1 and 2 below. Points 1 and 2 were sufficient to question this and raise the question.

I was at the "We Count" Conference in Cleveland last month and really didn't hear much about your report. I did hear a lot from Richard Hayes Phillips: Ballot Tampering Charges in Ohio
Declaration or Richard Hayes Phillips
What a mess Ohio was in 2004


I just noted that your web page contains a memo to Ohio elections officials seemingly to apologize for anything negative the public might take about their conduct or the equipment used in your Ohio Report


ESI Memorandum to Ohio Election Officials

ESI had the privilege of working with several Ohio county election officials on this report. We were impressed by their professionalism and commitment to the integrity of the elections process. For this reason, we are concerned that the findings of this report have been misinterpreted and misreported. First and foremost, the ESI report is not an attack on the Diebold Accuvote TSX system. Indeed, the report findings include very positive reviews of the system from voters and booth workers.

Here is what I knew of ESI prior to the Cuyahoga report.

1) ESI has gone out of its way to support the legitimacy of 2004 by supporting the Edison-Mitofsky explanation of NEP discrepancies and the like. This is from ESI:

"Nearly all respondents said that they were comfortable using the voting equipment (95%) with only 5% saying that they did not feel comfortable using it." page 3 of the report."

ESI Brief - Analysis of the 2004 Ohio Exit Polls and Election Results (ESI Publication)

"Exit polls conducted for the national media on Election Day 2004 appeared to predict that Senator John Kerry would win Ohio. Had Kerry won Ohio, he would have won the Presidency. To some observers, the discrepancy between the polls and the results suggested that there was a problem at the core of the electoral mechanism: the counting and tabulation of votes after they were cast. The discrepancy gave rise to widespread accusations that votes were shifted from John Kerry to George W. Bush. ESI answers the question: do the exit polls in Ohio support the thesis of systematic error in the election system or election fraud? " What was the answer?

2004 Ohio Exit Polls and Election Results (ESI publication)

The attached presentation was delivered during the American Association of Public Opinion Researchers Plenary session on Saturday May 14, 2005 as part of a larger session on the 2004 exit polls, with Warren Mitofsky of Mitofsky Int'l and Kathy Frankovic of CBS News. Dr. Scheuren's analysis confirms pollster Warren Mitofsky’s assertion that the exit polls that put John Kerry ahead of George Bush in Ohio on Election Day 2004 do not necessarily indicate that there was fraud in the Ohio election.

2) ESI was dead wrong on it's assessment of 2004 in New Mexico:

17 Affidavits from Voters on Machine Problems

VoterAction.Org, winner of a series of legal victories in NM outlines the many problems in the state that had a negative impact on many minority voters.

The issue was first covered in depth here

The problems pointed out by Lowell Finley and John Boyd, the VoterAction attorneys, and agreed to by Judge Mathis resulted in Bill Richardson changing his opinion on the case and completely reversing his opposition to the suit:

From BuzzFlash.Com:

The sleeper issue of continued GOP one-party rule over America has been the issue of privatized voting machines. The issue first came to forefront in the 2000 election, when the Republicans stole the presidency over how the votes were counted.

Since then, things have only gotten more complicated and more ominous. There is a small but vocal movement to insist on ensuring that the counting of our votes is not outsourced, particularly when the counting software is not publicly disclosed and there is no paper trail.

New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, who served in the Clinton administration, gave hope to Americans who believe that every vote count should be publicly accessible. Last week, he signed a bill that will require the restoration of paper ballots in his state.

According to a New Mexico publication, "Richardson has said the new paper ballot system will provide more accountability to the election process and will give voters' confidence that their votes will be correctly recorded."

At a time when many states continue to "do business" with Diebold and other private electronic voting firms, Bill Richardson has provided hope that the will of the voters will be ensured.

For that, he merits this week's BuzzFlash "Wings of Justice Award."

That should answer your question.

Finally, a gatekeeper "invokes authority."
Keeping our eye on the Prize: Improving Election Systems
Topic url

Posted by stevenstevensteven on Thu Mar-10-05 09:34 PM

First let me say that I probably haven't posted to DU in over 2 years, but this issue certainly got my attention.

Second, let me say that I know both David Allen and Bev Harris.

Last, folks should know that I'm the founder of Votewatch, a group that was one of the first to understand that our election system was in trouble and needed help. However, we've chosen to stay in the background, avoid press attention, and focus on using science to analyze our elections, then to apply our findings to help improve the system. We're making progress, but it is slow.

With that introduction out of the way, I'm very concerned about what I'm reading in this thread. Not so much because of the specific fund raising incident raised here, but because of the impact this incident may have on our collective ability to improve an election system that drastically needs improving. I'm hopeful that the folks on DU who have so diligently followed this issue continue to support the overall goal of election reform, as we should not take our eye off the larger and much more important goal.

Election reform will be a long and tough road, and those on the front lines need the publics support. So, my appeal to DUers is to see this as nothing more than another bump in the road. To continue forward, and to work with election officials and those of us in the non-profit community to ensure that the 2006 and 2008 elections are better run than those in recent history.

Steven Hertzberg

Finally, to wrap this up, cointelpro is all about the infiltration of activist groups with the intention of disruption and perversion. Astroturfing is about attempts to create the illusion of grassroots social movements. It appears that we are looking at both scenarios in this case.

The main reason I ever signed up to BreakForNews was because a "Fintan Dunne" was arguing that the internet was full of fakes. That was something that made a lot of sense to me after going through the Rense and WRH stages of internet awareness. The other reason why I liked BFN was because it had the appearance of being a lefty blog, one full of anti-war progressives.

But then it just started to reek of astroturfing that global warming is a hoax. Not to get into that debate here, but how many lefty/progressives think that global warming is a hoax? Then when folks asked Fintan Dunne to back up his CIA fakes list with proof, he came up with squat. Recently it has turned out that BFN is hosted by Soft Layer Technologies out of Texas. Apparently Dunne has the abilty to monitor the members' e-mails and can edit at will. Not saying I know this for sure, but that whole friggin' place has become totally compromised.

Now the first time I came into contact with this insidious "Navari," it had to do with him making a mockery out of chemtrails, another common occurrence at that pit of a forum. I kept asking Dunne for his take on chemtrails. He'd never answer. I finally tracked down an audio he did on them. It turns out he is saying that chemtrails are a psy-op to scare the masses, you know, that we are being sprayed like bugs. But myself and many others have always made it clear what we think the main reasons are behind the aerosol dispersions, and I personally believe that it has mostly to do with Dr. Evil attempts to stem climate change and with the military environmental modification techniques.

Well, this guy "Ormond" came out saying chemtrails are real. But when others blasted me, and I responded with my Malcolm X, Ormond wrote that I was the problem.

It turns out that Ormond is posting at RonPaulonline. It also turns out that his avatar says he is a Goldwater Republican. WTF? I know that this id is Ormond, because Ormond shows up as the one making the edits on the post. Ormond had conveniently met Clifford Carnicom many years ago, when he says Cliffy did some freelance work on his computer. Long story short, this is as insidious as it gets. I am very grateful that these bozos have messed up in a big way. I am grateful to the few real people at BFN that figured out that Navari is Steven Hertzberg. These astroturfers might be able to bully us off of fake forums, but the one thing they can never do is change the truth. Thanks to all for having the patience to slog through this. I believe we need to find ways to get this info out to the masses. We shall see. Peace.
Last edited by socrates on 04 Nov 2007, 23:52, edited 5 times in total.

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 10 Sep 2007, 20:02 #5

Some new people have signed up the last couple days, a Mr. McNally and Banta. Both of them, like Don Smith and myself have posted a bit at BFN. Hopefully these folks can help us gain some clarity. I think the one thing that drew us to "Fintan Dunne" in the first place was this idea of internet fakery.

My own thinking right now is that "Dunne" is the strawman for this poignant idea. "Dunne" wrote a few posts after the recent Hertzberg controversy emerged, basically saying that "Navari" is Hertzberg and is affiliated with Election Science Institute. That is not good enough for me. "Dunne" has had plenty of time to clear up any misconceptions about his own credibility, whether about his own real ties to Hertzberg and how he landed an interview with Ron Paul to where the hell are his facts to back up that extensive list of "cia internet fakes."

I started a post at BFN yesterday. The problem with that place is that the real people are starting to figure all this crap out. Those folks simply have stopped posting or have tried to get the message out that something terribly wrong is going on. Yet, that is tough to do when there is such a pack of trolls dominating that place.

Steven Hertzberg: Exposed Astroturfer-This Is So Convoluted
This doesn't mean I am back here posting. I don't trust this place one bit. Obey Little said this place can edit our posts undetected. Yeah, I saw something fishy with my pm's. As in a new one was no longer new. Usually it says you have a new message or whatnot. Not here. A glitch? Just a coincidence it was a pm from Hugh Manatee, after I had warned him about the global warming denial being astroturfed all over this place? Is it a coincidence that Navari/Steven Hertzberg ended up at BFN? By the way, Hertzberg worked for the D.O.D. and "Ormond" is a Goldwater Republican.

So you gonna ban him for being a liar Fintan?

I thought this was a lefty/progressive place with an interest in internet psy-ops. Or is this a strawman for internet fakes? And continuity or fletcher or any sock puppet, you can save your bs, cause the ballgame is over, and you lost, thanks to Navari/Steven Hertzberg of ESI being a moron. Maybe Jerry Fletcher is Navari. Thanks obey little. You gave me shit for the chemtrails, but you done real good this time, and the word is getting out that Steven Hertzberg is an astroturfing fraud!

Much more at this link:

Steven Hertzberg Needs to be Investigated for Fraud {a link to this thread}

Hey Steven Hertzberg, you're such an asshat! hahahahahaha
Thanks for giving the truth about chemtrails a boost!
Did Karl Rove dock you some pay or what?
{then after the first troll showed up}

This thread's about Steven Hertzberg, not global warming. Most lefty/progressives believe in global warming. The point is the #'s denying it here don't add up. But you have anything to say about Steven Hertzberg of ESI? Too soon to come up with something good?

You gonna delete your posts like "DrewTerry" did on the right woos left thread? Are posts being altered here at BFN? This op has been fully exposed.

Ormond is a goldwater republican. Hahaha.

Hertzberg needs to fix his dumbass ronpaulonline website so ormond's name doesn't show up on that Pelosi thread. Or it's all probably been scrubbed or clean. Hertzberg/Navari is a major internet troll !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When Patrick signed up yesterday, I took a peek at some of his posts, and they looked good, kinda philosopher kingish like Don Smith. Please don't hate these people because they are smart. They don't seem at all arrogant or snobby to me.

Then I found a very interesting, yet long-winded thread on the concept of a rightwing, internet infiltration of the progressive movement.

Right woos Left

{on edit: McNally turned out to be a holocaust denier. That's covered elsewhere on this humble forum.}

Mr. McNally seemed to be making some great posts. The only problem is that "Drew Terry," an astroturfer for the Mayan calendar, went and pulled a cydoniaquest/duncan kunz. He went and deleted so many of his posts making the thread very difficult to follow.

This is my take. The astroturfing trolls want us to believe that there is no difference between right and left, none. That is their psychological operation. They want us all to just wallow in defeatism. They want us to go down rabbit holes. They do not want us to have freedom of association. They do not want major truths revealed.

Sometimes I'll try to get in touch with someone famous or with credentials on a topic, such as local meteorologists. Usually, there is no response. Yeah, Rosie O'Donnell did publish my question on the Dr. Evil chemical trails. Yeah, when I was a kid, a popular local reporter wrote back to me saying that Oswald was a lone gunman.

Yesterday, I wrote to Bev Harris of Black Box Voting. Anyone who has looked into the election reform probably has noticed that she has been swift boated. It is very difficult to figure out who we can trust. There is so much astroturfing going on in cyberspace, that this forum was started as a last resort. There is simply no way to combat the bs when on fake turf. How many have tried to figure out the Hertzbery/Dunne shit at BFN and have only gotten in return off-topic crap or some other type of obfuscation?

I will finish this post with the info I sent to Bev Harris. I figured she deserves to know that Steven Hertzberg of ESI has been playing a lot of games. She even got me thinking of an angle that had fallen off of my own troll radar. I am a lefty. I am no fan of Ron Paul. But maybe there are some good things about him. Maybe the astroturfing that Ron Paul is tinfoil has been done so that his good ideas aren't taken as seriously. Again, I do not like Ron Paul. But after corresponding with Bev Harris, I believe that Mr. Paul was tricked into doing an interview with "Fintan Dunne." And this was done as an attempt to discredit the anti-war movement and to deny clear thinking progressives and conservatives from truly joining forces to make this a better country and world.

Dear BBV,

I thought you'd be interested to know that Steven Hertzberg has been outed as being an internet astroturfer. He has been all over the place for Ron Paul, even putting money into developing websites. He also was posting a lot at a fringe conspiracy website called BreakForNews as "Navari." Strange, but true. I believe this is a big story, but I am a small time blogger who believe it or not is having my modest forum's placement on google manipulated.

I would post at your forum but am wary of revealing my real name. I have been going after some big names of late and don't want to reveal my identity if at all possible. I have made some posts recently at John Dean's website.

Thanks for your time and consideration, "socrates"

"Steven Hertzberg Needs to be Investigated for Fraud"
[link to this thread]

Fascinating. This is information I very much appreciate.
Better sent personally than posted on BBV.

Bev Harris
Founder - Black Box Voting

I just read what you've been looking into. If he appears to
be promoting Ron Paul, most likely he is infiltrating Ron Paul's
campaign. His modus operandi is to burrow in, pretend he's
working with a cause, then do his stuff. I have never been able
to locate any 990 tax form for Election Science Institute, which
is supposed to be public. has all the 900s of
nonprofits, and unless it appeared recently, it doesn't seem to exist.

Bev Harris
Founder - Black Box Voting

Dear Ms. Harris,

I am honored to have received direct correspondence from yourself.
Just so you know, I have two masters degrees and am not a "conspiracy
theorist." I also do not want you scared off by my advocating for
the cessation of "chemtrails." I am a real person, a poor one at that,
and I do not fabricate anything. My gut tells me that you are for real. :)

My background is in Social Theory. I believe that the internet has
become totally compromised. What we are seeing is a "right woos left"
operation. It is called astroturfing. E.G., Bev Harris becomes a
money grubber, an egoist. Election reform? Let's keep the costs
down. Paper ballots and audits? That's not the problem. Most are happy
with elections. There are some minor mistakes, but not enough to have
swung an election outcome. Yeah, that's the ticket!
{My Jon Lovitz impression, if you remember the SNL character who lied a lot}

Yes, this is an example of modern day cointelpro, where
social movement becomes an open target for all types of
trojan horses. I am not a big fan of Ron Paul, so I am not
so sure he is being taken advantage of. But it does appear that
once Hertzberg was outed at that crazy website, he did get
scared, and he did start scrubbing and deleting. It appears
that he does not want people to know about the Ron Paul
stuff. I find it very interesting that Hertzberg worked for
the Department of Defense. That must be why he took down, where his biography was located.

At the Democratic Underground, Hertzberg said
he was asking the hefty donors for permission to
reveal their names. Then he said the info would
come out anyways with the tax forms. For this info
not to be showing up tells me that he is deep into
the corruption or needs to be investigated. Why do
things never seem to get better? I think it is because
of all the disinfo being peddled.

What is his objective? I believe he is tied in with
very dark forces. I sense that he is the Karl Rove
of the Internet. Perhaps they are astroturfing
the Ron Paul and hyping websites like Rense and
Prison Planet, so a Fred Thompson or a Mitt Romney
becomes more "electable."

I think this should be big news, that Steven Hertzberg
is all over the internet promoting Ron Paul and posting
at obscure, tinfoil websites. But simply put, I am a
"nobody" from Massachusetts who just wants every friggin
vote counted. I sense this is a big story. But then it comes
down to who can we trust. Do you think we can publicize
this startling information that exposes Steven Hertzberg
as being an internet astroturfer? My gut tells me this is huge.
And there's tons of other stuff out there on this creep.

It's tough being a one man army. I believe in peace, love,
and understanding. I am tired of the social engineering.

Thanks for your time and consideration, "socrates"

n.b. I have been going after some big names like Bob Parsons
and Bob McCaw. I am like the guy from Network saying we all
need to go out to the window and yell out, we are sick and tired
of the corruption, and we are not going to take it any longer.

I am not so paranoid to think "they" will knock me off. But I
figure there are probably a lot of rednecks and spooks out there
who do not like me one bit. Peace.

Hi Ms. Harris,

I promise not to overwhelm you with e-mails, but after sleeping on it, I reconsidered the following that you wrote:

"I just read what you've been looking into. If he appears to be promoting Ron Paul, most likely he is infiltrating Ron Paul's campaign. His modus operandi is to burrow in, pretend he's working with a cause, then do his stuff."

Perhaps my leftist leanings clouded my answer. Perhaps Ron Paul hasn't a clue what this guy is really trying to do. If Steven Hertzberg is trying to discredit Ron Paul by tying him in with tinfoil websites, then maybe Hertzberg is the modern day equivalent of a cointelpro astroturfer.

How else to explain why Ron Paul would ever do an interview with "Fintan Dunne?"

So maybe that is what Hertzberg does. He presents himself as some non-profit player in the election reform movement. He tells a Ron Paul or someone like yourself to look at his VoteWatch or ESI or whatever he wants to call it. He gains people's confidence, only to insidiously do all he can to defeat their true objectives.

I do not believe everyone is involved in a conspiracy. Yes, there seems to be some ugliness behind Ron Paul, some kind of connection to the John Birch Society. Yet, maybe the good ideas that a Ron Paul has are dangerous to the status quo. So what was the solution to the ptb's? Yeah, let's make Ron Paul look like an Alex Jones/Mike Rivero hybrid wearing a tinfoil hat.

Ok. Peace and good luck to you. My gut tells me that you are for real and have also been a victim of some insidious, astroturfing campaign. Thanks for all your efforts in trying to make sure that every vote gets counted.


Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 11 Sep 2007, 01:37 #7

Banta wrote: I only found BFN in the last few months and when the Navari incident occurred, I've been monitoring the situation. I think the level of, as you say, astroturfers prevalent on various sites is very high and I appreciate what you're doing to try and figure it out further.
Hi, thanks. I signed up at BFN close to the time Fintan started his new place.

I think it is very important that real people monitor stuff like this. When it is the few real folks going up against a sea of fakes, it can be very alienating. This place was may41970's idea. We both could relate to the other dude's frustration with the abundance of trolls. We met in 2006 around the time the Netvocating/Rendon Group stories emerged. Then we simply applied such awareness to the forums we have read and posted at. This place was started because it felt like there was no forum anywhere to have the freedom to develop, research, and hash out these ideas.

From my understanding of what you've written, socrates, you're only trying to lay out your thought processes.
This guy Swampgas said I have a sociable way about me. Won't deny that. But I do think that I have been backing up my thought processes with actual data, links, etc.. But, yeah, I wouldn't disagree with your view on how I post. To me, this should all be about no hidden agendas.

... but I do want to as humbly say as possible that pointing to things like the numbers not adding up of people who don't believe in global warming at a "leftist" site can be somewhat alienating.
Just saying it doesn't matter whether global warming is a hoax or not. {well, of course it does, sorry for the paradox.} The point is that BFN has always portrayed itself as being a leftist, progressive blog. Most lefties believe that global warming is real. I haven't really gone toe to toe with anyone on this topic, never felt it necessary.

To me, the #'s at BFN defy the laws of statistics, just as the 2004 Ohio prez results defied the exit polls. Now it turns out that Ormond and Navari are Republican operatives, astroturfers, or whatever. No problem with that. I astroturf for lefties and peaceniks. The problem I have with all this is with the insidious nature. But, yes, maybe I am trying to do too much here. Fintan Dunne, Fintan Schmunne perhaps, compared to who the hell is this Steven Hertzberg. I ony mentioned the global warming because it is the most obvious anomaly at BFN.

It's an interesting thought and I know that it's only a speculation, but it certainly leaves you open an easy critique such as "we don't think in the left vs right mentality!" Which, actually, I think has some merit to it, simply because the left vs. right game in America doesn't take into account that the "center" in such discussion is actually located somewhere in the right!
That's ok. To me, it isn't speculation. Guess the reader can decide on this minor detail of the overall story. As for the right vs. left, I think that in reality the center is to the left, yet with the astroturfing, it is placed on the right.

... from my perspective, it would seem somewhat unlikely that the majority of posters at BFN or other similar sites are legit misinformation operatives and it's hard to see who is spreading disinformation on purpose and how many are simply misguided.
It can be discussed. I was reading through some BFN threads and have bookmarked a few examples where I think it is clear that some form of marketing is going on. But you are correct, imho, that it is very difficult to tell who is an astroturfer from who is the useful idiot. Unless, of course, the name is Steven Hertzberg of ESI!

There is a poster at Chemtroll Central known as "Lou Aubuchont." While he seems to be a cointelpro-like agent, there is no way to prove that over whether he is the useful idiot. Then it can become speculative.
You're familiar with COINTELPRO, so you know the way it works.
Know a bit, wouldn't say all that much. My rule for reading at forums has always been to wonder if a person's posts are organic. Are there questions that they dodge? Are there certain posters that they attack a bit too much? Then I try to figure out the why's.

I guess my overall point is if you go around saying generalizations like "there's a pack of trolls!" without the evidence to back it up, the very people who would listen will eventually tune it out. It's a very difficult thing to make people understand that their "heroes" (for lack of a better word) don't have their best interests in mind.
Anyone who considers Steven Hertzberg or "Fintan Dunne" a hero is not someone worth trying to reach. Perhaps if they are new to their acts, then yes, I see your point. May41970 was taken in by Mike Rivero. I was taken in by "Fintan Dunne." Yeah, some other good posters helped me to break loose from the appearance that "Dunne" had made major breakthroughs. I am grateful to those folks who looked out for me. They could see I was real, so they helped to point people like myself towards using critical thinking.
Fortunately, the people at BFN have already witnessed the Navari thing, so that helps.
I don't think BFN can recover. The trust is completely gone. The same thing happened to DailyKos and the Democratic Underground. The genie can never be put back into the bottle. If you saw Little Nicky, then you know how hard it is to trap someone into a flask.


Hopefully, this doesn't come off as too critical, I just wanted to chime in with my two cents.
No problem. Thanks for trying to figure it out.

Ok. Here are a few bookmarks I came up with earlier today from reading through some BFN. The only problem, though, with this is that we are simply gonna be looking at usernames. I think that is worthwhile. But none of it to me will ever be as satisfying as discovering that Steven Hertzberg/Navari, some punk who bullied me and many others at BFN, has so brutally exposed himself as being a hack. The only question left for me is how are we supposed to expose the tinfoil by association when all these disinfo people are hiding behind proxies. If a newspaper, magazine, or t.v. station, e.g., publishes or broadcasts something, we know exactly where they are coming from. The only way the new wave of internet cointelpro will be stopped is with congressional or legal action.

*** A Few Examples ***
{I do realise these can be seen as being conjecture. So be it.}

Right woos Left

Check out how "Drew Terry" deleted so many of his posts about a month after writing them. To me, that is what disinfo agents do. And this was done on a specific thread with a powerful idea that has been reaching critical mass.

I'll just copy and paste some from the cia rats thread. To me, BFN is a major rabbit hole, and here and there real people have been able to drop hints for the trustful like me that the place wasn't organic. To be honest, it usually takes me about a month or two to figure out if a place is disinfo. Then, unfortunately, I always stick around trying to help newbies and those on the fence, same as others have done for me. Again, I admit that some of this is speculation. Just trying to utilise C. Wright Mills' idea of the "sociological imagination." This is social science, this is a whole different battleground than say mathematics, where we know for sure that 2+2=4. That being said, however, I have developed a disdain for the use of the "enigma." In criminal court, there has to be no shred of doubt. But in civil court one only has to prove 51% to win the case. Not saying that 51% is that good, just saying that sometimes we have to shit or get off the toilet. Sorry for that graphic. :oops:

Uncovered: The Rat's Nest of 9/11
Rumpl4skn: "The majority of those involved in the Truth Movement - even those near the top of the chain of command of the various entities - are sincere about their intentions, and have no idea how badly the situation is being manhandled and coerced."

{my interpretation: cointelpro, cointelschmo-- that most people are simply useful idiots. Well, yeah, it's gonna seem that way if we are on the internet a lot and that idea keeps getting pounded into our heads.}


Continuity: "p7kmlk - your post appears to make no sense, whatsoever.

Maybe if you shouted a bit louder? :wink: "

{my interpretation: yeah, take the caps off, but also, what a great, friggin post. "Continuity" is one of the many gatekeepers of BFN. That post hit a raw nerve with BFN.}

Dale: "why does Fintan talk like he is an American? When he is Irish! He is NOT American! So why does he say "we this, we that" when he is discussing American politics?"

{my interpretation- good question, a lot of times fakes reveal themselves at some point. Then when they know it is over and realise there is nothing left to lose, that it is all gone, they figure, ok, if everyone knows we are fakes, we might as well get our disinfo money's worth}

continuity: "I would venture to say that he says 'we' as in humanity, Dale, and not just 'Americans'.

And he doesn't talk like an American, he talks like the majority of Irish people I have met.

You'll be asking why he sounds like a Valley Girl next."

dale: "What I actually said was:

"why does Fintan talk like he is an American?"

And I didn't mean his accent for godsake! Of course he sounds Irish!!!! I don't think when he said "we lost the election" (or however he put it when he was referring to the 2004 American elections) and other comments about American politics and politicians, that he was referring to all humanity. He was referring to Americans. I don't understand why."

Rumpl4skn: "I would say that Fintan's comments regarding "we" in regards to U.S. political elections is a reference to his standing as a basic Liberal or Leftist."

{my interpretation- Rumple and continuity are part of a pack of trolls at BFN which used to include Ormond {Dan Butler?} and Navari {Steven Hertzberg}, imho!}

Sorry for this long-winded post. I did appreciate the feedback, as you can see how you motivated myself to expand and admit that there is a fine line between fact and speculation. But I refuse to think that everything is an "enigma." A lot of dirt has been uncovered on Steven Hertzberg, who some argue has been shilling for those behind the election fraud for many years. Now we see how he is involved with some crazy tinfoil place like BFN and with all that shit astroturfing for Ron Paul. The question left is has Hertzberg been working to make Ron Paul look extreme. I have noticed an inorganic movement behind Ron Paul.

There is a story to this. Unfortunately we seem to need to speculate a bit, yet perhaps not all that much considering all the crumbs Hertzberg has left behind. DailyKos worked for the CIA. Steven Hertzberg worked for the Dept. of Defense. It is quite telling how Hertzberg bailed out of BFN very quickly and went on to start scrubbing and deleting. He clearly did not want to be exposed at BFN. I figure this has to do with his extensive astroturfing "supporting" Ron Paul.

Here are a few other links from this forum where Fintan Dunne and Hertzberg were mentioned in posts. Again, sorry for writing so much here. It's tough for me to turn it off once I get started.

Thank you very much for not letting this story be buried. I wrote a pm to yoyos also. He, like yourself, and me and many others, were stunned about this Navari/Hertzberg shit, and yes, he reeks bad whether it's with his ESI, his posts as "Navari," or with his crazy running around in support of Ron Paul.

scroll down to the second half of this post

scroll half way down this post too

Here one can see the googled cache from that thread "Kathy" deleted. Funny thing is when you go to the cache link, an error message appears from "The Fintan Dunne" forum. Usually when I see a cache mysteriously disappear, there is a google error page. It's as if Fintan himself had the google cache deleted.

Now why did Fintan ban "Navari?" Now it is very difficult to find Hertzberg's BFN posts. When people have been banned here, I simply turned their active button off, so anyone can still search out those folks' exact posts, which I have never and will never edit.

{on edit- I like a clean member's list. It's better to have a real number than to pad the #'s like most other forums do.}

{on edit- The next couple links were lost during the upgrade to v.3. Sorry for any inconvenience.

We really are vulnerable to falling for what we want to hear with controlled opposition. We usually trust those who are kindred spirits on the surface.

Code: Select all

http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freefo ... ?p=444#444
{On the idea of how we are vulnerable to falling for disinfo at first.}

Code: Select all

http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freefo ... ?p=426#426
I am pretty much done being Fintan Dunne Jr.. I realise it is the chemtrails that are the biggest problem, not "Lou Aubuchont." Yet, I have also thought that Fintan Dunne was put in place to usurp any authentic research into astroturfing. There's some wierd stuff going on there. That guy Navari, I always felt he was a plant. Just too aggressive. Same with a lot of them. Even Ormond. He wrote about how he met Cliff Carnicom years ago. Just too many damn coincidences. That Jerry Fletcher guy. If you google that name, it's got a wierd message in itself about people who believe in "conspiracy theories." I did find a google cache of "Wag the World," that Navari guy is supposely a steven hertzberg, not sure of speeling, but can find it for you. Turns out he is involved with election counting somehow.

Again, sorry this one went on a bit. Sincerely.
Last edited by socrates on 28 Oct 2007, 04:51, edited 1 time in total.

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 11 Sep 2007, 06:15 #9

Banta wrote: I'm actually sort of surprised that you approved me so quickly, since you don't really know me from a hole in the wall...
I just don't want any tinfoil or anything too out there. Chemtrails are so real it's ridiculous. They were proven in the main section of this forum. This is not about a belief system. It is about facts and evidence. The only reason people don't think chemtrails are real is because of the internet.

Hopefully we can focus in more on the Hertzberg situation, or perhaps he's pretty much toast at this point. So apologies to anyone out there looking for more info on ESI, voter fraud, Hertzberg, Ron Paul, etc., sorry, time for this to go to press. I am just a dude from Massachusetts.

I don't really have the time to research everyone who signs up. On about four occasions I have deleted usernames never activated. And a few others I deleted because they never posted once. There is one free forums account, some banned, it is what it is. But yeah, if someone here ever posts anything crazy somewhere else, it's not my fault if I don't know about it. It's one of the few rules here, no tinfoil, unless it can be backed up and is only considered tinfoil by uptight reactionaries. The other rule is be nice to the "chemmies."

Right and it is interesting (but in the larger sense, not really important specifically, but gives you something to work off of). The only thing that I was saying is that when you're dealing with people who fancy themselves to be freethinkers, trying to put them into a box is only going to serve to discredit your larger, more provable points.

Global Warming denial is a big issue. It just isn't that big an issue when discussing Steven Hertzberg. With him, we need to figure out if he is a cointelpro agent. We need to figure out who backed ESI. We need to know why he is involved with tinfoil websites. We need to know how much he has been involved in covering up election fraud. That is where this thread should go, imho.

Ok. Here's another rule for this website. No Global Warming Denial. If we don't shove it in anyone's face how real global warming is, then any deniers should just keep that to themselves. I refuse to accomodate the status quo for any longer. This might be a small dot in the internet universe, but there have to be these basic rules.

There is no philosophy needed at this forum. Freedom of expression is fine, but we need to keep it real. A lot of these "free thinkers" are fakes. Hate to say it, but to deny global warming is a sign of ignorance.
Can you expand on that a little bit? I think I know what you're saying, but I might be misunderstanding your usage of the word "reality" in this context.
Reality is outside tvland, computers, whatnot. Astroturfing is the creation of false, grassroot movements. In reality, most people want all schools equal, same with housing, health care. The reality is that we are a very liberal country astroturfed as being a conservative one. This is why the fockers have to steal elections and get hacks like Steven Hertzberg of ESI to lie against the merits of exit polls. These fockers are ALL over the internet. When the pockets of awareness get too big, they just go the googler. And in reality, most people are not like us caught up in the blogosphere. Most people might check email, look at sports. Just look at how Ormond turned out to be a fascist. That's fairly sick for right wing pigs to have to stoop that low. What about DailyCIAKos? What an ass. Who the hell does that guy think he is fooling now?

These creeps are all about hidden agendas, astroturfing, and mind games. In a truly kinder and gentler world, Kucinich would be President and the Shrub would be unknown. If every vote were counted, and the media was a noble profession, the world would be perfect.

The only question I have, and I know this is purely subjective, but it was raised to me in a thread at BFN and I didn't really have a great answer for it.

Do you think that BFN is really a big enough site to justify massive attention from the astroturfing crowd? My response in the thread was "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure", but I do admit, it's not exactly a huge hub.
The astroturfing is everywhere. The key to all this is the Ron Paul interview with "Fintan Dunne." I think Steven Hertzberg is part of an astroturfing network that spreads tinfoil by association and all that right woos left kind of crap many are now aware of. The funny part is that he is the Director of ESI. This is a huge story, and "Fintan Dunne" could only say that the "op" was blown too soon. WTF did he mean by that? Maybe it was like The Riddler in Batman giving out his final retort to the aware, as in, well played Mr. Bond, well played. Something in me says that these right wing bastards still can tip the cap to us amateur sleuths when we catch some good fish. BFN wasn't supposed to implode so soon. Now word will get around to Ron Paul, etc. what has been going on.

A bigger hub is the Rigorous Intuition forums and there's little doubt in my mind that something stinks there. Have you looked over there yet?

That is a pit. I'd rather not go there. Been there, done that.

Joined: 12 May 2007, 00:58

Unread post 02 Oct 2007, 21:03 #10

{on edit- The following used to be housed in a section called The Public Forum, in which guests could make posts, start threads, etc.. Yet, due to excessive trolling attempts and the lack of real people making posts, that section has been deleted and all the threads in that area have been moved to various parts of this forum.

while there are some chemtrail materials posted at the beginning, most of this thread pertains to info concerning Steven Hertzberg/Navari of the Election Science Institute, someone who has been astroturfing for Ron Paul, something odd called full spectrum liberty, and the idea that exit polls aren't worth a hill of beans.

This part of the forum is now open for those who would like to post without having to register.
Offensive posts and trolling will not be tolerated. This is not a fight club. Dialogue is expected
to be civilised. Debate fairly, and all will be good.
Last edited by socrates on 22 Nov 2007, 01:24, edited 4 times in total.